So, the only reason why I am even remotely interested in the Star Wars universe are mercenaries and bounty hunters. I know you are few, but where are my people that agree with me?

I just can't get into Jedi and Sith...it's the same reason why I don't care for Superman. Here is a character with boundless powers and no weaknesses. Where is the challenge? Where is the drama concerning the character's well being against intimidating risk? Also, lets compare acquiring skills for a moment.

Sith/Jedi: Born with inalienable skills that simply need to be developed in time, building a light saber, and light saber dueling.

Mercenaries/Bounty Hunters: (all skills are not inalienable, you learn the hard way acquiring these skills whether or not you are proficient in them).

Tracking, the use of a massive array of firearms, the use of a massive array of gadgets to apprehend targets alive, strength conditioning, cunning, reflex enhancement, detective skills, strategic warfare concepts, hand to hand combat, melee combat, negotiation (...which Jedi/SIth don't need; mind tricks remember?), and stealth.

Sure, Jedi/Sith are more than welcome to acquire the numerous skills above to be more proficient...but they don't NEED them. These numerous skills listed for mercenaries and bounty hunters are not only a requirement for their field, but a matter of life and death without them.

Ok, so maybe I'm being a bit harsh against Jedi/Sith fans out there; that's fair. Please enlighten me; just because I don't care for Sith/Jedi does not mean I am closed minded to their struggles in becoming successful warriors. All replies welcomed; I may learn a few things.

Bounty hunters hell yeah!

Well Jedi actually do learn a lot of what you said, but yeah. I'm more partial to the Non-Force Sensitive route too.

But this is mostly because everyone else just focuses on the Jedi/Sith really, so they really just seem to say the same old information, over and over again, gets kinda boring.

But I'm also partial to the expanded groups of Force Users too(Sorcerers of Rhan come to mind, wish they had been expanded upon A LOT more), but my focus is yeah, Non-Force Sensitives. Hunters, Mercs, Assassins, Pirates, Troopers, Police, etc and so on. Because it's information hardly anyone spouts out, making it much more fresh.

So, the only reason why I am even remotely interested in the Star Wars universe are mercenaries and bounty hunters. I know you are few, but where are my people that agree with me?

 

I just can't get into Jedi and Sith...it's the same reason why I don't care for Superman. Here is a character with boundless powers and no weaknesses. Where is the challenge? Where is the drama concerning the character's well being against intimidating risk? Also, lets compare acquiring skills for a moment.

 

Sith/Jedi: Born with inalienable skills that simply need to be developed in time, building a light saber, and light saber dueling.

 

Mercenaries/Bounty Hunters: (all skills are not inalienable, you learn the hard way acquiring these skills whether or not you are proficient in them).

 

Tracking, the use of a massive array of firearms, the use of a massive array of gadgets to apprehend targets alive, strength conditioning, cunning, reflex enhancement, detective skills, strategic warfare concepts, hand to hand combat, melee combat, negotiation (...which Jedi/SIth don't need; mind tricks remember?), and stealth.

 

Sure, Jedi/Sith are more than welcome to acquire the numerous skills above to be more proficient...but they don't NEED them. These numerous skills listed for mercenaries and bounty hunters are not only a requirement for their field, but a matter of life and death without them.

 

Ok, so maybe I'm being a bit harsh against Jedi/Sith fans out there; that's fair. Please enlighten me; just because I don't care for Sith/Jedi does not mean I am closed minded to their struggles in becoming successful warriors. All replies welcomed; I may learn a few things.

As big of a fan as I am of Sith and Jedi my fiancee actually isn't. She's a Jango Fett fan (she likes him more than Boba even.) and her only characters in SWTOR are all non-force sensitive. She likes the agent, smuggler, trooper, and BH.

I'm a fan of all non force users. Agents, soldiers, Bounty hunters, smugglers. These are all hard won skills that take YEARS of honing. Some are born with the aptitude for it and take to it like a fish to water, but it's not like the force where "oh hey I have this magical force, I can do anything!"

Why my main on the Imp side, is my female agent. On the Rep side right now because I re did my JK with my free lvl 60 token, it's the JK, but soon, my commando will take over.

I'm a fan of all non force users. Agents, soldiers, Bounty hunters, smugglers. These are all hard won skills that take YEARS of honing. Some are born with the aptitude for it and take to it like a fish to water, but it's not like the force where "oh hey I have this magical force, I can do anything!"

 

Why my main on the Imp side, is my female agent. On the Rep side right now because I re did my JK with my free lvl 60 token, it's the JK, but soon, my commando will take over.

Well Jedi/Sith still have to take years of training to hone their Force abilities too.

Well Jedi/Sith still have to take years of training to hone their Force abilities too.

They do, however like Kreia said I. KOTOR2, "take the force away from a jedi, you see a child swinging a lightsaber." They rely on it far more than they realize."

