You have some great questions and the vocal minority will simply mask it as laziness. The reality is THEY did it and don't want their time devalued.

 

That's it. It's the exact same situation with shared bonuses from buffs.

 

Its just someone clinging to bad design because they went out and did it.

Yes, you can get stat bonuses from affection. Does he existence of those bonuses justify handing out PERMANENT datacron stat bonuses to characters that have no found the datacrons? IMO, it does not. You obviously feel it does, since you want those stat bonuses, but don't want to actually earn them on every character.

We have the existence of a single instance in which a stat increase earned by ONE character actually provides a benefit that affects the character, and not companions. Since you seem to think that one instance is enough to justify handing out rewards earned by ONE character to every character, past and present, then it should also justify having all rewards earned by one character duplicated and handed to every character. Fair is fair, after all, right?

Would you object to each and every character a player has getting an equivalent piece of class appropriate gear every time ONE character gets one? After all, that player already p[roved he could do it and he already did it once. Why make him go through all that effort on each of his characters?

Why make each and every character earn the XP required to level? Why not give each and every character an equal amount of XP each time ONE character earns any XP. After all, they already earned it once. Why make them go through all that tedium over and over again on each character?

Why not give each character the FULL AMOUNT of credits that only ONE character earns? After all, they already earned them once. Why make them go through all that tedium over and over on every character?

If there was a way to transfer the stat bonuses from one character to another, so that only ONE character had them at any given time, I would back that 100%. This would be the same as using a set of legacy gear to transfer a single set of mods between characters. That is not possible, however, as the game currently stands. What is being asked is that BW DUPLICATE and give to each and every character something only earned by ONE character.

This is the same concept as giving each and every character the full amount of credits any time ONE character earns any, giving each and every character an equivalent piece of class appropriate gear any time ONE character receives a piece of gear or giving each and every character the full amount of XP earned by ONE character any time ONE character earns any XP.

 

This is a video game, right? It is - by virtue - a "lazy" endeavor, in and of itself. It is not an employment activity. It is NOT "work;" ergo, you should not treat it as such, nor would you then have to pay for it. But, we DO pay to enjoy this game to its fullest; because, it is fun, enjoyable, and something that we can spend our leisure time in pursuing the myriad of adventures therein.

 

I will spell this out for you ('cuz I seriously don't think you understand the concept of "work"): This is not work; it is not an employment activity; not a means to survive, nor a means to etch out personal leisure time. It is a game. It is for fun. This game is, however, an investment of personal leisure time, where time is variable: some have more than others, and many engage in employment activities to support their leisure activities, and afford the scarce resource known as "time" to purchase such activities.

 

The debate at hand should not be simply eroded to the pejorative of "lazy," but in maximizing what little leisure time we (as individuals) have to invest on the activities in this game. As I have made mention to prior, I am on the fence - as some datacrons I would still enjoy finding for each character I play, and some I would rather pretend do not exist. However, if, for example, I level up a 55, and discover that the AC I rolled is in demand for a guilded HM DF/DP progression, or Dweadtoof and secret boss raiding, I would rejoice at the option to buy a legacy perk to unlock all datacrons for that toon. The stats may only be marginally significant, but in HM/NiM progression raiding, every little bit helps (to widen a deathly slim margin of error, or give that one-off chance for a lucky roll that may mean the difference between clearing and wiping).

 

For your edification, I would advise you to read up on Keynesian economics, to elevate your understanding of what motivates the working class to work (esp. employment activities vs leisure activities). Because, quite frankly, equating an activity in this (or any) game as "work" frightens me as to what your work ethics are, and makes it seem like your office is in your mom's basement, your coffee shop is on the Fleet, and any in-game destination you can travel to is your jobsite. It induces me believe that your leisure time amounts to 99% of your total time and 0-1% allocated to employment activities (bio breaks and the like). Therefore, your association of the term "work" then seems ill placed and confused. By-the-by, you're this guy, right? For realsies, right? LOL

You're very good about making assumptions.

