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Thanks for Theron Shan. <3 <3 <3 This is a love thread, haters make your own lol.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Thanks for Theron Shan. <3 <3 <3 This is a love thread, haters make your own lol.
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BlueShiftRecall's Avatar


BlueShiftRecall
02.15.2019 , 08:57 PM | #2221
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
I guarantee you if it had been a male character doing and saying all the stuff to our character that Lana does, the "core demographic" of straight men would flip out and BioWare would immediately change it and probably give that male Lana equivalent a kill option (Koth got one just for standing up to our characters when they mass murder his people).
I fully understand from a market perspective the core demographic (and it's pretty obvious who they are I mean with every force user having a "hot female" apprentice/padawan LI, Kira, Nadia, Ashara, Jasea) they need to make their money but when we're still following that format now with Lana being the "hot" single female force user whereas Koth/Theron are both non force-using male who can be killed off... Can you imagine the hate if more force using female LI's (Kira, Nadia, Ashara, Lana) could killed off, how could anyone possibly go on without their hot force using waifu worshiping every step their male character makes (end sarcasm)! Sorry might have gotten carried away there. Moving into 6.0 I can bet that Tau (another female force user) will be a LI (who I bet will never get a kill option) and we'll get a non force using male who'll guess what probably be a traitor and be killable....I know shock and horror! Again I totally get it from a making money perspective but yeah gets a little old at some point.

Edit // My bad with saying all female force using LI can't be killed as I just remembered you can kill DS Jasea off. That is a surprise to me.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkelefantos View Post
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Lunafox's Avatar


Lunafox
02.16.2019 , 12:23 AM | #2222
Quote: Originally Posted by Goreshaga View Post


Or the devs really think that everybody loves Lana so much that we all want to romance her and that we'll all find that worried look absolutely adorable...
That's probably the one. *urgh* Yuck.

Quote: Originally Posted by Noerra View Post
Just wondering how that conversation with my PC and Theron will go...
PC: Hey, btw, i am not really working for empire, i been secrectly saboteuring them for republic!
Theron: What? Wait what? Why did you not tell me earlier, i could have set you up with SIS people! You remember Jonas right?
PC: Uhm. Yeah. Thing is, i already was in contact with Jonas about this.
Theron: Ahh cool, yes, you knew him already. Are we gonna tell Lana?
PC: Well... she knows already.
Theron: You told her before me? After all we been trough?
PC: Uhm well the thing is she used her SIS contacts to...Hey, where are you going? Come back!

Point taken.

I'm thinking the convo should go more like this.

PC: Theron, we need to talk.
Theron: Nothing good ever starts with that. It's Oggurubb isn't it. Damn charming Hutt, I knew he'd be a problem.
PC: *laughs and hugs Theron* No silly, but I have to admit that monocle is hot.
Theron: Seriously, though...*looks a little worried*
PC: Did you know that Lana has been meddling with your work?
Theron: What do you mean?
PC: You know how she asked me to go for that walk with her before? Well, she as much as told me she's been in contact with the SIS and Jonas.
Theron: You lost me.
PC: I'm not really working for the Empire, if you catch my drift.
Theron: Kinda like that time I wasn't really betraying the alliance. Or you. Gotcha.
PC: Exactly. Lana's been going over our heads, intercepting calls, doing our talking for us. I don't like it.
Lana: *from under the bed* It's for your own good.
PC and Theron: The hell?! *lift up bed skirt* GET OUT!
Lana: *leaves mopingly.*
PC: That's just creepy.
Theron: I'll talk to her about it.
PC: No, I'll do it.
Theron: Just don't go all, well y'know...C2-N2 hates a mess.
PC: We need to remind Lana, that if this is to work we have to trust each other and not keep secrets and if she can't handle that, well...1) Banish Lana 2)Forgive her but lay down the law! 3)KILL LANA (fina-freaking-ly)
Theron: Well, whatever you decide, just know, I'm a hundred percent on board. Anyway, that's enough about Lana and Oggurubb and the war on vegetables. I have a better idea.
PC: Oh?
Theron: Pulls PC close and kisses her in the Quinn/SW style and FTB.
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Swingkittie's Avatar


Swingkittie
02.16.2019 , 12:33 AM | #2223
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post

