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1.1 delay... impact on progression guilds


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Dear Friends,

 

Before I get flamed by people, please understand this is our opinion and the intended audience are people that are interested in progression raiding.

With the news of 1.1 getting delayed "by a few days" I feel now is the time to share our feelings on end game progression with SW:TOR. NA and other guilds have invested a lot of time into SW:TOR, and I believe many of us felt that 1.1 would be the first true progression worthy content patch. (You can also read more of our thoughts on end-game content and SW:TOR in general http://corellianrun.com/2012/01/16/guild-checkpoint-27/#more-9997)

 

Due to SW:TOR release including numerous leveling bugs, early access, and different start dates for different people, we felt that 1.1 would provide the first equal opportunity for guilds that wish to compete in end game progress could. We now find ourselves in the position of BioWare/EA deciding to screw things up.

 

Weekly maintenance / patches mean nothing if they're constantly delayed and pushed back to a new random date. Being told for the past 2 weeks in a row now that patches would come out Tuesday, only to learn later they wouldn't be coming out until Thursday (or later) is a serious issue that BioWare needs to re-think. If a patch isn't ready, then you probably shouldn't announce to everyone that it will be released. To add to this point, if it's not going to be released on a Tuesday, then wait until the next scheduled maintenance (the following Tuesday) to release it.

 

Having these random releases for patches is yet again screwing over the end game progression community. Speaking for ourselves, we set our raid schedule around patches being deployed on Tuesday, which gives us most of the week to progress. IF it's released on Thursday, you're now going to force us to raid over the weekend just to remain competitive.

 

While I understand that some might feel "why not just shut up and raid over the weekend if you care this much about progression" I hope those people try to see why this is an issue. Running a high end raiding guild is a lot of work, and adhering to a schedule is something that is needed for stability. Bioware/EA changing the rules and releasing content patches whenever they feel really needs to be re-thinked... if they care about the end game raiding community at all.

 

Finally, the fact that SW:TOR doesn't currently offer character transfer, or pre-made level 50's to test end game content on the PTR speaks volumes to us. I remember multiple times when other MMOs would offer pre-mades with gear so people could test end game content. We hope that we don't see the issues we saw in 1.0, but given no one really tested it on the PTR we're not holding our breath.

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"why not just shut up and raid over the weekend if you care this much about progression"

 

I should imagine a lot of people will quote you on that ^^ it pretty much sums it up.

 

Everyone who runs operations wanted the patch today, and if you are dead serious about progresison then you will do whatever it takes.

 

However this isn't WoW - we don't have wowprogress, achievements or armory and the content is so buggy your really fighting bugs more than bosses most of the time. I don't see how you can hope to compare with other guilds anyway.

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I have to admit i just mentioned the inconsistancy with regards to patching days in a different post... its very annoying... i dont even raid yet (waiting for people to get to 50 :() but i can see how this would be worse if i was raiding.
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"Progression" Raiding in this game currently makes up what % of their revenue stream? When you find the answer to that, you will then know the amount of effort Bioware will put in to addressing your complaint.

 

This game was designed and marketed to casuals who wanted the story and the immersion. I find it odd that all of the people who fall into your "progression raiding" niche still haven't understood that. Maybe I overestimated your intelligence.

 

Regards,

KK

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would you rather have a repeat of Ulduar?

 

Horrible black holes and mega bugs, character eating zones due to an untested patch? No thank you.

 

The game has only been out for a month now. There's still an enormous amount of bugs (nothing out of the ordinary for a game this size) that need to be discovered and fixed. Adding an untested content update, with known bugs (which they stated in their note to everyone) would only compound problems.

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So it takes a few more days to make sure the patch comes out without more bugs, good I prefer they release it without the bugs in it then to try and keep an exact release date.

 

All I read in the forums during Sep-Nov was how all the players just wanted the game to come out and how they would live with whatever bugs it had, now that there playing all I hear is the QQ'ing about bugs...

Edited by Monoth
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What does it matter to 99% of the population if the patch is released on a random day because you can't be "competitive"?

 

You get nothing special for being OMG FIRSTIES to kill a boss or clear a zone. In fact you're screwing yourself because now for the next 3 months your type will probably complain about the lack of content.

 

Basically what I'm saying is Bioware doesn't care about server first or world first, the majority of the playerbase doesn't care about server or world firsts, so deal with what you're given and don't expect a special heads up on content or patch times, if you want to be competitive then be competitive and ready to go always, if not...stop crying and pretending your special.