To set the record straight, I work 50+ hours a week, bowl at least three nights a week, have a family and all the time consuming obligations that go with having that family. If I get 3-4 hours a week to play, I consider myself lucky. Each and every time I get to log in, I have to choose how to spend the limited time I have. Do I do dailies for credits? Do I run a HM FP or two for comms? Do I find a few datacrons for those bonuses? I recognize that not every part of this game is all fun and excitement. Some parts of it are time sinks and grinds.

Unlike some , however, I do not come to the forums begging the devs to change the game so that I only have to do something ONE time to have all of my characters reap the rewards for that activity.

RIght... I can put my BiS Willpower 78s in my Red Scalene armor and transfer it to my Heal sage, my DPS Sin, or my DPS sorc: the itemization is pretty much the same (less the set bonuses), and I can get 3 or more toons to build up that set and use it each time that I want. Making earning set bonuses for each later on that much quicker. Even though I transferred the entire gear set to each toon that I raid with, I only had to earn the mods ONCE! Wowzas... Since I can only play one toon at a time, and then - therefore - only need to have one set of transferable gear, can that then be interpreted as a duplication of stats? The very thing you seem to be opposed to is already in game? ...And your point was?.... (nvm - I don't want to see more repetition. I can just scroll up and revisit your circular arguments at my leisure)

Yes, you can send that set of mods between characters. You only have ONE set of mods to transfer. You do NOT get a set of mods for each and every character simply because you obtained ONE set. If there were a way to transfer a single set of datacron stat bonuses between characters, your analogy would be appropriate, but there is not. A single set of mods is NOT the same thing as INFINITE sets of datacrons stat bonuses.

I would support something such as the holoviewer suggested by a previous poster that would enable the transfer of those datacron stat bonuses.

That is not what is being asked of the devs, however. What is being asked of the devs is that they hand out potentially INFINITE number of sets of datacron stat bonuses simply because ONE character earned them.

It's called a "main." I do almost all of my dailies on it and spread the rewards out to my alts.

 

 

 

You can dole out those credits earned by your main, but like those mods, there is only ONE set of credits to distribute. If your main earns 500k credits doing dailies today, you can distribute those credits any way you choose. If your main earns 500k credits today, the rest of your characters don't automatically get 500K credits just because your main earned them.

I'm sure that you'll just dismiss this again because it doesn't mesh with your desire to be handed datacron stat bonuses on characters that did not find those datacrons.

I'd like legacy datacrons. Make a legacy perk or something. Like put datacrons on their own list, each entry fills in if you find the datacron but is grayed out or something if you didn't find it with your current character. Buy a legacy perk for credits/coins and all the datacrons you've found or will find with any character on that legacy have their boosts applied to the character that bought the perk.

Hell, maybe even start adding new datacrons (or other collectibles) that give you boosts beyond stats too. Come up with a whole collectibles system that incorporates seeker droid stuff, macrobinocular stuff, datacrons and who knows what else. Make it a legacy wide thing. It could be part of Collections.

I have no idea if this idea is in any way viable from a design standpoint, but it sure would be nice to have.

Would I object if the devs chose to remove those "affection" legacy perks? No, I would not. Would I argue to add those perks if the devs had not instituted them from the start? No, I would not.

 

If they even mentioned the possibility of removing those perks, however, I'm sure these forums would erupt with people clamoring not to change the rules of the game. I'm simply asking the devs NOT to change the rules regarding a totally OPTIONAL part of the game.

This is a fair statement.

And it is true, the rules of the game are what they are. Changing the way legacy datacrons affect alts would in fact be changing the rules.

This is a fair statement.

 

And it is true, the rules of the game are what they are. Changing the way legacy datacrons affect alts would in fact be changing the rules.

except... there's a difference between "removing" a perk. and "adding" one.

both are changes, but only one of them is a negative one.

furthermore.

rules are changing constantly. we use to get our first mount at lvl 25 and didn't get sprint until lvl 16. we didn't have legacy armor or even adoptive armor (that's a big one - it used to be a major pain and/or expense, trying to get moddable belts and wrists that weren't light armor) vast majority of legacy perks didn't exist. at all. hell, lvl 10 crystals with lvl 50 stats are a rule changer. collections is a big one, ability to just replicate sets of armor or crystals endlessly on ALL your characters (its not even legacy wide - its account wide) after unlocking them once. that's a big deal.

changing the game to provide better quality of life for its players? is a good rule change.

except... there's a difference between "removing" a perk. and "adding" one.

