In this spec I was focused on heat management, and increasing threat and damage output. I did this by not dropping what I believe to be excessive points into the Shield Tech line. 10% shield chance and 26% absorption means that 5 points are spent for a mere 2.6% mitigation, and heat blast is not good at anything.

In this alternative build both rocket punch and Flame Burst can trigger a free rail shot that vents 8 heat. With the standard GCD of 1.5 seconds that means under 40 heat you will dissipate 8.75 heat per ability, so using rail shot actually reduces the overall heat score, and can be used sustainably about 1 in 5 attacks.

This is still a tanking spec and here is the trade off. Trading 10% shield chance (2.6% damage reduction) for 2% constant melee and ranged defense through the use of inferred sensors. The other trade off is that previously it was possible to get power armor which would provide another 2% mitigation. Now, the trade up is that you get Energy Shield active about 30% of the time. So the 2.6% difference in defensive ability is more than made up for.

With rebounder it takes around 40.5 seconds to reuse Energy Shield, and 12 of that is spent active, so only 28.5 seconds between emergencies. Calculations assume that this spec is tanking and being attacked every 1.5 seconds.

I believe this build is far superior to the standard tank spec in damage, threat, heat, pvp, and damage reduction (though the use of rebounder).

Link below:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMMrb0rZZbIbbdGM.1

Decent for pvp but seems to be lacking migration for pve/pvp, your missing:

9% total Aim, your main stat that helps dps/tps/migration.

25% damage with Ion Gas (most used stance for a Powertech Tank).

20% Accuracy debuff (AoE).

A Charge with a Stun (that lncluds abit of damage)

10% migration talent.

30% damage+ to Rocket Punch and Flame Sweep.

Heat blast that does decent damage (fire based) and reduces heat.

Overall for a PvE, your losing to much but more heat control is a plus side for pvp but still losing out by looks of it.

Though I'm not a PvP'er so I'm not 100% sure.

Decent for pvp but seems to be lacking migration for pve/pvp, your missing:

 

9% total Aim, your main stat that helps dps/tps/migration.

 

25% damage with Ion Gas (most used stance for a Powertech Tank).

 

20% Accuracy debuff (AoE).

 

A Charge with a Stun (that lncluds abit of damage)

 

10% migration talent.

 

30% damage+ to Rocket Punch and Flame Sweep.

 

Heat blast that does decent damage (fire based) and reduces heat.

 

Overall for a PvE, your losing to much but more heat control is a plus side for pvp but still losing out by looks of it.

 

Though I'm not a PvP'er so I'm not 100% sure.

Have you ever played? You're getting so much stuff wrong I really have my doubts.

Yes I have played, not pvp but only pve, your build seems more suited for pvping than pve, thats my point I'm trying to get across but it still looks decent but a few abilitys I wouldn't want to give up.

Really reducing my damage I'm taking at the same time doing decent damage as well keeping threat seems more of a tanks role in PvE.

PvP is a different story but PvP you want to focus more on CC/DPS/Migration and of course heat control.

A few good pvp videos from beta but since beta is done game play or ability's can change.

I'm not bashing your spec I just think a 31 shield tech would be more suited for PvE play, as yours is more suited for PvP.

It is pretty poor all around.

For PVE

- For starters heat blast is by no means a bad skill

It does reasonably more damage a basic attack and more importantly lower heat rather than costing it

- Secondly, there is an absorption rating stat that will be on much of your tanking gear. You should start seeing it on gear by the time you reach the point in the game Where you get that talent. Shield chance also increases threat as shielding refunds heat and refreshes the cooldown of rocket punch

- Many important threat talents in shield tech are skipped. such as 9% aim and supercharge ion gas

-A lot of the points in pyrotech are wasted. Such as points to improve a cylinder you don't even use for tanking. 4 pvp centric talents in tier 2 + 3 and the 3 point 3% endurance talent which is by far the worst per point survivability talent.

Overall this build will have lower threat, damage and survivability than the standard 31 point tank spec.

For PVP

Much of the above issues above, and you are missing jet charge which is one of the most important gap closers

- For starters heat blast is by no means a bad skill

It does reasonably more damage a basic attack and more importantly lower heat rather than costing it

Heat Blast does the same damage as just the dot portion of retractable blade. It has a 15 second reuse, and 8 heat over 15 seconds is terrible. It is especially terrible when there is much better alternatives found in the lower tiers of other trees. But don't forget this is the same tier that Wither has, except Wither is on a 7 second reuse, has high threat, reduces damage by 5%, and is an AoE. Don't kid yourself. It is terrible.

