Seeping Wound is far from useless for PVE.

 

It gives you a very reliable way to use Savage Kick on CD.

 

Savage Kick is, for all intents and purposes, free damage, and definitely a hard enough hitter to be worth the GCD due to the 0 rage cost.

 

Empowerment and Malice are far greater than Seeping wound and Phantom.

But to each their own, it's like I told him, I don't hate his build.. .it's just not the one I would use for myself.

Empowerment and Malice are far greater than Seeping wound and Phantom.

But to each their own, it's like I told him, I don't hate his build.. .it's just not the one I would use for myself.

 

First off, too each their own indeed.

 

That said...

 

Empowerment, absolutely, would drop Phantom for it in a second.

 

Malice, I'm not so sure...

 

If you have perfect bleed uptime (unrealistic, would require proccing Rupture every 6s), you could have up to 70 bleed ticks in a minute (40 from Rupture, 30 from Deadly Sabers). 3% crit increase would yield an extra 2.1 crits. There is no other significant component of Annihilation's rotation which deals Force damage.

 

Purely from a damage perspective, if Seeping Wound makes using Savage Kick one more time per minute of combat time feasible, it's a massive advantage over Malice.

 

If you're mainly doing dailies, etc. it's a no-brainer. If you're doing a lot of Ops and fighting primarily mobs not vulnerable to Savage Kick, it's a different story entirely.

 

Totally YMMV.

Wow. I also didnt know the set bonuses are attached to the Armorings

 

EDIT: I got to thinking. On my Sentinel, I'm in half BM and half WH. My chest piece is the level 40 pvp one with all the BM chest mods in it, but when I mouse over my gear it still shows me having 4/5 pieces of that set.

 

Was this a recent change? Or am I missing something?

Edited August 10, 2012 by Tommot

I play a carnage marauder. Currently I have almost a full battlemaster set, and all pieces augmented.

I will try to grind all the money necessary to build this vindicator gear on orange armor and see how it does. Currently my damage is not better than anihilation, but after leveleng from level 10 to 50 in Carnage tree is pretty hard to get used to another spec, only reason I don't changed.

Wow. I also didnt know the set bonuses are attached to the Armorings

 

EDIT: I got to thinking. On my Sentinel, I'm in half BM and half WH. My chest piece is the level 40 pvp one with all the BM chest mods in it, but when I mouse over my gear it still shows me having 4/5 pieces of that set.

 

Was this a recent change? Or am I missing something?

 

Only War Hero and Campaign have the bonus on the Armoring, everything below them it's on the shells.

Seeping Wound is far from useless for PVE.

 

It gives you a very reliable way to use Savage Kick on CD.

 

Savage Kick is, for all intents and purposes, free damage, and definitely a hard enough hitter to be worth the GCD due to the 0 rage cost.

 

You could use just savage kick after force charge.

You could use just savage kick after force charge.

 

Absolutely an option, but their CDs don't line up, and FC isn't worth saving to use just to enable SK after the initial leap into a group of mobs.

 

And, when feasible, SK *is* worth using to CD, because it does beastly amounts of yellow damage at no cost other than 1 GCD.

Only War Hero and Campaign have the bonus on the Armoring, everything below them it's on the shells.

 

This has always been a grey area for me. I would like it if they could make this much more obvious by looking at the gear and/or mods.

 

Another thing that confuses me is the number in parenthesis next to the item modifications. It doesn't seem to be tied to level so not sure what it is supposed to indicate.

This has always been a grey area for me. I would like it if they could make this much more obvious by looking at the gear and/or mods.

 

Another thing that confuses me is the number in parenthesis next to the item modifications. It doesn't seem to be tied to level so not sure what it is supposed to indicate.

 

Indicates the item level.

 

The required level to equip for item modifications is one lower than their item level, except at 50.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Omophorus

And rage is better than both.

you're gaining 4% dps more cuz of vindicator armoring but you're losing about 8% cuz of undying rage bigger cooldown so its not equal

you're gaining 4% dps more cuz of vindicator armoring but you're losing about 8% cuz of undying rage bigger cooldown so its not equal

 

Wrong. I never need to use Undying Rage on CD. In fact, 95% of the time I actually need it, it's up. You know what I am using on CD? Force Charge.

And rage is better than both.

 

LOL K WHO IS THIS JOKER?!?!

 

Wrong. I never need to use Undying Rage on CD. In fact, 95% of the time I actually need it, it's up. You know what I am using on CD? Force Charge.

 

 

This is pretty true.

Irrelevant, bosses have 100's of thousands of hit points to burn through. PVP players have just 15 - 20,000. Can any of the Annihilation marauders down a 100% health (but badly geared) enemy in 3 seconds? That's just long enough to get off deadly saber, rupture and annihilate.

 

Carnage gets more roots and the best speed buff in the game, not to mention its a little less easy to play, Annihilation is just a faceroll fest.

 

Carnage is much more simplistic.

Carnage is much more simplistic.

 

Lol... You're joking? Annihilation is far simpler plus you don't have to manage your defensive cooldowns near as well to be effective. The difference between an average Annihilation Marauder and an amazing one is minimal, whereas the difference between an average Carnage Marauder and an Amazing one is night and day.