 

both are changes, but only one of them is a negative one.

 

furthermore.

 

rules are changing constantly. we use to get our first mount at lvl 25 and didn't get sprint until lvl 16. we didn't have legacy armor or even adoptive armor (that's a big one - it used to be a major pain and/or expense, trying to get moddable belts and wrists that weren't light armor) vast majority of legacy perks didn't exist. at all. hell, lvl 10 crystals with lvl 50 stats are a rule changer. collections is a big one, ability to just replicate sets of armor or crystals endlessly on ALL your characters (its not even legacy wide - its account wide) after unlocking them once. that's a big deal.

 

changing the game to provide better quality of life for its players? is a good rule change.

That is your opinion. Judging from the countless threads regarding this subject and countless other subjects, many do not share your opinion.

Some may feel that removing a perk may be a positive thing, depending on the perk being removed. At the same adding a perk is not always positive for the game, as a whole.

IMO, some changes are good for the game, but some things should not be changed.

Reducing the level requirement for speeders was a positive change, IMO. It makes it quicker to travel, but does not negate the need for each character to actually make those journeys. Reducing the amount of XP required to level makes the leveling process easier, but the leveling process still requires each character to earn the XP themselves.

If they removed the need for each character to earn his/her own XP and simply handed out an equal amount of XP to every character whenever one character earns any XP, that would be a negative perk to add, IMO. Many would see that as a positive QoL change, however, as it would make their game play time "more efficient" and easier.

If there's one thing I learnt about Bioware Austin in the last two years, it's the fact that they don't like to talk.

 

But when they do, those words do mean something.

 

Based on this, I think legacy datacron unlock is gonna be in the game at SOME point in the future.

 

( So suck it losers = earn them all individually sociopaths )

 

How far into the future is a matter of debate. They said guildships they'd like to add but didn't know if it could be done, about at what, March 2012?

 

So a very similar statement , I think we are looking at a 20-24 month time frame.

 

But there is something even more interesting. This post is a bit old, not a lot, but a bit.

 

Here's the thing. Jesse Sky is very clearly stated to be the lead OPS developer. And I checked he was the lead dev back then, he is still holdng the same post.

 

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jesse-sky/26/222/701

 

Now, why would the lead OPS dev comment on the datacrons, hmm( insert yoda voice) ?

 

Think on it.

Allow me to quote myself:

It was on ONE devs PERSONAL wish list over a year ago, not the wish list of the devs as a whole. That dev may no longer even work for BW.

 

More recently we have this:

 

I heard Musco mention this in a recent podcast interview, he said it would probably never happen b/c it would require the devs to redesign the entire holocron system.

 

 

http://www.twitch.tv/twonkhammer/b/504310253

 

Here is the link to it, IIRC it is some time after the 1:00:00 mark.

 

and this:

 

http://torwars.com/swtor-community-cantina-san-francisco-food-drinks-and-a-lot-of-laughter/

 

which includes the folowing:

 

"-I asked if datacrons/codex etc. will be added to legacy in future. Datacrons no, achievements yes."

The last time I checked, Eric Musco trumped Jesse Sky, btw.

 

The last time I checked, Eric Musco trumped Jesse Sky, btw.

It's quite the reverse.

Musco had spoken from general knowledge there, as he normally does. Probably.

For direct answers he posts on the forums and states in streams, he makes calls and gets clear, definite info from associated devs.

He is community manager, not executive producer.

If anyone is trumping anyone's word, it'd be Jeff Hickman's.

With that side note, keep in mind that when he was on that podcast, he couldn't contact Jesse on the fly. So what you have there is Musco speculating on what he knows. Plus, he never came out and posted this statement on this or any other thread. Hence, until a singular forum post shows up, Jesse Sky's statement is the only definite info you have on this.

