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Upcoming Guild Conquest Updates


DavidStaats

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Hi everyone,

 

We wanted to let you all know of some updates we are making to Conquest as it pertains to Guilds and Guild Contributions. This update will specifically touch two main aspects of Guild Conquests - when a new character joins a Guild, and when any characters are removed from a Guild - and how Conquest Points will be handled.

 

New Character Grace Period

When a new character has accepted an invite into a Guild, that character will begin a Grace Period with the Guild. During this time, that new character can still earn their own Personal Conquest goals and rewards, but their Conquest efforts will not be calculated into the Guild’s Conquest efforts until the next Conquest event. As such, new characters will not immediately appear in a Guild’s Conquest Leaderboards, and will not be eligible for the Guild’s Invasion Reward.

 

When new characters view the Guild Invasion screen, they will see a message indicating that they are currently unable to contribute towards their new Guild’s Conquest score, and must wait until the next Conquest event. Similarly, when viewing the Guild Roster page new characters who are unable to contribute will be indicated as such, allowing Guild Leadership to get a better picture of who cannot actively contribute.

 

It is important to note that this Grace Period is per character, and not account. If a player already has a character in a Guild, and is bringing an alternate character into the Guild, the Grace Period only applies to that alternate character, and not all characters from that Legacy. Equally as important to note is that this Grace Period will also apply to all new Guilds being formed.

 

Joining a Guild is an important aspect of our game, and we want to ensure that both the Guild and new members are given time to assess each other properly, without the pressures of reward systems potentially interfering in that period.

 

Character and Guild Separation

When a player is removed from a Guild by the Guild, their Conquest contributions will now be removed from that Guild as well. In the event the character leaves a Guild on their own accord, the points they contributed to a Guild’s Conquest will remain with the Guild for that Conquest.

 

When removing characters, Guild Leadership will now be provided with a notification informing them that removing the member will result in a loss of that member’s Conquest contributions. Again, it is important to note that this is per character, and not account.

 

Guild Commendation Reward

As a result of the changes mentioned above, the time frame in which a Guild will earn their Guild Commendation Invasion Reward is being changed. Guild Perk Rewards will now be tallied at the end of a Conquest event rather than during it, and as such the Commendation Reward from Invasions will be given when the subsequent Conquest begins.

 

We want to ensure that character and Guild separation is done in a healthy and amicable way.

 

As always, thank you to everyone who has sent in feedback regarding how the current system was being used. We feel these changes will allow players and Guilds to build healthier relationships when experiencing this aspect of SWTOR, and are aiming to have these changes in an update in the near future.

 

EDIT: Added Guild Commendation Reward section.

 

EDIT 2: Posted a follow up in the thread which can be found here.

Edited by JackieKo
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Two points I'd like to make, and then I'm done here.

 

First - Hooray. I personally feel that these two things (the second in particular) are long overdue.

 

Second - Enough already! At this point, I'm convinced that if you thought it was feasible to tweak Conquest more than once each week, you would. Maybe instead of focusing on your Campaign of Infinite Conquest Changes, you should stop for a few weeks...take a deep breath or two...and figure out what you really want to do with Conquest, and then actually do it. The community mainly wants two things from you: Solutions, and stability. You're floundering with the former, and failing with the latter.

 

If y'all are really this bored, there are hundreds of bugs and oddities in the game you could address.

 

And no, my points are not contradictory. Someone can shoot at a target a hundred times and actually hit it twice.

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Good afternoon, David.

 

This will definitely help with massive guilds that recruit and kick members week to week to bolster their numbers.

 

But how will this affect people trying to earn their Planetary Conqueror achievements and titles? It is very common on Star Forge for players to join guilds taking over a planet so they can earn the achievement even if it's not with their primary guild.

 

Perhaps this itself was considered an exploit but I am curious the devs thoughts. This would imply that there is no longer a way to earn one of those titles if you joined the guild AFTER they invaded the planet, correct?

