What the title says..

People pm me alot for questions on how to play different specs, how to beat classes in duels, etc... So I decided to start a thread where people can post their questions.

Ask away!

who are you?

That's my first one, yeah.

I'm a long time mmo player.

In wow I was sponsored (Europe-Cyclone) and made it to the top European teams.

Now I'm a long time battlemaster Sage, and I spend my time dueling Sith in Ilum and helping pvp players up their game. Since I've been getting alot of pm's and been spending a lot of time training people win 1v1's, I thought I'd help out by answering in the forums here, so that I can reach more people.

What mods are you using post 1.1.3?

I will ask it again.

What mods are you using post 1.1.3?

Until 290 surge I use crit/surge, after that point I use power/alacrity.

It's a toss-up. I'm not too happy about losing important crit value, on the other hand the surge DR becomes so big that I feel you just can't justify spending more into it.

Luckily we have force potency [3 stacks with stalker pvp armor FTW] which I use every 1.15 mins, so I don't feel the loss of crit THAT much. The increased power and a little faster pebbles/benevolence make it so that you don't feel it that much.

In the end, it makes our bubble last a bit longer too, other classes suffer more.

You can easily get those mods from champion pvp gear, just go to the vendors, they are usually in boots/gloves.

Until 290 surge I use crit/surge, after that point I use power/alacrity.

290 is bit high up the new surge diminishing return curve, low to mid 200s seems to be more efficient. (i.e. at 230 surge, you get roughly 22.73% bonus, at 290 you only get 24.98%, thats 60 surge which is likely an additional 2 mods for just 2% bonus).

For DPS Sages Willpower > Power > Everything Else

So WP is still by far are most powerful stat, so all mods, armors, should be using the Resolve mods.

For DPS sages, for enhancements, I would be balancing...

http://www.torhead.com/item/dyXw8Xh/advanced-adept-enhancement-25

Edit: I have was informed the Reflective Enhancement is not in the game any longer.

It's kind of obvious that everyone would place those reflective enhancements in a heartbeat were they actually in game ;>

Allthough on paper and in schematics power gives the most added benifit, I think end game is all about fast paced encounters and big bursts. If you swap more surge, you also swap more crit (because right now all good players had surge/crit in their pvp gear). I'm unwilling to trade more power for less crit.

290 is bit high up the new surge diminishing return curve, low to mid 200s seems to be more efficient. (i.e. at 230 surge, you get roughly 22.73% bonus, at 290 you only get 24.98%, thats 60 surge which is likely an additional 2 mods for just 2% bonus).

 

For DPS Sages Willpower > Power > Everything Else

So WP is still by far are most powerful stat, so all mods, armors, should be using the Resolve mods.

 

For DPS sages, for enhancements, I would be balancing...

http://www.torhead.com/item/dyXw8Xh/advanced-adept-enhancement-25

 

and

 

http://www.torhead.com/item/2ON9qgN/advanced-reflective-enhancement-25

 

(if you can find the reflective enhancement in game)

Yea but that's kind of misinformation. I could make the same claim about 100 Surge being more efficienct than 200... There's no perfect point, it's all gear dependent. Similarly the claim that "oh you only gain 2 more percent for 60 Surge rating" doesn't mean anything without context either... By comparison, crit rating at that level (230-290) would still give you a worse percentage gain for the same rating amount.

So yes prior to 200 Surge gains in leaps and bounds, but only late in the 200's will it really catch up to the other stats (beyond which it's finally worse than the others) in terms of value added. Also, no reflective does not exist anymore.

Allthough on paper and in schematics power gives the most added benifit, I think end game is all about fast paced encounters and big bursts. If you swap more surge, you also swap more crit (because right now all good players had surge/crit in their pvp gear). I'm unwilling to trade more power for less crit.

That is fine, but that is a personal preference in playstyle, my guess most in the theorycrafting community would probably disagree, and rely upon the consistent throughput of Power over praying to the RNG gods for the big crits. Depending on how high up you are already up the DR crit/surge curves, any additional crit/surge is wasteful compared to proportional increases in Power. Right now, the law of averages does put Power ahead of crit and surge, primarily because Power scaling is linear and doesn't have a diminishing return, so you can stack Power and get reliably consistent performance.