Which is very little. At the end of the day, if Datacron / platforming aspect ( the WORST WORST feature of this game --- ecause it was not designed for this, and game engine is horrible at those) is in the responsibility of the OPS/FP team, well, forget any sort of unlocking, I'm fairly certain we will only get 2 more datacrons even if this game makes it into lvl100 range in 7-8 years.

Thinking back on some of those nightmare crons, it makes perfect sense that Sky had a hand in it.

He's certifiably sadistic, as is his team, when it comes to certain fight mechanics. Those people who went into Warlords / Styrak NiM with appropriate ( 72) gear will know this.

Which is very ironic, since getting Styrak's chained big version down, while small ones are literally a meter away, really changes someone's perception on how useful that +31 bonus damage from willpower bonuses can change things. In the end, what necessitates those seemingly insignificant bonuses are the same game aspect that is least like the platformng game aspect.

I'll definitely give credit where credit is due to the pro-Legacy Datacron people: they sure are great at clinging to an ancient, severely out-dated bit of information and using that as a basis of hope and the backbone of many of their ill-fated dreams.

Too bad they can't put 1/100th of that energy into bending over and picking up Datacrons.

PS - So if, in 5 years, they finally do make Datacrons Legacy-wide, it'll be hilarious to see all the pro-Legacy Datacron people posting here about how they were right and how those of us that didn't want this feature were delusional for 7 years. I wish I had a TARDIS right now to check it out.

You're very good about making assumptions.

 

To set the record straight, I work 50+ hours a week, bowl at least three nights a week, have a family and all the time consuming obligations that go with having that family. If I get 3-4 hours a week to play, I consider myself lucky. Each and every time I get to log in, I have to choose how to spend the limited time I have. Do I do dailies for credits? Do I run a HM FP or two for comms? Do I find a few datacrons for those bonuses? I recognize that not every part of this game is all fun and excitement. Some parts of it are time sinks and grinds.

 

Unlike some , however, I do not come to the forums begging the devs to change the game so that I only have to do something ONE time to have all of my characters reap the rewards for that activity.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, you can send that set of mods between characters. You only have ONE set of mods to transfer. You do NOT get a set of mods for each and every character simply because you obtained ONE set. If there were a way to transfer a single set of datacron stat bonuses between characters, your analogy would be appropriate, but there is not. A single set of mods is NOT the same thing as INFINITE sets of datacrons stat bonuses.

 

I would support something such as the holoviewer suggested by a previous poster that would enable the transfer of those datacron stat bonuses.

 

That is not what is being asked of the devs, however. What is being asked of the devs is that they hand out potentially INFINITE number of sets of datacron stat bonuses simply because ONE character earned them.

 

 

 

You can dole out those credits earned by your main, but like those mods, there is only ONE set of credits to distribute. If your main earns 500k credits doing dailies today, you can distribute those credits any way you choose. If your main earns 500k credits today, the rest of your characters don't automatically get 500K credits just because your main earned them.

 

 

 

I'm sure that you'll just dismiss this again because it doesn't mesh with your desire to be handed datacron stat bonuses on characters that did not find those datacrons.

Keep on clinging. Its amusing.

Too many posts to read, I must be lazy But seriously, isn't legacy armor/mod moving just as bad? You anti-legacy datacron folk seem to think of your all characters as separate people, but I have decked out alts that haven't run OPS in forever. But they're almost all in 78's. Those characters didn't earn it, they must be lazy too. Not my main, he's a machine.

Personally I'd be fine if datacrons were legacy wide, but if not, not sweat. Plus the bonus from datacrons pale in comparison to the mods, armoring, enhancements and crafted accessories I sent through mail/legacy system. Those lazy arse alt characters of mine just won't get em

It's quite the reverse.

 

Musco had spoken from general knowledge there, as he normally does. Probably.

 

For direct answers he posts on the forums and states in streams, he makes calls and gets clear, definite info from associated devs.

 

He is community manager, not executive producer.

 

If anyone is trumping anyone's word, it'd be Jeff Hickman's.