PC: Theron, we need to talk.
Theron: Nothing good ever starts with that. It's Oggurubb isn't it. Damn charming Hutt, I knew he'd be a problem.
PC: *laughs and hugs Theron* No silly, but I have to admit that monocle is hot.
Theron: Seriously, though...*looks a little worried*
PC: Did you know that Lana has been meddling with your work?
Theron: What do you mean?
PC: You know how she asked me to go for that walk with her before? Well, she as much as told me she's been in contact with the SIS and Jonas.
Theron: You lost me.
PC: I'm not really working for the Empire, if you catch my drift.
Theron: Kinda like that time I wasn't really betraying the alliance. Or you. Gotcha.
PC: Exactly. Lana's been going over our heads, intercepting calls, doing our talking for us. I don't like it.
Lana: *from under the bed* It's for your own good.
PC and Theron: The hell?! *lift up bed skirt* GET OUT!
Lana: *leaves mopingly.*
PC: That's just creepy.
Theron: I'll talk to her about it.
PC: No, I'll do it.
Theron: Just don't go all, well y'know...C2-N2 hates a mess.
PC: We need to remind Lana, that if this is to work we have to trust each other and not keep secrets and if she can't handle that, well...1) Banish Lana 2)Forgive her but lay down the law! 3)KILL LANA (fina-freaking-ly)
Theron: Well, whatever you decide, just know, I'm a hundred percent on board. Anyway, that's enough about Lana and Oggurubb and the war on vegetables. I have a better idea.
PC: Oh?
Theron: Pulls PC close and kisses her in the Quinn/SW style and FTB.
I got a good laugh here. Lana hiding under the bed - lol. And yes, I really wish they would put that last part in about the kiss. About time he does the Quinn pull kiss!
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Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
02.16.2019 , 03:42 AM | #2224
Quote: Originally Posted by BlueShiftRecall View Post
I fully understand from a market perspective the core demographic (and it's pretty obvious who they are I mean with every force user having a "hot female" apprentice/padawan LI, Kira, Nadia, Ashara, Jasea) they need to make their money but when we're still following that format now with Lana being the "hot" single female force user whereas Koth/Theron are both non force-using male who can be killed off... Can you imagine the hate if more force using female LI's (Kira, Nadia, Ashara, Lana) could killed off, how could anyone possibly go on without their hot force using waifu worshiping every step their male character makes (end sarcasm)! Sorry might have gotten carried away there. Moving into 6.0 I can bet that Tau (another female force user) will be a LI (who I bet will never get a kill option) and we'll get a non force using male who'll guess what probably be a traitor and be killable....I know shock and horror! Again I totally get it from a making money perspective but yeah gets a little old at some point.

Edit // My bad with saying all female force using LI can't be killed as I just remembered you can kill DS Jasea off. That is a surprise to me.
I could understand the game being skewed towards male players in the beginning (which it was with the number of love interests available, half the armor options suddenly becoming skimpy and sexy on women, sexy outfits only available for women and not men, etc...) because they assumed the playerbase would be mostly male based on certain types of games (FPS for example) but this is a BioWare rpg. Women play them, a LOT of women play them and in general women are more into story and character aspects than men while men are more into combat and gameplay mechanics than women. Just look at any of the threads started on the forums, the vast majority of story/companion/romance threads are by women and gameplay/operations/PvP/bugs(unless it involves companion or story) are by men. In my eyes giving straight men all the options, all the romance scenes, etc...makes no sense both from a fairness perspective and from a "who is using or wanting this kind of content most" perspective. At this point the dev's favoritism of straight male players seems to be based on outdated assumptions and their own undying love for Lana and the assumption that everyone else feels the same way.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
*snip hilarious scenario*
Lana hiding under the bed had me shrieking with laughter XD I wish I could say it's because the idea is so ridiculous but it's so believable! T_T

Farferello's Avatar


Farferello
02.16.2019 , 07:21 AM | #2225
Spoiler


I still don't know why we couldn't have Theron being the first character we saw on waking up instead of Lana. If we happen to be romancing him, he could have been in the room instead, Lana had no need to be in there studying the Holocron whilst we're asleep.

Some of my characters would have been furious to find Lana in their room. My Knight especially would have gone nuts (that's an understatement) to find anyone, but especially a Sith he has been nothing but hostile to, just chilling in his room. Lana could have easily taken the Holocron elsewhere or been looking at it when my guy wasn't sleeping. So many times our character has been in a vulnerable state of some sort and instead of their loved one, or it being more people to feel less awkward/unsafe, it's usually Lana. Which again, feels like they're pushing her as a lover/best friend.

Lana seemed to show more concern about us going down to Ossus, than Theron did. Theron seemed pretty chill and was more concerned about us possibly hurting his old babysitters than our character being harmed - considering my Theron-mancer is an Imperial defector, he should have even more fear (ya know, if we'd been able to tell him about that. >_>) and they waste some of the dialogue they do give Theron, on the hair comment, which is even sillier if you'd given him his old style back.

The hug was nice, sure, I like hugs, but it was very brief - what about a kiss? And the 'this is the path forward for you,' gives me concern. A path forward without Theron? No thanks.