Shield chance also increases threat as shielding refunds heat and refreshes the cooldown of rocket punch

It does not refund heat. It does less damage than Rail Shot, and the Rebounder build also has 22% shield chance the same absorption opportunities. But, more synergy since those Rocket Punches have a 45% chance to refresh Rail Shot, which will vent 8 heat and be free. In this build think of rail shots as a heat blast with a 6 second reuse and hits for 3k.

- Many important threat talents in shield tech are skipped. such as 9% aim and supercharge ion gas

Important threat talents? Really? So making our highest damage ability also the most common ability besides instants is ..... you know what I'm not going to finish this thought, your point is just flawed.

-A lot of the points in pyrotech are wasted. Such as points to improve a cylinder you don't even use for tanking. 4 pvp centric talents in tier 2 + 3 and the 3 point 3% endurance talent which is by far the worst per point survivability talent.

I mitigated against this as best I could, but the link between superheated gas and superheated rail, meant that a few points needed to be wasted for the sake of dropping 8 heat every time this build uses rail shot.

Secondly, there is an absorption rating stat that will be on much of your tanking gear.

Oh and for this, modifications can be changed around on any gear that matters. And you are better off going with shield chance, than absorption. Absorption only matters when shield chance triggers, but shield chance will always have a chance to tigger. So you might want to rethink this argument.

1% shield chance will save you more damage than 1% absorption.

Heat Blast does the same damage as just the dot portion of retractable blade. It has a 15 second reuse, and 8 heat over 15 seconds is terrible. It is especially terrible when there is much better alternatives found in the lower tiers of other trees. But don't forget this is the same tier that Wither has, except Wither is on a 7 second reuse, has high threat, reduces damage by 5%, and is an AoE. Don't kid yourself. It is terrible.

The point is that it's an ATTACK that refunds heat, where pretty much every other attack generates heat. It's easily the best damage:heat ratio attack that the powertech has, and consequently it'll find its way into most powertechs' lineup if they have it.

It does not refund heat. It does less damage than Rail Shot, and the Rebounder build also has 22% shield chance the same absorption opportunities and more synergy since those Rocket Punches have a 45% chance to refresh Rail Shot, 100% chance to vent 8 heat, and 45% chance to make rail shot free.

Shielding an attack does vent heat - look at shield vents.

I mitigated against this as best I could, but the link between superheated gas and superheated rail, meant that a few points needed to be wasted for the sake of dropping 8 heat every time this build uses rail shot.

That's exactly the problem though, and you can't just handwave it away by saying you tried to work around it. If you're doing a Shield Tech - Pyrotech hybrid, you're going to have to waste points on useless and suboptimal talents Pyrotech, whereas pretty much every point climbing the Shield Tech is good. This is the primary reason why PT/ST hybrids pretty much stopped existing since Jet Charge got bumped to tier 5.

The point is that it's an ATTACK that refunds heat, where pretty much every other attack generates heat. It's easily the best damage:heat ratio attack that the powertech has, and consequently it'll find its way into most powertechs' lineup if they have it.

If you like attacks that refund heat, the rebounder build refunds alot more from attacks and does more damage in the process. Congrats!

Shielding an attack does vent heat - look at shield vents.

He was talking about rocket punch being free. I corrected him. Your point here is a response to something you misunderstood. But if you want to measure the differential, im good with that. 50% chance to vent heat and a 10% missing shield chance. 5% chance to vent heat on shielding an attack as long as they don't trigger within 6 seconds of each other. Will need to use averages to measure the difference.

Shield chance 0.32 (full shield tech) x 0.5 (vent chance) = 0.16 so 16% chance when taking damage to vent 8 heat once every 6 seconds.

Shield chance 0.22 (rebounder) x 0.5 (vent chance) = 0.11 so 11% chance to vent 8 heat once every 6 seconds.

The difference is actually closer, since the higher chance will more likely hit the maximum vent within the 6 seconds and count for nothing.

That's exactly the problem though, and you can't just handwave it away by saying you tried to work around it. If you're doing a Shield Tech - Pyrotech hybrid, you're going to have to waste points on useless and suboptimal talents Pyrotech, whereas pretty much every point climbing the Shield Tech is good. This is the primary reason why PT/ST hybrids pretty much stopped existing since Jet Charge got bumped to tier 5.