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Ill give u all the credit in the world for these changes. Im glad u listened to the feedback and picked the good options presented + your grace period idea is also very good. While im sure certain guild and its clones that were rampant on Darth Malgus server recently will try to circle around the restrictions somehow, i think these changes will make the conquest once again fun to do and compete in.
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these are great changes and I am happy that you guys are looking at things from this viewpoint and adjusting appropriately, on the contrary from the previous poster I would also like to add that I think conquest is a part of the game that loads of players do and actively participate in, regular updates to increase QoL/gameplay is thus very much appricipated by a large portion of the playerbase

 

But how will this affect people trying to earn their Planetary Conqueror achievements and titles? It is very common on Star Forge for players to join guilds taking over a planet so they can earn the achievement even if it's not with their primary guild.

 

its a bit of a bandaid solution but you can see what next weeks conquest is, check with the top guilds (most servers have a few which you know are going to win or are likely too) and then join one the week prior who are going for the planet you want the achievement from if multiple of the top guilds are going for it move chars into each of those guilds

 

I think Bioware kinda lowkey wants to disincentives guild hopping as well although that's just me speculating

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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these are great changes and I am happy that you guys are looking at things from this viewpoint and adjusting appropriately, on the contrary from the previous poster I would also like to add that I think conquest is a part of the game that loads of players do and actively participate in, regular updates to increase QoL/gameplay is thus very much appricipated by a large portion of the playerbase

 

 

 

its a bit of a bandaid solution but you can see what next weeks conquest is, check with the top guilds (most servers have a few which you know are going to win or are likely too) and then join one the week prior who are going for the planet you want the achievement from if multiple of the top guilds are going for it move chars into each of those guilds

 

I think Bioware kinda lowkey wants to disincentives guild hopping as well although that's just me speculating

 

Good point and for the most part I'm all for discouraging aberrant guild hopping myself. Thankfully I have all of my conqueror achievements but I'm in a tight knit guild that focuses on raiding as opposed to Conquest so whenever there's an expansion with a new planet, we put toons elsewhere for the first week it's available.

 

Guess it will just take more careful planning next time Bioware adds one.

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These sound like really good changes and it's great to see that you've listened to feedback. :)

 

However I am not sure this will address the issue of large guilds invading Small Yield planets, accumulating hundreds of millions of points and effectively blocking any chance of smaller guilds from competing entirely.

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New Character Grace Period

... It is important to note that this Grace Period is per character, and not account. If a player already has a character in a Guild, and is bringing an alternate character into the Guild, the Grace Period only applies to that alternate character, and not all characters from that Legacy. Equally as important to note is that this Grace Period will also apply to all new Guilds being formed.

 

Of all the changes made, this bit is complete poodoo, especially where it is per character and NOT tied to the players legacy, let alone knee-capping any new guild(s) right off the bat. If I already have alts in a guild that are past this "grace period", then any subsequent alts I bring in should be exempt, or you just limited my time in game that week because I'd just be spinning my wheels and not being fully rewarded for it.

 

I would also point out that you are still effectively screwing over any player(s) that were bounced, regardless of reasons, so now they not only do not get the previous guild reward for their contributions, but also have to wait yet another week to start working on CQ again? That could be a 2 week gap if some nefarious GM/officer bounced a character late Monday night or early Tuesday morning, bounced player then logs in at some later point to not only find themselves unguilded, and not being rewarded for the previous weeks efforts, and has to not only find a new guild, but also wait another entire week to contribute or be rewarded. Way to rub salt in those wounds.

 

If you really wanted to make this universally fair, yet aimed at the more questionable activities of larger guilds, make this "grace period" only apply to guilds that exceeded 30* million the previous week, and/or had more than 30* unique legacies in the guild (that were active in the last 30 days - guilds should not be handicapped for maintaining inactive alumni, and forcing them to be gkicked just to meet this requirement would not just be unreasonable, but downright and unnecessarily nasty).

(*arbitrary numbers, but a decent starting point IMO)

 

Better yet, Fix the problem, not the blame!

Quit throwing cause & effect grenades at players because of a system that is still largely broken.