Given the choice between being barely alive, but killed by opponent in two encounters, versus trouncing my opponent one time and dead the next time, I will always pick the former.

Power is favored almost as heavily as Willpower:

Crit Alacrity Power Force_Power Willpower Surge

0.5951 0.3052 0.9106 0.9111 1.0000 0.7759

http://www.simulationcraft.org/swtor/113/Sage_Sorcerer_113.html

Still..

Your item choises are:

LOSING CRIT + SURGE

for

POWER + Alacrity

At a high level sure, I'm willing to ditch those 2 stats [cse previous I was at 400 surge].

But right now losing both crit and surge for some power, no ty.

So yes prior to 200 Surge gains in leaps and bounds, but only late in the 200's will it really catch up to the other stats (beyond which it's finally worse than the others) in terms of value added. Also, no reflective does not exist anymore.

Thanks, I didn't know reflective wasn't in game anymore. I'd really like to see the math behind that because the spreadsheet analysis I have done doesn't justify going that high up the DR curve.

290 is bit high up the new surge diminishing return curve, low to mid 200s seems to be more efficient. (i.e. at 230 surge, you get roughly 22.73% bonus, at 290 you only get 24.98%, thats 60 surge which is likely an additional 2 mods for just 2% bonus).

 

For DPS Sages Willpower > Power > Everything Else

So WP is still by far are most powerful stat, so all mods, armors, should be using the Resolve mods.

 

For DPS sages, for enhancements, I would be balancing...

http://www.torhead.com/item/dyXw8Xh/advanced-adept-enhancement-25

 

and

 

http://www.torhead.com/item/2ON9qgN/advanced-reflective-enhancement-25

 

(if you can find the reflective enhancement in game)

dang! so your saying for a level 44 DPS sage, I should be stacking power and surge? I just noticed most of the mods available to me now are critical and alacrity. should i be stacking power/surge instead?

dang! so your saying for a level 44 DPS sage, I should be stacking power and surge? I just noticed most of the mods available to me now are critical and alacrity. should i be stacking power/surge instead?

You should always stack power and your primary stat if its available.

Alacrity is garbage in this game. Why would you stack Power/Alacrity when you can use Power/Surge mods?

I don't care what the DR is on Surge, if you STACK all alacrity, you can get a 2.5s cast down to ~2.1 seconds. Wooo....

I bet if you dropped all your Alacrity mods, you would only see a drop of about .1-.2 seconds on Telekinetic throw. Getting more surge is vastly superior to that.

Bottom line is power trumps all. After power you want a decent crit rate (30-40% w/buffs is more than adequate) and then surge. Alacrity is a last resort.

Still..

 

Your item choises are:

 

LOSING CRIT + SURGE

 

for

 

POWER + Alacrity

 

At a high level sure, I'm willing to ditch those 2 stats [cse previous I was at 400 surge].

But right now losing both crit and surge for some power, no ty.

Although might want to consider the Adept enhancements, they are Power+Surge.

Again, you have to be cautious how far back down the DR curve you slide on Crit, but it is a far smoother curve than the new surge curve.

Either way, its a great discussion, and has me thinking about the math behind the calcuations.

dang! so your saying for a level 44 DPS sage, I should be stacking power and surge? I just noticed most of the mods available to me now are critical and alacrity. should i be stacking power/surge instead?

Most of the calculations I have done are based on level 50s, but generally yes. If you are running the Balance or Balance/Hybrid spec, most of our spells are instant cast and/or dot ticks, which Alacrity doesn't affect. Alacrity is near useless for these sages.

If you have the choice between Power/Alacrity and Power/Surge, definitely go Power/Surge.

You guys still don't get it. I'm trying to LOSE surge not gain it...

If you're like me and you're at 400 surge, only choise is downgrade to power/alacrity and by doing this you lose crit. So I wanna keep that to a minimum, hence the 290'ish.

thanks for the info guys/gals. I just feel like power wouldnt be a main stat of mine, but I am basing that on nothing other than an assumption. I was thinking power was for the dual saber guys that inflict more melee damage. once again, just a total assumption

so all the enhancements i bought last night are basically junk for me LOL o well

What spec do you play with and why?

