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Sin/Shadow 6.0 Changes


DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
09.15.2019 , 07:43 PM | #11
Oh god I can't believe I read this tripe.
1) Phantom Stride is better than Leap especially against Snipers in Cover.
2) Three Stuns that are useful in all different types of gameplay.
3) Self heals.
4) Stealth out of combat.
5) Stealth out of combat heals.

Them 5 things are good and especially in the right hands, Darkness is superior to Immortal if used correctly. A lot of people aren't skilled enough to use Darkness and prefer a trimmed down Tank e.g. Pulling a healer out their comfort zone to rolling them.

Instead of asking for nerfs, try playing these specs you're struggling against and find their weakness and use that to your advantage.

Lastly if you truly think Assassin isn't effective then move on, I still have a Fury main who I made at launch and never changed his spec, I remember being laughed at about how bad this spec was after the whole "Smash Monkey" stuff and I done fine. Ask for a buff with a true detailing on why instead of "Buff my class, Nerf theirs." exactly what I asked for when Fury wasn't performing well and they buffed it.

Side note: I would ask for an extra ability based on movement like a Dash with an animation like that from Darth Maul in Dice Battlefront 2, So you could close or increase the gap similar to that of Mad Dash.
Darth Malgus
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BurningGrim's Avatar


BurningGrim
09.17.2019 , 06:10 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by alexzk View Post
Hmm
Redirected Wrath Wither generates Redirected Wrath stacks per enemy it hits, increasing your damage reduction by 2.5% per stack for 10 seconds.

Damn, this is will be unkillable tank, trust me. Easy hold of 5-7 enemies as old good times.
But you have to use tank gear of coz, not current fashion all-dps.

I have such on my shadow - all balanced carefully, 2 dps items only. Wipes desception sin 1 vs 1. Can hold 3-4 dds.
With such ability will be able hold 5-7 dds.

I think having that, i can remove mastery which do "30% damage reduction when stunned" and use for something to boost dps of tank. I like it.


You understand that tanking a deception sin in a 1v1 isn't a hard thing to do right? given how bad of a spec it actually is..... specially given an experienced shadow/assassin tank is almost unstoppable lol...
This is for 6.0 and the changes they are making to every class but shadows...
Ash

BurningGrim's Avatar


BurningGrim
09.17.2019 , 06:18 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
Oh god I can't believe I read this tripe.
1) Phantom Stride is better than Leap especially against Snipers in Cover.
2) Three Stuns that are useful in all different types of gameplay.
3) Self heals.
4) Stealth out of combat.
5) Stealth out of combat heals.

Them 5 things are good and especially in the right hands, Darkness is superior to Immortal if used correctly. A lot of people aren't skilled enough to use Darkness and prefer a trimmed down Tank e.g. Pulling a healer out their comfort zone to rolling them.

Instead of asking for nerfs, try playing these specs you're struggling against and find their weakness and use that to your advantage.

Lastly if you truly think Assassin isn't effective then move on, I still have a Fury main who I made at launch and never changed his spec, I remember being laughed at about how bad this spec was after the whole "Smash Monkey" stuff and I done fine. Ask for a buff with a true detailing on why instead of "Buff my class, Nerf theirs." exactly what I asked for when Fury wasn't performing well and they buffed it.

Side note: I would ask for an extra ability based on movement like a Dash with an animation like that from Darth Maul in Dice Battlefront 2, So you could close or increase the gap similar to that of Mad Dash.

First off I wasn't asking for a nerf, I suggest you re-read it again.
second thing, this is for the changes they are making. not how it is currently.... so I again suggest you re-read it.
third thing, if you bothered to click the links and read through everything, jugs get, guardians get and sorcs. then read what shadows get you will understand.... that their is whole new playing field that the game devs arnt paying attention too.... Smash monkey never went away, maras/sents have always be strong. in the right situations... no matter how good you are as a shadow/sin you will. 9/10 struggle to beat any other class in the game.. unless your A on darth malgus fighting some mug whose played the game for like 3 days and used a token. our damage is less, our damage reduction is less. phantom stride spends more time glitching, then working. Lacerate/whirling blow does more damage then most of your Rotation, and backstab crits probably around 40% of the time.
Ash

Bird_of_Thunder's Avatar


Bird_of_Thunder
09.18.2019 , 12:41 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by RookStryfe View Post
First thing they need to do is remove the 2 stuns from most of the other classes.