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Why is it so hard to understand that this kinda thing happens. they said they would release the major content when they did because i'm sure up until just the other day most likely everything looked fine. then i'm sure at the last moment someone found a very bad,possibly game breaking bug. i'm sure they didn't want to push back the release but they would probably rather make sure it works right then piss a bunch more people off when the patch does go live. so in other words grow up, and think for a second that S*** happens and we can't forecast the future. final note, 20 bucks says you've got lots of people in your "progression guild" that still need help with dailies and getting geared to even start serious raiding maybe not even ready to do the hardmode flashpoints, so stop being a whiny little girl and do something else. BFD.
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I would much rather have them get issues fixed now and have the patch postponed.

 

Yeah, not sure if this is what you meant, but it'd be nice to see a "bug fix" patch for the Ops issues (especially HM/NMM Soa) today, and then roll out the rest of the 1.1 content at a later date. We needed the ops fixes today more than anything else.

 

I don't really see much of a point in adding bosses to Karagga's Palace when most average guilds can't even kill Soa and Bonethrasher on HM due to a combination of bugs with the encounters, bugs preventing the gearing up process off the killable bosses, and generally inconsistent tuning.

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Can you imagine the OVERWHELMING UPROAR that would have resulted if this patch had come out today with the known bugs? They made the correct decision to postpone this update, and I am very happy that BW had the guts to do it. Too many games would have released this update and then announced the upcoming bug fixes.

 

Of course we are all disappointed that the update is not here yet, and I was really looking foreward to it, but I will happily wait the "few days" needed for BW to fix the problem before it is released.

 

I am not a fanboi, just a player that tries to appreciate the decision to delay a known buggy update untill it is fixed.

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No kidding Bioware really needs to fix the way they are fixing things. Maybe they could release an internal patch for their patching system??

 

I get that its nice to have a schedule. It's also nice to not implement things until they are working properly. You are right that they shouldn't even announce a date until they have everything squared away and ready to go. But personally, I would rather have the patch on Thursday rather than on next Tuesday, even if that means another guild that can raid on the weekends might get ahead of your guild that was planning to do it on Tuesday and Wednesday.

 

I assure you, your life will go on, and you will still be able to raid next week just like you would if they delayed it a full week. Even if some other guild got to do it before you on Saturday night (OMG NOOOO!!!!)

 

BW's biggest mistake was making the leveling process too easy and fast. Too many people were level 50 within days of the release date (or even before its realease date with early access), expecting a MMO in its infancy to be as fully polished and perfect in its endgame as another one that has had 7 years and billions of dollars to set the standard.

 

They are fixing things. They aren't always going to do it on a schedule that is perfect for you. Get over it.

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Bugs come up... rather than releasing a patch with more bugs than it fixes- like WoW regularly does- then have three days of sporadic downtimes- like WoW regularly does... they caught something, and intend to fix it first.

 

Is that really so hard to understand? That sometimes an unintended bug is found before it's released?

 

I know, I know, your rose tinted glasses have told you that 'game X' is spotless and bugfree- there are bugs on WoW that have been in for over a year- even today- some of which are extremely detrimental (pet spawn at 5% hp bug for example- renders hunters useless and to a degree hurts locks bad too)

 

Be thankful BW actually tries to fix bugs- AoC and WAR both didn't seem to give a care for theirs for months after release.

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I dont think delaying the patch is a big deal, and we wouldnt have noticed if they didnt told us about it.

 

I do think though, that if they delay a content patch like this, they should delay it till the next raid reset day where they have it ready, and not launch it between raid resets.

 

If i were BW, i would launch it on a tuesday.

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I would agree with you on the point that they should stick to a maintenance pattern in that I would rather they just wait till next tuesday, or whichever tuesday its ready, than having an extended downtime on a thursday. Apart from that though I think you need to chillax, I am a fan of progression guilds, but right now there is no progression even with 1.1 announced. Serious progression will only occur once bioware has the time to set out a schedule of "raid" content releases. Currently their priorities are bugs, legacy system, bugs, guild functionality, bugs, class balancing, bugs.... feel free to chime in if I miss something. Point of the matter being you need to recognize that operations alone are likely not a programming priority and progression even less so, and that you and your guild will need to content yourselves on the other aspects of the game until such time as BW can make raid progression a reality. The stories for some of the classes are good enough for me to keep leveling alts in the meantime, perhaps that would be a good avenue for your efforts, would make your ops groups more versatile.
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would you rather have a repeat of Ulduar?