 

Edited by Kaveat
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I completely disagree with rule 1, making people wait a hole week is way way to long maybe 24 hours no more. But I do agree with rule 2.

 

Also the only way to get rid of macro's is to take away all continuous crafting rewards and harvesting rewards and replace them with weekly's

Edited by OpRaideN
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take away all continuous crafting rewards and harvesting rewards and replace them with weekly's

 

Nope, not going down that road again. too many of us have day jobs that allow us to do fits and starts of daily activity, but (usually) not anything requiring to much focus or prolonged combat. On a conference /bridge call where not much relevant to you is happening, but still need to be able to drop everything at a single word to refocus on whatever issue they are directing you to? Ok, time to craft and/or gather.

 

Take away crafting /harvesting, and the relevant rewards for doing them... there goes 80% of a lot of peoples "play time", and in a world where work at home is now a common thing, that is a very costly move to make.

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Also the only way to get rid of macro's is to take away all continuous crafting rewards and harvesting rewards and replace them with weekly's

 

Basically this!

 

There is no problem with crafting an Invasion Force and a Dark Project per day. But the infinitely repeatable stuff makes people use macros. They set up their macros, then they go away from their computer, let their macros craft -> done.

 

There is another question regarding to that. Where do people get the materials from? While I do not want to point fingers at specific people, because I simply don't know, the chances of people going to credit sellers to finance their mats is high.

 

btw: I have no issue with removing conquest points from kicked players. The grace period seems to leave some questions though.

Edited by Airtiger
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...take away all continuous crafting rewards and harvesting rewards and replace them with weekly's

 

Harvesting cq objective is capped by the respawn rate on resource nodes + u need 10 nodes for single harvesting objective to proc so i dont see a problem there as u cannot stay in single spot just turning around clicking the nodes. Youre lucky if you find two within 15meters of each other, also it takes 3-5 minutes for resource nodes to respawn so i dont see a problem with that because clearly as ppl play on planets, they gather materials as they go and explore.

 

As for crafting itself - it clearly costs a lot of time time and money to prepare for big crafting push, not something you can do just whenever you please and imo it actually allows smaller guilds to make a big push for conquest that can easily overcome larger guilds so that shouldnt be touched either.

 

Conquest objectives are actually very well balanced these days imo.

Edited by Darittha
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So my 4 man operation has to suffer because the mega guilds are abusing something? Great. Thanks a ton. Guess I won't make any more alts now either, giving me even less to do in game.

So, you're saying that you won't make any alts merely because they can't get a conquest reward one week?

Seems a little bit of an overreaction. 🤷*♂️

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Harvesting cq objective is capped by the respawn rate on resource nodes + u need 10 nodes for single harvesting objective to proc so i dont see a problem there as u cannot stay in single spot just turning around clicking the nodes. Youre lucky if you find two within 15meters of each other, also it takes 3-5 minutes for resource nodes to respawn so i dont see a problem with that because clearly as ppl play on planets, they gather materials as they go and explore.

 

As for crafting itself - it clearly costs a lot of time time and money to prepare for big crafting push, not something you can do just whenever you please and imo it actually allows smaller guilds to make a big push for conquest that can easily overcome larger guilds so that shouldnt be touched either.

 

Conquest objectives are actually very well balanced these days imo.

 

 

Crafting is rewarded by the fact that You craft something already, why does it need limitless conquest instead of daily capped conquest? You also do missions and ther things daily with daily rewards, that also takes MORE effort and time.

 

Otherwise, just like in the Casino event, what prevents anyone from using a click bot that does the "hard" job for me like some other guilds do and earn conquest unlike those who actually do a community activity?

 

Did You install a 50 GB game for crafting for hours or to shoot lasers and impale Jedis/Siths with Your lightsaber?

If its for the robotic and repetitive former, it should be prevented from being rewarded for said Bot problem.

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Nope, not going down that road again. too many of us have day jobs that allow us to do fits and starts of daily activity, but (usually) not anything requiring to much focus or prolonged combat. On a conference /bridge call where not much relevant to you is happening, but still need to be able to drop everything at a single word to refocus on whatever issue they are directing you to? Ok, time to craft and/or gather.