Watching classes like jugg, mara, etc chain stun just makes me laugh.
Marauder only has one stun, whaaaat are you talking about
Drazir
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DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
09.18.2019 , 04:34 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by BurningGrim View Post
First off I wasn't asking for a nerf, I suggest you re-read it again.
You're comparing class/specs meaning you're using figures on your bias opinion that isn't impartial to rectify an outcome that benefits you the user as per se.

Quote: Originally Posted by BurningGrim View Post
second thing, this is for the changes they are making. not how it is currently.... so I again suggest you re-read it.
Let me reiterate the following finds that nothing is final, however when the final product is on the showcase than we will see however what I had stated does not change indefinitely as these perks the Assassin class has is the only class that has the unique perks in the realm of Tanking. However you can not compare Assassins directly alike to that of a Marauder, a Juggernaut or a Sorcerer. The closest in comparison would be that of an Operative however there is complications again.

Quote: Originally Posted by BurningGrim View Post
third thing, if you bothered to click the links and read through everything, jugs get, guardians get and sorcs. then read what shadows get you will understand.... that their is whole new playing field that the game devs arnt paying attention too....
You wrote the same argument twice without acknowledging that what we have seen isn't final. However what I did read I found interesting for me, I liked the extra components to Hatred and Darkness but I play them more than Deception however I found Fury to receive not a lot in terms of eye catching. Granted Juggernauts and Sorcerers did seem to get catered for but at the same time I can not see anything ground breaking, Numbers on PTS are not Final.



Quote: Originally Posted by BurningGrim View Post
Smash monkey never went away,
Smash Monkey went away when our spec was changed, however it didn't completely go waist side if anything got moved to Vengeance.

Quote: Originally Posted by BurningGrim View Post
maras/sents have always be strong. in the right situations... no matter how good you are as a shadow/sin you will. 9/10 struggle to beat any other class in the game.. unless your A on darth malgus fighting some mug whose played the game for like 3 days and used a token. our damage is less, our damage reduction is less. phantom stride spends more time glitching, then working. Lacerate/whirling blow does more damage then most of your Rotation, and backstab crits probably around 40% of the time.
Not for a complete DPS spec what have you been smoking? heck in 5.0 Deception was the Meta, 4.0 Mercs was the Meta, 3.0 Sorcerer was the Meta. When Marauders were Meta that was when they still had the skill tree system. Back when Fury was still called Rage. However Juggernaut Rage was part of that Meta as well making it a shared Meta.
Although lets talk experience on the matter that I am on Darth Malgus? Right like that draws any assumptions you can't even comment on what the Assassin class does have which I made a reply directly stating, also I forgot Mindtrap how great of an Ability this is. But let me go into further detail, You can not compare it to a DPS class if it is a hybrid class that shares abilities from that of it's counterpart, Marauder is a DPS class through and through, You can't compare accurately to Juggernauts or Sorcerers since they haven't got the exact mobility nor once they engage can they disengage. The closest comparison is an Operative which still you can not compare directly to, but what the Assassin class has got to offer is far more useful tool's especially in PvP every WZ from Voidstar to Huttball as well as Ranked. In PvP if you had known isn't about 1v1's so you must be playing a different game to me or you're just duelling your friends. But yes I am indeed a bad player.
Darth Malgus
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DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
09.18.2019 , 05:05 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Bird_of_Thunder View Post
Marauder only has one stun, whaaaat are you talking about
Exactly one hard stun and one mezz, our greatest stun in my opinion is tied behind the Utility Tree (Maiming Reach) which makes Crippling Slash a 3 second stun but usable every 10 seconds.

However they've mezzes, stuns basically the full works and yet they're still complaining?

Mindtrap - Mezz.
Whirlwind - Mezz.
Spike - Short duration stun.
Electrocute - Longer duration stun.
Low Slash - Short duration stun.

Utility - Hand of Darkness - Grants a stun effect to that Low Slash, Force Pull and Eradicate.