It is an investment. Since it's linked it had to be taken. Wasting points is part of the deal. who the hell wants to spend 5 points on shielding that gives 2.6% mit per hit on average? You can find better deals in most classes line. Hell, Assassins get 15% shield block chance as their tier 3 ability and we get Oil Slick which may not even stop an attack. I don't want to roll the dice when I use a tank emergency to save a group/raid. I need to know it is going to do its job so i can do mine.

I notice that no one has brought up the fact that Energy Shield with 28.5 second cool down equals 7.5% damage mitigation per hit on average. The math doesn't support the theory that defensively Rebounder is inferior to shield tech.

If you like attacks that refund heat, the rebounder build refunds alot more from attacks and does more damage in the process. Congrats!

If you're talking about rail shot, then no. On a burning target, it's 16 heat for an 8 heat refund. That's still 16 heat behind heat blast.

Rail shot only matches heat blast's heat cost when it procs to be free. Even then, there's only a 45% chance to do so, and you had to spend 16 heat on rocket punch in the process to get there. Those odds are low, and you're still 16 heat (and 1 global cooldown) behind heat blast. If you want to use flame burst as well to try to proc it, the chance becomes closer to 60%, which is still nowhere near reliable, and now you've just sunk 32 heat and 2 GCDs on it.

No matter how you slice it, heat blast is the best tool the powertechs have to deal damage while preserving heat.

snip

I was only pointing out that in shield tech, you do in fact regain heat for shielding. No need to go into a tangential rant.

It is an investment. Since it's linked it had to be taken.

Which is the entirety of the problem. This build wastes talent points, and lots of them. Those points are put to much better use in a straight shield tech build. The entire goal of making builds is to get the most of out your limited resources (in this case, talent points). A build that completely wastes tons of them is off to, at best, a very bad start.

who the hell wants to spend 5 points on shielding that gives 2.6% mit per hit on average? You can find better deals in most classes line. Hell, Assassins get 15% shield block chance as their tier 3 ability and we get Oil Slick which may not even stop an attack. I don't want to roll the dice when I use a tank emergency to save a group/raid. I need to know it is going to do its job so i can do mine.

There's more to it than that. Shield tech provides a lot of other benefits for having your shields proc.

I think it's pretty telling how defensive you're being about this build when pretty much no one agrees with you. At best, it's a very late bloomer for little if any gain, and at worst is straight up inferior to the normal tank build every step of the way. Your reactions to people trying to point these things out to you only further confirm those facts.

If you honestly think that this build is straight up better than the default tank build, then go play it and prove people wrong. It seems more like you posted just to make people ooh and ahh. In that case - sorry, you're out of luck.

Considering your demonstrated ability to respond to criticism, I think it's time to move along. I suggest that other readers do the same.

I'm just wondering why you're trying to do damage as a shieldtech. The problem with your template, in my opinion, is that you're relying on Energy Shield to do your damage mitigation for you, and trying to increase damage through heatseeker and the railshot box in pyrotech... I don't know if that's the most efficient way to go about it. You may have an increased damage reduction over time, but that's because you're averaging it... there will be times you are weaker than a full shieldtech, and about 20 seconds during which you will be a bit stronger than a shieldtech. Then again, Shieldtechs also have the basic energy shield, it's just not going to cool down as fast. Also, why would you skip Degauss in Pyrotech?

Maybe you're an excellent heat manager, but either way, I'd prefer more utility with my setup, which is a 31/8/2 setup:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GRMMdorRgzZbsbZb.1

The setup puts alot of stock into the Ion Gas Cylinder proc, but I'm OK with that because it makes my Rocket Punch, which gurantees an ion cylinder proc, more powerful. From what I experienced in testing, Rocket Punch is quite potent even without the upgrades via shieldtech and pyrotech, and with shield tech, you're guranteed to have at least a short bit in melee range with both grapple and jet charge... perfect for those huttball interceptions.

I think of heat blast as heat reduction on demand. If I've blown Vent Heat, or I don't really want to use it for a small fight, then I'm happy to vent 8 heat on the spot to pop another rocket punch, flame burst, sweep, or anything.

As for railshot, well... you see my solution: Grab the 60% AP box as well as the 6% dmg box. You'll still get off plenty of railshots, what with your stuns, ion cylinders, fire effects and all.

For me, the usual pvp rotation would be something like:

Grapple/JetCharge(optional)+ Rocket Punch + Explosive Dart + Railshot + Flame Burst/Sweep x2---Restart

Of course, that would change if they begin kiting or try to cast, in which case I would utilize Unload and Quell at the very least. I'd have to throw in Neural Dart at the start if it's grpvgrp, of course.