 

Take away crafting /harvesting, and the relevant rewards for doing them... there goes 80% of a lot of peoples "play time", and in a world where work at home is now a common thing, that is a very costly move to make.

 

So you want marco's to be apart of the game then because this is the only solution unless you have a better one

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Harvesting cq objective is capped by the respawn rate on resource nodes + u need 10 nodes for single harvesting objective to proc so i dont see a problem there as u cannot stay in single spot just turning around clicking the nodes. Youre lucky if you find two within 15meters of each other, also it takes 3-5 minutes for resource nodes to respawn so i dont see a problem with that because clearly as ppl play on planets, they gather materials as they go and explore.

 

As for crafting itself - it clearly costs a lot of time time and money to prepare for big crafting push, not something you can do just whenever you please and imo it actually allows smaller guilds to make a big push for conquest that can easily overcome larger guilds so that shouldnt be touched either.

 

Conquest objectives are actually very well balanced these days imo.

 

your missing the underground mode botting problem & the crafting botting problem with that quote

Edited by OpRaideN
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Good afternoon, David.

 

This will definitely help with massive guilds that recruit and kick members week to week to bolster their numbers.

 

But how will this affect people trying to earn their Planetary Conqueror achievements and titles? It is very common on Star Forge for players to join guilds taking over a planet so they can earn the achievement even if it's not with their primary guild.

 

Perhaps this itself was considered an exploit but I am curious the devs thoughts. This would imply that there is no longer a way to earn one of those titles if you joined the guild AFTER they invaded the planet, correct?

 

This also my concern as well, especially since you can only guess the week before what guilds will even attempt for certain planets. If you let us have say a 3-4 day grace period instead of a week this problem could be avoided.

Edited by Toraak
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These changes look great to me. Especially the bit about when a toon is removed from a guild, those conquest points are also removed. I see that as one of those facepalm-obvious fixes.

The 'grace period' (odd name that, it's more of a 'probation period,' but whatever) is a more mixed bag. On one hand it discourages the toon-churn exploit, which is good; on the other hand, it might reduce the impetus behind recruiting. There is the question of Conqueror titles as well; I see it as legitimate to join a guild specifically for the purpose of gaining those titles. In general, though, the idea seems to be to encourage guilds and players to work toward building stable, productive relationships rather than get-rich-quick schemes - an idea which I'm all in favor of.

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As for the Crafting comments:

 

The majority of points earned in Conquest have little to do with the Crafting missions and Resource Nodes. While crafting War Supplies and Dark Projects will earn enough points to meet personal conquest very quickly, the larger guilds are NOT using macros alone to reach some of the massive 60 mil+ conquest points.

 

A lot of that is leveling, Ops/ Fps, Group Finder, PvP, GSF and the like.

 

I find that the only thing disrupted by the massive amount of craft supply farming is the gtn prices and availability of crafting materials these days. This is nothing like it was through 2017 and into 2018 where the crafting guilds broke Conquest during the Crafting Events.

 

----

 

Secondly, these changes don't affect the target number for the Yields. It's not going to make or break your target unless you're picking a target which requires your guild members to exceed a comfortable gaming contribution on a weekly basis.

 

I set the Conquest target for my own guild and we bounce between Medium and Large to make sure NO ONE is forced to scramble the last few days and grind out points. Yes, it involves logging in once or twice a week to check our goal, but once you get the hang of it you can look at the total points earned by your active players and have a pretty decent estimate on where you'll be by week's end.

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So you want marco's to be apart of the game then because this is the only solution unless you have a better one

 

Never said anything about macro's, you are the one making that leap. There are plenty of us who do crafting and harvesting legitimately, but by your own words you are as bad as the devs: lobbing cause and effect grenades at everyone, instead fixing the actual problem rather than pointing fingers and playing the blame game.