CloudCastle's Avatar


CloudCastle
02.16.2019 , 10:01 AM | #2226
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
I don't think Troy Baker would give up Bioware/SW:TOR, because I recall watching an episode of their (Troy and Nolan North's) web series Retro Replay, and they mentioned Bioware and SW:TOR as being a 'bread and butter' thing that can always be counted upon and I really got the impression that they were loyal and grateful and wouldn't bite the hand that feeds, so to speak.

I just wish Bioware would stop biting the hand that feeds and give us more Theron and Theron love scenes!
I'm glad to hear this! But that now puts the blame straight on BW for choosing to give Theron a backseat in the story when that's not how his character was originally introduced. I really really wish I could be a fly on the wall and hear what the prevailing thought was on this decision. Was it just an accident that Lana and Theron were made to be equal counterparts in story and in screen time? Was that set-up intentional but then purposefully scrapped for some reason with the decision to give Lana all the principal scenes instead? Was this some kind of money/resources thing where the decision was made to cater to the prime demographic only, leaving everyone else to fall to the wayside because they are less important?

I was happy when Lana and Theron were introduced as counterparts. I really thought that this was an intentional, mindful change that reflected a desire to open up the best story experience for everyone in the playerbase. So it feels almost like a betrayal when they did a 180 and chose to move away from this model. Why shut us out again? You can't tell me that making the same scenes but with different characters chosen to "star" in them is that much harder, you know? Someone recently posted on reddit a whole bunch of cut dialog from KOTFE/KOTET where mutiple characters were given the same lines and what you saw was dependent on your choices! In other words, they actually did some of this already, took the time to record it, and then cut it out.

I swear, sometimes I just want to pull my hair out.

Quote: Originally Posted by Farferello View Post
I just worry Theron will go the way of Koth in getting nothing. It's already starting to go that way with duties he should be doing being given to Lana. Though I suppose he does react one way or another over Gnost, which is more than Koth got over the Gravestone.
I'm very concerned that they are "kothing" Theron now. (Can that be a word?)

Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
I guarantee you if it had been a male character doing and saying all the stuff to our character that Lana does, the "core demographic" of straight men would flip out and BioWare would immediately change it and probably give that male Lana equivalent a kill option (Koth got one just for standing up to our characters when they mass murder his people).
It really bothers me how Koth was handled actually. I strongly, strongly suspect that Koth was intended to be a major character and one of the main three romances but then was cut due to the faction of players that screamed for his murder. And for what? Standing up to our character? Sticking to his beliefs? I can see how he doesn't mesh with all character types. When I played a power-hungry Sith character, I was more likely to notice how he always called the gravestone "his" or be annoyed at how much he simply refused to see any bad in Valkorion. But he went from being this heroic character, helping save our lives, to...almost a downright villain and it didn't feel natural to me. I suspect his story was partially rewritten, OR cut so that we only saw the bad sides. And why was his romance cut entirely and left in an unfinished state?

There seems to be this real animosity towards any male story character who dares to challenge the male PC in any way. (See exhibit A.: Quinn) I also think that is reason why we have so few male Force user companions in general (they might make the male PC feels less powerful) and why we have so many young, impressionable female Padawans instead.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
I'm thinking the convo should go more like this.

PC: Theron, we need to talk.
Theron: Nothing good ever starts with that. It's Oggurubb isn't it. Damn charming Hutt, I knew he'd be a problem.
PC: *laughs and hugs Theron* No silly, but I have to admit that monocle is hot.
Theron: Seriously, though...*looks a little worried*
PC: Did you know that Lana has been meddling with your work?
Theron: What do you mean?
PC: You know how she asked me to go for that walk with her before? Well, she as much as told me she's been in contact with the SIS and Jonas.
Theron: You lost me.
PC: I'm not really working for the Empire, if you catch my drift.
Theron: Kinda like that time I wasn't really betraying the alliance. Or you. Gotcha.
PC: Exactly. Lana's been going over our heads, intercepting calls, doing our talking for us. I don't like it.
Lana: *from under the bed* It's for your own good.
PC and Theron: The hell?! *lift up bed skirt* GET OUT!
Lana: *leaves mopingly.*
PC: That's just creepy.
I knew it! I just knew Lana was hiding under my bed all this time! (Either that or I must need to vaccuum more if my dust kitties are starting to take on the shape of Lana.)