I'm not saying your template is bad or unuseable, but I just cannot justify the reliance on Energy Rebounder, the loss of a major gap-closer, and the minor increase in damage you suggest over the reliability of default shieldtech.

You just argued that 10% shield chance is useless but you should remove all absorption mods and replace them with shield chance. Absorption and shield chance both get better as you get more of the other stat. You will want both to be as high as possible. For end game content you can probably expect to see around 50% absorption making the talent a solid 1% DR per point

The minimum energy shield cooldown achieveable is 1 minute with the talent. Actual observed cooldown is more likely to be 70-80 seconds as you will not necessarily get attacked as the internal cooldown ends. those fraction of a second delays will add up to about 10-20 seconds depending on how many mobs your tanking

Additional shield chance will always allow for more procs of your vent heat and rocket punch. To figure out how much you need to add mean time to proc to the internal cooldown

You skipped some of the biggest threat and survivability abilities in the powertech tree making this build

-9% aim is pretty huge. It is a fairly big amount and effects everything you do

-Supercharged ion gas is a major threat ability

-6% crit to fire effects

-2% damage reduction from AP tree

-60% railshot armor penetration

-If nobody else is applying oil slick or an equivalent it is a major source of damage reduction. Effective health and avoidance both play a role in tanking. Effective health is generally somewhat more important, but avoidance is far from useless. 18% accuracy reduction is a large amount of avoidance

You build definitely has less survivability than the standard powertech build

It relies heavily on to refresh rail shot for threat but it is impossible to take puncture taking rail loaders is hurting more than it helps rain of fire is to deep in the pyrotech tree.

Arguably one of the 11 point abilities could be better than heat blast in terms of threat. however that 11 point ability would be retractable blades as it does not require spending 5 useless points to get there.

@Suleri

I wouldn't take the 9% aim box as of yet because I have no idea how much endgame Aim we will have, and I don't know what the ratio of Aim to actual damage reduction / increase / etc is. If it does turn out to be significant, I'd probably move 1 point from powered armor and 2 points from Intimidation to grab it.

Template: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GRMMdorRgzZbsbZb.1

Aim would have to match 1% damage decrease and 4% damage increase for it to be valuable to me.

If you're talking about rail shot, then no. On a burning target, it's 16 heat for an 8 heat refund. That's still 16 heat behind heat blast.

 

Rail shot only matches heat blast's heat cost when it procs to be free. Even then, there's only a 45% chance to do so, and you had to spend 16 heat on rocket punch in the process to get there. Those odds are low, and you're still 16 heat (and 1 global cooldown) behind heat blast. If you want to use flame burst as well to try to proc it, the chance becomes closer to 60%, which is still nowhere near reliable, and now you've just sunk 32 heat and 2 GCDs on it.

 

No matter how you slice it, heat blast is the best tool the powertechs have to deal damage while preserving heat.

Rail Shot is free when it is refreshed through the use of Flame Burst or Rocket Punch. Typically the rotation I'm suggesting with this build is Incendiary Missile, Rail Shot, Rocket Punch, Flame Burst, Flame Burst, Rail Shot. ect

It is sustainable mathematically from a heat perspective and doesn't require the use of Rapid Shots.

Which is the entirety of the problem. This build wastes talent points, and lots of them. Those points are put to much better use in a straight shield tech build. The entire goal of making builds is to get the most of out your limited resources (in this case, talent points). A build that completely wastes tons of them is off to, at best, a very bad start.

You're really stuck on those 2 points in superheated rail, lol. I don't mind because there is nothing else after the first tier I wouldn't mind taking.

There's more to it than that. Shield tech provides a lot of other benefits for having your shields proc.

And it was my theory that these are outweighed by having a 90 second vent heat, venting 8 heat whenever cc'd, Incendiary Missile, Rapid Rail Shots for free that vent 8 heat, and Energy Shield on a 28.5 second reuse.

I think it's pretty telling how defensive you're being about this build when pretty much no one agrees with you. At best, it's a very late bloomer for little if any gain, and at worst is straight up inferior to the normal tank build every step of the way. Your reactions to people trying to point these things out to you only further confirm those facts.

I posted this to debate the merits of the build, so I have been responding in kind to points made. Often correcting the misconceptions or misinformation.

If you honestly think that this build is straight up better than the default tank build, then go play it and prove people wrong. It seems more like you posted just to make people ooh and ahh. In that case - sorry, you're out of luck.