Darkness crumbles most when Stuns are in play, I always get the healer mob handed, Pull with stun out of their safe space, Spike is like a 15 seconds CD, it's the best class for crowd control and still will be in 6.0.
Darth Malgus
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RookStryfe's Avatar


RookStryfe
09.18.2019 , 07:41 PM | #17
Putting the same skills like stuns on every class turns the classes into generic trash.

They have taken many of the key abilities that used to be class specific and placed them on every class so now practically every class has stuns, force charges, heals, short term iwin dcd's, movement buffs and debuffs, etc.


Stuns belong on stun classes only.

Charges belong on warrior type classes.

Heals on heal classes.

Etc Etc Etc

Mara and most of the other classes should not be CC'ing. A 2 second stun on their charge is reasonable. An Aoe CC is stupid.

DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
09.18.2019 , 09:11 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by RookStryfe View Post
Putting the same skills like stuns on every class turns the classes into generic trash.
Nope that is an awful idea, CC wise Assassin holds the keys. Which I stated is brilliant for me.


Quote: Originally Posted by RookStryfe View Post
They have taken many of the key abilities that used to be class specific and placed them on every class so now practically every class has stuns, force charges, heals, short term iwin dcd's, movement buffs and debuffs, etc.
No, everyone has lost key abilities through the years I remember losing Disable Droid. So no you're not the only class to lose abilities nor was you the only ones to have stuns or mezzes, I remember Beta when Marauders had Force Push. CC's was never class specific and will never be since they're to control the crowd around you.


Quote: Originally Posted by RookStryfe View Post
Stuns belong on stun classes only.

Charges belong on warrior type classes.

Heals on heal classes.
There isn't a book that states what is and isn't a stun class, whilst this system was put in place to allow Hybrids and the likes of shared base classes that is traditional, we have already seen enough gutting of classes and specs without needing more.


Quote: Originally Posted by RookStryfe View Post
Mara and most of the other classes should not be CC'ing. A 2 second stun on their charge is reasonable. An Aoe CC is stupid.
No, as each and every class in the game there isn't a charter on who should be doing what to suit your needs. The game was built around this system called resolve, hard stuns, snare and mezzes. Stuns do not break on combat, Mezzes do. So if you're finding the AOE CC that is a Mez stupid than you don't know what is stupid when it comes to CC's e.g. Ranged CC's shouldn't be a thing IMO, You should have to sacrifice position to stun someone. But they're in the game and Assassin's have a Ranged CC called (Whirlwind usable at 30m) since they're a Melee class it doesn't make any sense that's what I call stupidity.
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mothbanquet's Avatar


mothbanquet
09.19.2019 , 03:41 AM | #19
As a mostly Hatred player, I'm rather intrugued by the idea of spreading Force Slow with DF, if it synergizes with the utilities that buff FS, and if one adds in the 30% slow from lacerate utility it sounds like hell for melee. Since Hatred is, to respectfully contradict the OP, a mid-close range hit & run spec that requires some form of kiting owing to it's squishiness compared to Deception, these new additions might well lead to hard utility choices. Speaking in PvP terms of course.

Zurules's Avatar


Zurules
09.19.2019 , 06:13 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
Exactly one hard stun and one mezz, our greatest stun in my opinion is tied behind the Utility Tree (Maiming Reach) which makes Crippling Slash a 3 second stun but usable every 10 seconds.

However they've mezzes, stuns basically the full works and yet they're still complaining?

Mindtrap - Mezz.
Whirlwind - Mezz.
Spike - Short duration stun.
Electrocute - Longer duration stun.
Low Slash - Short duration stun.

Utility - Hand of Darkness - Grants a stun effect to that Low Slash, Force Pull and Eradicate.

Darkness crumbles most when Stuns are in play, I always get the healer mob handed, Pull with stun out of their safe space, Spike is like a 15 seconds CD, it's the best class for crowd control and still will be in 6.0.
Low slash is not a stun. It is a mezz. The utility only adds a root effect after the mezz effect wears off.

If you do not know the difference between a stun, a mezz or what a root is, then you honestly should rethink about talking about gameplay at all. Not know the basics is a big red flag.

Also, i must say i do not remember at any time when deception/infiltration was the meta. We had Balance/madness (the dot spec) as meta in season 3, but never infiltration/deception.
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