 

Horrible black holes and mega bugs, character eating zones due to an untested patch? No thank you.

 

The game has only been out for a month now. There's still an enormous amount of bugs (nothing out of the ordinary for a game this size) that need to be discovered and fixed. Adding an untested content update, with known bugs (which they stated in their note to everyone) would only compound problems.

 

 

We can only hope that BW manages to do something even close to Ulduar, which for me its the best raid even in WOW, for inmersion and content, followed by BT, Kara and SSC.

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"Progression" Raiding in this game currently makes up what % of their revenue stream? When you find the answer to that, you will then know the amount of effort Bioware will put in to addressing your complaint.

 

This game was designed and marketed to casuals who wanted the story and the immersion. I find it odd that all of the people who fall into your "progression raiding" niche still haven't understood that. Maybe I overestimated your intelligence.

 

Regards,

KK

 

It fails harder at immersion with the stale world than it does with raiding, and the story is stock-adventure stuff. Your point kinda sucks.

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It fails harder at immersion with the stale world than it does with raiding, and the story is stock-adventure stuff. Your point kinda sucks.

 

Guess your space bar got a lot of use when you were leveling. And I never said they did a good job of it, I stated Bioware was targeting casual gamers with their marketing, not the 40 hour a week, hardcore raiding, epeen stroking, world first crowd that seem to be running rampant on these forums.

 

So no, my point is still valid.

 

Regards,

KK

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It's amazing to me how many people reply to this thread without really understanding the meaning.

 

1. How many people do you think tested the new operation and flashpoint on the PTR? (the answer is 0) so I fail to see how delaying this even 6 months from now would make that much better.

 

2. If they want to delay it, fine, delay it until next Tuesday.

 

3. Maybe 1% do make up the players that do end game progression style raids. Guess what though, those 1% are the same 1% that post videos and help generate interest in the game. I think many, many, people underestimate how important it is to have a strong end game progression community. Our MC videos had around 2-3 million views on youtube when they were released. So, re-think the whole "why appeal to 1%" attitude.

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3. Maybe 1% do make up the players that do end game progression style raids. Guess what though, those 1% are the same 1% that post videos and help generate interest in the game. I think many, many, people underestimate how important it is to have a strong end game progression community. Our MC videos had around 2-3 million views on youtube when they were released. So, re-think the whole "why appeal to 1%" attitude.

 

This might be the most self-important post I have ever seen on the forums. Congratulations.

 

Regards,

KK

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"Progression" Raiding in this game currently makes up what % of their revenue stream? When you find the answer to that, you will then know the amount of effort Bioware will put in to addressing your complaint.

 

 

If it doesn't concern them, it should. I'd gues that the majority of people who have played wow "since vanilla" are people primarily concerned with either end game PvP or PvE content.

 

We may not be the bulk of the current player base, but we're the ones that keep our subs going consistently, rather than playing for a month or 2, then dropping for 3 months, then coming back.

 

 

The pertinent expression is "one in the hand vs 2 in the bush".

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If it doesn't concern them, it should. I'd gues that the majority of people who have played wow "since vanilla" are people primarily concerned with either end game PvP or PvE content.

 

We may not be the bulk of the current player base, but we're the ones that keep our subs going consistently, rather than playing for a month or 2, then dropping for 3 months, then coming back.

 

 

The pertinent expression is "one in the hand vs 2 in the bush".

 

Right, you just explained WHY they shouldn't focus on catering to the 1% of the "hardcore." Many people sub for 1 or 2 months and leave, agreed. So maybe if they cater to them, instead of the 1% of the population that resubscribes consistently, they'll sub for months to come! Fact is, the uber hardcore progression raider is a sheep. They will consistently flock to the most juicy content and pay their subscription. Evidence: see every so called hardcore MMO released in the past 15 years.

Edited by Wuzseen
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It fails harder at immersion with the stale world than it does with raiding, and the story is stock-adventure stuff. Your point kinda sucks.

 

Subjective appreciation. I actually like the stories and with every single char i leveled i got inmersed in the story to the point of actually wanting to kill people or know more about others. So for me, not only didnt fail but actually delivered a lot more than any other MMO ever.

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