I think it is worth investigating, and I'm going to level this way and try it out. Mathematically it works out better than the default tree in every area. Damage is much higher, no need for filler abilities or rapid shots, or channeled abilities in a situation where the tank needs to be mobile. Threat follows the same suite. The question in my mind is the defensive aspects of the class. Is 10% shield chance (2.6% average mitigation) worth the gains made from energy rebounder. Math says yes, but the adherence to a certain rotation may limit effectiveness.

Aim is your primary offensive stat and is on virtually every piece of equipment you will consider wearing. a 9% aim talent should be somewhere between a 5%-6% overall damage boost

from what I've read, Aim now boosts both offensive and defensive stats... it's an overall stat modifier.

Either way, I wouldn't be comfortable taking it until I know for sure

Aim is your primary offensive stat and is on virtually every piece of equipment you will consider wearing. a 9% aim talent should be somewhere between a 5%-6% overall damage boost

Your math is off. At 50 powertechs get about 1700 aim (from what I've seen), and a 9% increase would be 1700*0.09=153, doesn't seem worth it, but I normally take it in the full shield tech build when I need to fill out a tier.

from what I've read, Aim now boosts both offensive and defensive stats... it's an overall stat modifier.

 

Either way, I wouldn't be comfortable taking it until I know for sure

I was in the last Beta before launch, I didn't hear about them changing this. Worth looking at.

I'm just wondering why you're trying to do damage as a shieldtech. The problem with your template, in my opinion, is that you're relying on Energy Shield to do your damage mitigation for you, and trying to increase damage through heatseeker and the railshot box in pyrotech... I don't know if that's the most efficient way to go about it. You may have an increased damage reduction over time, but that's because you're averaging it... there will be times you are weaker than a full shieldtech, and about 20 seconds during which you will be a bit stronger than a shieldtech. Then again, Shieldtechs also have the basic energy shield, it's just not going to cool down as fast. Also, why would you skip Degauss in Pyrotech?

 

Maybe you're an excellent heat manager, but either way, I'd prefer more utility with my setup, which is a 31/8/2

This is the build I used in beta. It works well, but there are issues with it and they haven't been addressed so I was looking into alternatives between beta and launch.

The reason I skipped Degauss was I wanted all the other tier 3 abilities. Incendiary missile ensure the target is burning, 2% melee and ranged defense helps with tanking and superheated rail further heightened the resource abilities of the build. In short I ran out of points for the tier.

Your math is off. At 50 powertechs get about 1700 aim (from what I've seen), and a 9% increase would be 1700*0.09=153, doesn't seem worth it, but I normally take it in the full shield tech build when I need to fill out a tier.

would you happen to know the damage/crit ratio to aim?

Like, is it 1%=100AIM?

This is the build I used in beta. It works well, but there are issues with it and they haven't been addressed so I was looking into alternatives between beta and launch.

 

The reason I skipped Degauss was I wanted all the other tier 3 abilities. Incendiary missile ensure the target is burning, 2% melee and ranged defense helps with tanking and superheated rail further heightened the resource abilities of the build. In short I ran out of points for the tier.

Ah, I see. I think the way you would use energy shield differs from my own a bit. I use ES defensively, IE I hit it when I'm getting pounded. I'm thinking why bother with the 2% melee/ranged defense when you can have a debuff-remover attatched to your shield. Clearly, you value using ES first in order to put energy rebounder to work right away.

I'm not sure what issues you're referring to with the PT line, I only got to lvl29 in the betas I participated in.

IMO, heat management isn't that hard... and I always say why bother with heat-dropping procs like shield vents. You only grab it if you're maximizing shield chance to the fullest extent, and in the long run, 2% shield shouldn't make a huge difference.

Tbh, this is why I love Adv. Prototype: their vent heat box is a guranteed -8heat every 6 seconds, where we have to rely on shielding to do it, and even then it's 50/50.

would you happen to know the damage/crit ratio to aim?

 

Like, is it 1%=100AIM?

Crit% from Stats: 5+30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((Stat/Lvl)/2.5))

It is complicated but will work if you copy and paste into Google and fill out the numbers

Aim is basically where all the damage scaling of abilities comes from. You can expect 9% aim to increase the scaled portion of your damage by 9% (not effecting base damage)

Crit% from Stats: 5+30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((Stat/Lvl)/2.5))

Errr, so at level 50, 100 Aim gives 5.8%?