They do, however like Kreia said I. KOTOR2, "take the force away from a jedi, you see a child swinging a lightsaber." They rely on it far more than they realize."

Right, but the same could be said for a guy using tech, they can rely on it too much as well. Might not be to the extreme, but the point is here, the Jedi/Sith spend years honing their skills too.

It's not like they just instantly know everything and can do anything, they gotta work at it too.

Sure their innate abilities such as speed/strength/perception might be higher than that of others.

But then you have aliens who are similar there too with enhanced strength/vision or speed too.

Right, but the same could be said for a guy using tech, they can rely on it too much as well. Might not be to the extreme, but the point is here, the Jedi/Sith spend years honing their skills too.

 

It's not like they just instantly know everything and can do anything, they gotta work at it too.

 

Sure their innate abilities such as speed/strength/perception might be higher than that of others.

 

But then you have aliens who are similar there too with enhanced strength/vision or speed too.

But you also have to look at training as well. Take the tech away from a soldier, he will start finding ways to fight. Take the force and a lightsaber away from a jedi, half of them would be lost in the sauce. Some would start acting like the soldier, had they been trained to. Same can be said for a BH, agent(I mean they are trained like Jason Borne for heavens sake, they ARE weapons) and smugglers, gotta know how to get out of a sticky situation and may not always have a blaster.

Sorry if the fit hits the shan and you can't rely on tech and or force, non force users tend to be the higher skilled and know how to deal with situations better.

But you also have to look at training as well. Take the tech away from a soldier, he will start finding ways to fight. Take the force and a lightsaber away from a jedi, half of them would be lost in the sauce. Some would start acting like the soldier, had they been trained to. Same can be said for a BH, agent(I mean they are trained like Jason Borne for heavens sake, they ARE weapons) and smugglers, gotta know how to get out of a sticky situation and may not always have a blaster.

 

Sorry if the fit hits the shan and you can't rely on tech and or force, non force users tend to be the higher skilled and know how to deal with situations better.

Right but the tech isn't apart of the person, The Force is in every single being, so of course removing The Force from a Jedi or Sith, something they've trained with their whole lives, it'd be like removing their arms or legs.

In that respect sure, the Non-Force Users are better skilled, but it's not like Force Users haven't also learned military tacts/usage of gadgets either.

Right but the tech isn't apart of the person, The Force is in every single being, so of course removing The Force from a Jedi or Sith, something they've trained with their whole lives, it'd be like removing their arms or legs.

 

In that respect sure, the Non-Force Users are better skilled, but it's not like Force Users haven't also learned military tacts/usage of gadgets either.

Kyle Katarn for example was ****** mercenary and soldier before that he learned to use military tactics and was able to use all kinds of gadgets. Yes he was force sensitive but when he gave up the force he could still rely on his skills he acquired before he trained as force user.

The thing is a Jedi or Sith is trained all his life to use to force so when its gone they are well as Kreya put it like a child playing with lightsabers because like children they know nothing.

Atton Rand is another example and even better Bao Dur both force sensitive but both developed skills at a high level that are not force related. There are exception of force users skilled in other non force using areas.

Non Force Users: rely on training and tech

Force Users: rely on training and the Force

take the second option away and you just get a highly trained individual.

Or to put it another way, take a BH's armour and blasters away. Your left with someone with extensive physical and mental conditioning. Take the Force away from a Jedi/Sith, and your left with someone with extensive physical and mental conditioning. There are some of course on both sides that become too reliant on their "special stuff" but that is hardly unique to Force Users.

Non Force Users: rely on training and tech

Force Users: rely on training and the Force

 

take the second option away and you just get a highly trained individual.

 

Or to put it another way, take a BH's armour and blasters away. Your left with someone with extensive physical and mental conditioning. Take the Force away from a Jedi/Sith, and your left with someone with extensive physical and mental conditioning. There are some of course on both sides that become too reliant on their "special stuff" but that is hardly unique to Force Users.

This. Let's not forget that Jedi learn martial arts as well.

Sorry when it comes to "let's take everything away who comes out ahead" scenario, trooper is the winner. Many simply do not know what goes into training a specfor trooper. You can strip a trooper down to his shorts and he can still forage, survie, forge crude weappns, use escape and evasion techniques, and a whole host of other things.

Have to remember, trooper = Rambo. Rambo has taken down entire squads with a knife and a bow and arrow and he really didn't even need those to do it.

So, the only reason why I am even remotely interested in the Star Wars universe are mercenaries and bounty hunters. I know you are few, but where are my people that agree with me?

Well not the only reason, but what you said + more specifically Mandalorians are one of my favorite parts of Star Wars.

Well the trooper and the agent are highly and I mean highly trained individuals lets say that in their hand well pretty much everything is deadly weapon and a actual deadly weapon well their merciless.