 

With that side note, keep in mind that when he was on that podcast, he couldn't contact Jesse on the fly. So what you have there is Musco speculating on what he knows. Plus, he never came out and posted this statement on this or any other thread. Hence, until a singular forum post shows up, Jesse Sky's statement is the only definite info you have on this.

 

Which is very little. At the end of the day, if Datacron / platforming aspect ( the WORST WORST feature of this game --- ecause it was not designed for this, and game engine is horrible at those) is in the responsibility of the OPS/FP team, well, forget any sort of unlocking, I'm fairly certain we will only get 2 more datacrons even if this game makes it into lvl100 range in 7-8 years.

 

Thinking back on some of those nightmare crons, it makes perfect sense that Sky had a hand in it.

 

He's certifiably sadistic, as is his team, when it comes to certain fight mechanics. Those people who went into Warlords / Styrak NiM with appropriate ( 72) gear will know this.

 

Which is very ironic, since getting Styrak's chained big version down, while small ones are literally a meter away, really changes someone's perception on how useful that +31 bonus damage from willpower bonuses can change things. In the end, what necessitates those seemingly insignificant bonuses are the same game aspect that is least like the platformng game aspect.

Go ahead and ignore Musco's comments since they do not mesh with your desire to be handed that which you have not earned. I ask, though, how do you explain the second part of my post--the one in which it is stated in no uncertain terms legacy achievements yes, datacrons, no?

Also, why have we heard NOTHING from Jesse Sky, or any other dev, that this is even still being considered in almost a year, if not over a year?

Given the silence that this is still even on the wall of crazy, and the statements that it will not happen, i would have to say that it seems highly unlikely that we will see legacy datacrons. Feel free to tell yourself I'm wrong if it makes you sleep better at night. Keep this in mind, though. In the time that you wait for legacy datarons to be implemented, you could actually find them on your characters and have those stat bonuses that you want so much. I doubt that you will do that since it requires a little effort and time, however.

Keep on clinging. Its amusing.

lol

To set the record straight, I work 50+ hours a week, bowl at least three nights a week, have a family and all the time consuming obligations that go with having that family. If I get 3-4 hours a week to play, I consider myself lucky. Each and every time I get to log in, I have to choose how to spend the limited time I have. Do I do dailies for credits? Do I run a HM FP or two for comms? Do I find a few datacrons for those bonuses? I recognize that not every part of this game is all fun and excitement. Some parts of it are time sinks and grinds.

Wow. First, congratulations on being a productive member of society. That's awesome that you devote so much of yourself and your time to your work and family! Good to hear . However, it would seem that my initial assessment was the correct one. So, I will amend my current assumption with my former.

It all makes sense now. Your leisure time is very limited, and, therefore, your opportunity costs are very expensive. As such, you have grinded out all of the datacrons on multiple toons, and that's a significant cost invested out of your time. It is understandable that you would feel the way you feel: [said in a whiny geeky Milhouse voice] "if they make datacrons legacy wide, it will cheapen the time I had invested in getting them all. Well, I d-d-don't like that. Not one bit! Errmh! It's unfair to me... Waaahhh. So, I-I-I'm gonna nerd-rage on the forums to attempt to dissuade others from liking what I don't like. And if that fails, I'll just call them names. Yaahh. ... I know, I'll call them 'lazy' - haha."

I know that you know it sounds childish, and perhaps the reason you didn't state this position from the start, but you could have (revised and edited to fit your language of course), and held firm to that conviction: at least it would have been honest, and people would have respected you for that. Instead, you have just been side-stepping the issue entirely, dancing around the bush, pointing fingers at everybody, calling them "lazy." Yet, the real issue remains unchallenged: you're retarded (the dictionary meaning here; not the vernacular): you want to hold yourself back for no other reason than a perceived potential trivialization of your time, and hope to inflict the same retardation, through your diatribe, to your fellow gamers.

Unlike some , however, I do not come to the forums begging the devs to change the game so that I only have to do something ONE time to have all of my characters reap the rewards for that activity.

Really though...Your leisure time is extremely scarce. Begging to the devs as a champion of the pro-datacron crowd would only serve to better your position. Think about it.