Lunafox's Avatar


Lunafox
02.16.2019 , 03:11 PM | #2227
Quote: Originally Posted by Swingkittie View Post
I got a good laugh here. Lana hiding under the bed - lol. And yes, I really wish they would put that last part in about the kiss. About time he does the Quinn pull kiss!
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post

Lana hiding under the bed had me shrieking with laughter XD I wish I could say it's because the idea is so ridiculous but it's so believable! T_T
Quote: Originally Posted by CloudCastle View Post

I knew it! I just knew Lana was hiding under my bed all this time! (Either that or I must need to vaccuum more if my dust kitties are starting to take on the shape of Lana.)
Haha, I'm glad you guys had a chuckle. My work here is done lol. *chuffed up*


Quote: Originally Posted by CloudCastle View Post
I'm glad to hear this! But that now puts the blame straight on BW for choosing to give Theron a backseat in the story when that's not how his character was originally introduced. I really really wish I could be a fly on the wall and hear what the prevailing thought was on this decision. Was it just an accident that Lana and Theron were made to be equal counterparts in story and in screen time? Was that set-up intentional but then purposefully scrapped for some reason with the decision to give Lana all the principal scenes instead? Was this some kind of money/resources thing where the decision was made to cater to the prime demographic only, leaving everyone else to fall to the wayside because they are less important?

I was happy when Lana and Theron were introduced as counterparts. I really thought that this was an intentional, mindful change that reflected a desire to open up the best story experience for everyone in the playerbase. So it feels almost like a betrayal when they did a 180 and chose to move away from this model. Why shut us out again? You can't tell me that making the same scenes but with different characters chosen to "star" in them is that much harder, you know? Someone recently posted on reddit a whole bunch of cut dialog from KOTFE/KOTET where mutiple characters were given the same lines and what you saw was dependent on your choices! In other words, they actually did some of this already, took the time to record it, and then cut it out.

I swear, sometimes I just want to pull my hair out.
Well, blame must be assigned where it belongs. People were thinking it's Troy Baker getting to be expensive, when it's just Bioware in love with Lana and courting their target demographic. I think they're quite capable of installing whatever companion in a scene that the player's love interest choices dictate. I'm no dev, but it doesn't strike me as being all that hard to do. I agree with you about wanting to pull my hair out too, it's frustrating a lot of the time, when all I'd like is a LOT more time with Theron doing stuff and conversing. We need more special moments with him.
💥The galaxy is ours to grasp. Let us reach!💥

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BlueShiftRecall's Avatar


BlueShiftRecall
02.16.2019 , 06:05 PM | #2228
Quote: Originally Posted by CloudCastle View Post
It really bothers me how Koth was handled actually. I strongly, strongly suspect that Koth was intended to be a major character and one of the main three romances but then was cut due to the faction of players that screamed for his murder. And for what? Standing up to our character? Sticking to his beliefs? I can see how he doesn't mesh with all character types. When I played a power-hungry Sith character, I was more likely to notice how he always called the gravestone "his" or be annoyed at how much he simply refused to see any bad in Valkorion. But he went from being this heroic character, helping save our lives, to...almost a downright villain and it didn't feel natural to me. I suspect his story was partially rewritten, OR cut so that we only saw the bad sides. And why was his romance cut entirely and left in an unfinished state?
Fully agree with you around Koth, based on KOTFE chapter 1-9 I really feel as though he was being made out as you said to be on the main new 3 romances (Lana, Theron, Koth). I do believe a lot of the initial hate for Koth also came from the fact that he appeared to have a thing (and a fling with?) for Lana which infuriated those wanting Lana to themselves which also lead to lots and lots of hate right from the get go.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkelefantos View Post
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Iheaca's Avatar


Iheaca
02.17.2019 , 04:36 AM | #2229
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
Well, blame must be assigned where it belongs. People were thinking it's Troy Baker getting to be expensive, when it's just Bioware in love with Lana and courting their target demographic. I think they're quite capable of installing whatever companion in a scene that the player's love interest choices dictate. I'm no dev, but it doesn't strike me as being all that hard to do. I agree with you about wanting to pull my hair out too, it's frustrating a lot of the time, when all I'd like is a LOT more time with Theron doing stuff and conversing. We need more special moments with him.
Only that it would mean having to write dialogues for each character and have the voice actors work on it too. Not that easy in the end I guess.
Don't get me wrong, I am strongly in favour of it. I believe that it makes sense to have the LIs come and say something when the Commander leaves on a mission or comes back, and my main LI is part of the ones who did not get that much screentime as a LI (I cannot say that we do not see Arcann that much overall :P). I only say that it requires potentially more than we think.
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Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
02.17.2019 , 07:07 AM | #2230
Quote: Originally Posted by BlueShiftRecall View Post
Fully agree with you around Koth, based on KOTFE chapter 1-9 I really feel as though he was being made out as you said to be on the main new 3 romances (Lana, Theron, Koth). I do believe a lot of the initial hate for Koth also came from the fact that he appeared to have a thing (and a fling with?) for Lana which infuriated those wanting Lana to themselves which also lead to lots and lots of hate right from the get go.
Definitely agree with this! Koth stood up to our characters rather than meekly accepting every evil action, he acted like the main character of his own story rather than immediately and unrealistically falling into a subservient supporting role for our special snowflake protagonist, and hes implied to have a romantic history wirh the #1 dudebro wife. He threatens their machismo because of these things and therefore had to die. 🙄