I play the following specs for the following reasons:

a) 2-7-32 [balance, with the buffed healing, and -0.5s on diliverance]

I take this spec when I feel I want to solo people. Hands down this spec offers the highest chance to win 1v1 fights, or even 2v1, 3v1, as long as you're having a few dumb people who chase you, you'll let the dots do the work, and make smart use of short heals on your root.

b) 12-11 - 18

50% chance on 2 fast deliverances, instant force lift

I take this spec when I want to do damage, but there are not many healers playing. This way I can help out a group in need, and keep up with damage fairly high

c) 2- 21 - 18

Imo the best spec out there. Why? Offers great cc options [instant force lift, exploading bubble blind, root on wave, ...], with great damage. Personally I run 1/3 telek momentum. Because it's bugged, it procs about 30% of the time on telek wave, so it's a nice damage boost. Alternatively, you can go into mental alacrity, which is also very good. [i just don't like cd's very much]

d) cookie cutter healer 32-7-2

don't use this very much, unless I feel that my server really needs me to play healer. I prefer to leave the healing to the commando's out there, cse they can have 5 people on them and keep healing like it's a joke.

Hope this helps you a bit.

thanks for the info guys/gals. I just feel like power wouldnt be a main stat of mine, but I am basing that on nothing other than an assumption. I was thinking power was for the dual saber guys that inflict more melee damage. once again, just a total assumption

 

so all the enhancements i bought last night are basically junk for me LOL o well

Power affects everything. Bonus Dmg, Bonus Healing, regardless of dmg type. It's not specific to any one class and is useful to all classes. What is specific is Force Power, as it will only affect your Force Powers (at the same rate as plain Power). However as a Sage, there really is no distinction between Power/Force Power, as we're completely force based and never really use our saber.

Thanks, I didn't know reflective wasn't in game anymore. I'd really like to see the math behind that because the spreadsheet analysis I have done doesn't justify going that high up the DR curve.

Aye, it got removed along with Glancing.

I didn't really have to do any math. I just took the numbers you threw out for surge and did an eyeball comparison to the graphical representation of the crit DR curve on SW (Yes I know the surge curve on that graph is out of date, I didn't use it). At 200 crit rating it takes above 30 rating to equal another % gain in crit. That right there told me all I needed to know, as 60 more surge at 230 like you said still was adding 2%. It's definitely possible my ballpark estimate was off, but regardless it shows that even then surge is still gaining at roughly the same rate as other stats at that level of rating (meaning you can keep taking a little more). I'd be interested to see the exact math myself, but I'm too lazy to plug the numbers here at work.

You guys still don't get it. I'm trying to LOSE surge not gain it...

 

If you're like me and you're at 400 surge, only choise is downgrade to power/alacrity and by doing this you lose crit. So I wanna keep that to a minimum, hence the 290'ish.

I am with you. You are so far up the DR surge curve, you want to back down without falling off the crit DR curve too. The good news is the crit DR curve is much more gentle than the surge curve.

I would experiment with the theorycrafting scale factors which show the Adept (power/surge) enhancements have a greater combined dps/rating unit than the Battle enhancements. Yes you are losing crit, but crit you are loosing is possibly (likely?) less dps/unit than the power you back fill it with.

Unfortunately, without combat logs, all we are left with is pure theorycrafting and speculation. Good luck, it was a great discussion.

Still..

 

Your item choises are:

 

LOSING CRIT + SURGE

 

for

 

POWER + Alacrity

 

At a high level sure, I'm willing to ditch those 2 stats [cse previous I was at 400 surge].

But right now losing both crit and surge for some power, no ty.

There's a third option. Swap your crit/surge enhancements for crit/alacrity. The insight enhancements are actually littered all over the mystic/master pieces. You drop surge without hurting crit, but of course you don't gain power which would have been more desirable than alacrity. Such is the dilemma I guess.

Honestly I wish if Power/Crit isn't in BW's design intent that they would at least let us have a straight double power enhancement.