 

here, basic example for the class:

 

If player X has a legitimate complaint that conquest objective 3 is being abused by a macro/script kiddy, do not break the objective for everyone out of hand, instead put soft and hard caps (or diminishing returns) on the amount of points you can generate per character for that activity in a given day /week (some would argue "not a day, in the entire week - putting in daily gates is just as bad and alienating")

 

example:

 

Enter Player D. Player D works at home, and has a lot of idle time between "work events", but rather than sit completely idle they are harvesting and crafting between "work events".

 

Say Player D is on character 4 and has hit CQ by harvesting (50k), but not being done with work, and not yet ready to stop harvesting, they keep going.

 

But, at 50k in harvesting rewards, their CQ gain for harvesting is diminished by 10%. Hit 60k, -10% again, rinse & repeat until harvesting no longer yields any CQ for that character that week.

 

Guild still short on points, and you need to do some crafting ok - rinse & repeat for crafting (and any other activity with an infinitely repeatable goal). Every 10k in repeat points of the same activity beyond CQCAPxN is -10% until it bottoms out.

 

no more infinite points, yet still stays fair and within the confines of the existing system without draconian grenade effects that yield mixed results and salty /toxic sentiments.

 

There is no need to restrict account activity, and it remains imminently fair to alts for those that have more hours to play than others.

 

And so in their next work cycle, Player D gets on Character 5, rinse & repeat.

 

recap:

 

CQ Personal Goal = 50k

CQ Infinite diminishing return = CQPG @50k = -10% per +10k of CQP in that activity

- yes, this means more of an infinite activity at each step is required to reach the next one.

- Think "stair-master" for infinities

CQ Personal infinite Cap = 150k per objective per day/week

 

 

see, a very simple solution that resolves many issues yet really does not affect the average player.

 

Edited by Kaveat
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As others have expressed, I am not too pleased with the grace period applying to characters that I bring into my own guild. If I am adding one of my characters to my own guild with characters that have already exceeded the grace period then that new character should be exempt. Otherwise, I, and I am sure many others, will just create a new character, bring them into the guild, and then sit on them for a week unplayed due to this grace period. I think this would be better applied to accounts rather than a per character grace period. I also think that this should not be applied to new guilds and is unnecessarily punitive to someone who has been removed from a guild. As someone else pointed out, you are creating a situation wherein someone will be denied guild Conquest rewards for two weeks (potentially more) merely because they were removed from or left a guild. There are a number of reasons for someone to leave a guild, not the lease of which are toxic environments. This change has the potential to force someone to remain in a problematic guild in order to receive their guild Conquest rewards, and then leave after the weekly reset and try to get into another guild so that they can qualify for the next week's rewards.

 

I do like the move to removing points for removed characters.

 

I understand why you are making these changes, I am guessing it has something to do with the recent posts about guilds mass inviting players on starter worlds, but I do not like that the grace period is applied to our own characters that we bring into our own guilds, the impact that this will have on new guilds, and how punitive it could be for someone who is removed from or has left a guild.

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As for the Crafting comments:

 

The majority of points earned in Conquest have little to do with the Crafting missions and Resource Nodes. While crafting War Supplies and Dark Projects will earn enough points to meet personal conquest very quickly, the larger guilds are NOT using macros alone to reach some of the massive 60 mil+ conquest points.

 

A lot of that is leveling, Ops/ Fps, Group Finder, PvP, GSF and the like.

 

I find that the only thing disrupted by the massive amount of craft supply farming is the gtn prices and availability of crafting materials these days. This is nothing like it was through 2017 and into 2018 where the crafting guilds broke Conquest during the Crafting Events.

 

----

 

Secondly, these changes don't affect the target number for the Yields. It's not going to make or break your target unless you're picking a target which requires your guild members to exceed a comfortable gaming contribution on a weekly basis.

 

I set the Conquest target for my own guild and we bounce between Medium and Large to make sure NO ONE is forced to scramble the last few days and grind out points. Yes, it involves logging in once or twice a week to check our goal, but once you get the hang of it you can look at the total points earned by your active players and have a pretty decent estimate on where you'll be by week's end.

 

if u play hardcore u can get 8 mill with out crafting but adding those continuous marcos crafting then it just goes off the charts

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