I'm sure that you'll just dismiss this again because it doesn't mesh with your desire to be handed datacron stat bonuses on characters that did not find those datacrons.

As I had stated a number of times before, "I am on the fence." I don't really care either way how legacy datacrons play out -- if they happen, they happen; if not, no problem. Although, I do lean a little towards in favor of them if they are implemented, but I am not resting my hopes on that happening anytime soon (if at all). It would be a 'nice to have' feature added, but not that big of a deal.

In the end, I'm not even arguing in favor or against. I am simply deriving my satisfaction, at this point, in disarming your arguments, and assisting you in your own self-defecation in this thread. Honestly, I did suggest that you not respond. I gave you that option. Sometimes, not saying anything at all is the correct response.

Have fun self-destructing in your verbose verbal defecation for everybody's amusement.

It's been a pleasure.

Cheers!

Go ahead and ignore Musco's comments since they do not mesh with your desire to be handed that which you have not earned. I ask, though, how do you explain the second part of my post--the one in which it is stated in no uncertain terms legacy achievements yes, datacrons, no?

 

Also, why have we heard NOTHING from Jesse Sky, or any other dev, that this is even still being considered in almost a year, if not over a year?

 

Given the silence that this is still even on the wall of crazy, and the statements that it will not happen, i would have to say that it seems highly unlikely that we will see legacy datacrons. Feel free to tell yourself I'm wrong if it makes you sleep better at night. Keep this in mind, though. In the time that you wait for legacy datarons to be implemented, you could actually find them on your characters and have those stat bonuses that you want so much. I doubt that you will do that since it requires a little effort and time, however.

What if they name datacrons as a legacy achievement? Is it all in the name for you?

Agree with the rest - it's a dead issue.

This is still going? i thought this was the greatest build up to the Games most epic April's Fools joke... w/e have fun hanging on to hope. lol

We would really like to allow players to unlock datacrons at the Legacy level, and it's pretty high on my personal wishlist. We're still investigating the technical feasibility, so I can't make any promises.

 

I'd love an update on this considering the recent interest from the community.

as soon as they figure out a way to monetize it with Cartel Coins rest assured it will be in-game. give them time to figure out how much to charge for it

As much as I'd like it free... I would actually pay for this... I have 19 toons just on Harbinger and have done all the datacrons for 7... I just can't be bothered doing it for the rest...

Well if the usual vocal bunch are bumping then I'll bump the "Please, do not make the datacron stat increases a legacy item that automatically applies to every single character a player already owns and every single character they decide to create in the future"

You are adding a dangerous precdent where by you would be adovating the idea that a player need only do something once, on any given character for the bonus/equipment to be applied to every single character present and future.

I feel confident it will never happen, but not confident enough not to post my opinion and my hope/wish on this subject. The complete lack of input from the devs makes me feel pretty safe that it will never happen.

dangerous

What's the worst that could happen ?

People might be rolling even more alts ? The horror...

The dangerous precendent set would be one where by people would only need to complete a task once, on a single character for all characters present and future to benfit from this.

So, why stop at datacrons - surely all codex achievements should be shared? Titles?

But again, they don't actively change stats. So why not equipment? Coms?

Maybe I should only have to PvP with a single character, earn the coms, buy the PvP gear and then that automatically grants a set to each of my characters too?

If I go do some ops and manage to get a high rated mainhand - why shouldn't each of my other characters get one too? Not just the ones that exist right now, any more that I create should also get this item?

I do not agree with making games too easy and I certainly don't agree with a system where people only need to achieve something once for it to be a benefit to all characters present and future.

That is the argument against this.

The argument for is still "I don't want to do the datacrons on every character - I can't be bothered". That is still the only argument people are putting forward as a reason for these to be added.

I cannot be bothered to get into ops groups continuously and somehow "win the roll" that gets me the mainhand weapon - doesn't mean I should be able to get one on every character as soon as I've done it once.

What's the worst that could happen ?

 

People might be rolling even more alts ? The horror...

Some people think tedium in MMOs equals skill.

Some people think being able to put up with more tedium and time sinks makes them more elite.

I definitely support account wide datacron unlocks.