If any of you read the training of special forces and KGB training you will see what I mean its brutal but there very very effective.

Now can a non force user be that good without the training of the ones mentioned above well yes as the greatest soldier that ever lived was not special forces but he was the biggest ****** that existed and he was a short man that did not even managed to complete basic training. He was the best of the best can anyone explain how a person well weaker then the average person with little training manged to take down scores of men and half a dozen tanks by himself. Really can anyone?

you're assuming that jedi aren't trained in other areas. Kreia was stupidity being thrown out as wisdom. the Jedi train their entire lives, assuming they focus purely on the force is rediculas, do they relay heavily on it? well yeah, but that's like critizing a soldier for being less effective if he's suddenly blinded.

Take the force away from a jedi, not really a jedi anymore. Take the tech away from a soldier, he's still a soldier.

Now some jedi, actually are smart and train themselves not to rely on the force alone. Hell personally if I'd of been a master at the Jedi Temple I'd of assigned problems and then required the Padawans to figure it out WITH OUT the force.

Now there are jedi who strip the force and they are: amazing diplomats, martial artists(few jedi mastered Teras Kasi) etc. But they studied things OUTSIDE the basic teachings.

Cause here's the difference between say an Agent or trooper vs a sith or jedi. Unless the Sith/Jedi actively trained to do something like be a martial arts master in something like the Echani martial arts, their ability to function well is highly limited.

Agents and troopers, they are trained(and I was a US Marine, granted not specfor or infantry but still trained in hand to hand and to use anything I can as a weapon) to do what I said. Hell for lack of a better term the hero characters are the equivalent of Jason Bourne and Rambo, but even a basic private is trained to fight without tech. Sure he does a lot better with his weapon and tech, but he can fight with out it.

Take the force away from a jedi, not really a jedi anymore. Take the tech away from a soldier, he's still a soldier.

 

Now some jedi, actually are smart and train themselves not to rely on the force alone. Hell personally if I'd of been a master at the Jedi Temple I'd of assigned problems and then required the Padawans to figure it out WITH OUT the force.

 

Now there are jedi who strip the force and they are: amazing diplomats, martial artists(few jedi mastered Teras Kasi) etc. But they studied things OUTSIDE the basic teachings.

 

Cause here's the difference between say an Agent or trooper vs a sith or jedi. Unless the Sith/Jedi actively trained to do something like be a martial arts master in something like the Echani martial arts, their ability to function well is highly limited.

 

Agents and troopers, they are trained(and I was a US Marine, granted not specfor or infantry but still trained in hand to hand and to use anything I can as a weapon) to do what I said. Hell for lack of a better term the hero characters are the equivalent of Jason Bourne and Rambo, but even a basic private is trained to fight without tech. Sure he does a lot better with his weapon and tech, but he can fight with out it.

you're not listening to what I said. my point is the Jedi don't spend their entire lives learning how to only use the force and I wish people didn't rely on obsidian's poor writing (seriously KOTOR 2's big plot revelation was an IC explaination of XP for crying out loud) to hammer this point. we see again and again and again, every major jedi we see tends to pick up a wide array of skills. Jedi are trained to operate in the field alone or in pairs, assuming they're a buncha incompetant spoon benders is pretty silly.

Take the force away from a jedi, not really a jedi anymore. Take the tech away from a soldier, he's still a soldier.

 

Now some jedi, actually are smart and train themselves not to rely on the force alone. Hell personally if I'd of been a master at the Jedi Temple I'd of assigned problems and then required the Padawans to figure it out WITH OUT the force.

 

Now there are jedi who strip the force and they are: amazing diplomats, martial artists(few jedi mastered Teras Kasi) etc. But they studied things OUTSIDE the basic teachings.

 

Cause here's the difference between say an Agent or trooper vs a sith or jedi. Unless the Sith/Jedi actively trained to do something like be a martial arts master in something like the Echani martial arts, their ability to function well is highly limited.

 

Agents and troopers, they are trained(and I was a US Marine, granted not specfor or infantry but still trained in hand to hand and to use anything I can as a weapon) to do what I said. Hell for lack of a better term the hero characters are the equivalent of Jason Bourne and Rambo, but even a basic private is trained to fight without tech. Sure he does a lot better with his weapon and tech, but he can fight with out it.

This is why I liked Anakin so much (Luke as well I guess in the OT) mainly in TCW but he could actually do things without the force. He was a great mechanic as a child and was still a very skilled pilot without force training. Even if Anakin did not get picked up by Qui-Gon he would have still made his way into the galaxy some day as a professional pod racer or something.

Most Jedi you take away the force from them and they're nothing, they're made to rely on it from such a young age that they don't know anything else.

Yeah you could say Anakins skills are enhanced through the force without him even knowing it but that description fits tons of other people as well. There's 1000s of individuals who may be decently strong in the force but are still not Jedi or Sith.