Lol... You're joking? Annihilation is far simpler plus you don't have to manage your defensive cooldowns near as well to be effective. The difference between an average Annihilation Marauder and an amazing one is minimal, whereas the difference between an average Carnage Marauder and an Amazing one is night and day.

 

Are you joking? Spamming massacre is hard.

Are you joking? Spamming massacre is hard.

 

So is spamming Rupture / Annihilate.

 

/shrug

So is spamming Rupture / Annihilate.

 

/shrug

 

lol win.

So is spamming Rupture / Annihilate.

 

/shrug

 

You have to keep on top of your cooldowns as Annihilation.

You have to keep on top of your cooldowns as Annihilation.

 

What Cooldowns? You mean Rupture and Deadly Saber? Yes, you should be spamming your DAMAGING abilities on CD's, just like Carnage Mara's need to use Gore and Force Scream on CD...

 

"Hi, Annihilation Marauders have to actually to be on top of using their damaging abilities on CD more than any other class"

 

WHAT?

You have to keep on top of your cooldowns as Annihilation.

 

I'm fairly certain that you have to do that as every single class in this game, including every spec of Marauder.

 

I'm not one of those people who tries to say that one spec is "easier" than another simply because I enjoy playing Carnage, but I can at least be honest about neither spec being "harder" than the other.

 

I will say, however, that it is MUCH easier to top scoreboards (lol, like this matters) as Annihilation if you're savvy w/ your Rupture spam. Some misinformed people like to equate this to Annihilation being a "better" spec.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Varicite

Admittedly, I haven't played carnage much, but I do think Anni is a little harder to dps as.

 

Things Carnage has to worry about while dpsing:

Gore CD

Force Scream CD

Pooling rage for Beserk - Massacre spam

 

Things Anni has to worry about:

Anni Stacks when starting rotation - you have a small window to go from 1 stack to 2. This also comes into play for bosses with breaks in damage - where you have no choice but to let stacks fall, messing up your rotation

Rage pooling for anni - 5 rage for your main dd attack is not trivial

Rupture CD

Deadly Saber CD

Clipping the Rupture dot when Pulverize procs

Using charge as a rage builder vs. needing to use it for mobility - Bosses like Gharj, Foreman come to mind

 

I didn't include battering assault or assault vs vicious/massacre because both specs deal with those, although I'd ague that assault vs. vicious is a more important decision for anni because of the rage requirement on anni.

 

These aren't huge differences, but I do think anni has much more to worry about to reach top dps. Of course, I have little experience with Carnage, so maybe I'm missing some tricks to the carnage rotation.

Edited August 28, 2012 by DarkbladeZZ

It's hard to explain, I've played both extensively and I just know that Annihilation easier. Any DPS rotation becomes second nature as you play a spec enough. With Carnage you have to use your abilities perfectly to get results, not just DPS, but your roots, your CC, your defensive CD's. Carnage Marauders don't have a self heal, we have to rely on timing everything perfectly because we don't have the luxury of self healing. We don't have a shorter Force Charge CD. We can't charge at 0 meters. I can tell you right now that even I had trouble adjusting to the playstyle of Carnage because the difference between the two's survivability is night and day but if you can master the damage, master the defensive CD's, and can peel properly for your healer the endgame reward is significantly greater.

Interesting conversation. It has been in my experience that newer Sentinels in my guild prefer Combat for the simple sake that it's easier to play. For myself, even after more than half a year of playing Annihilation and a month of Combat, if I feel tired after a day of work I go Combat for fun. If I feel rested, I go Annihilation. Might just be one of my idiosyncrasies I suppose, but Annihilation (at least to me) feels more taxing to play optimally.

 

 

It's hard to explain, I've played both extensively and I just know that Annihilation easier. Any DPS rotation becomes second nature as you play a spec enough. With Carnage you have to use your abilities perfectly to get results, not just DPS, but your roots, your CC, your defensive CD's. Carnage Marauders don't have a self heal, we have to rely on timing everything perfectly because we don't have the luxury of self healing. We don't have a shorter Force Charge CD. We can't charge at 0 meters. I can tell you right now that even I had trouble adjusting to the playstyle of Carnage because the difference between the two's survivability is night and day but if you can master the damage, master the defensive CD's, and can peel properly for your healer the endgame reward is significantly greater.

 

I would argue that is it because of the exact reason you stated that Annihilation is harder. As Carnage, you know you probably can't solo a node with 2 people guarding it. However as Annihilation, you can do so (by blowing all of your cooldowns) - but you also must do so with almost perfection by timing everything correctly.

 

There's also the nuances to the spec that simply don't exist in carnage spec.

 

Does the shadow have Resilience up? Can't pop Zen until you get your stacks up again. See someone holding a hutball? Make Rupture your first priority refresh for a perma-slow.

 

Also, keep note that very few Annihilation marauders use the 0 CD Leap. And Carnage makes up for it with the snare on Crippling Throw.

 

Long story short, maybe its because I've played Annihilation longer than Carnage, but there are just subtle moves in Annihilation that really make it difficult to play at the highest level. Carnage is fun, but what most people are saying is that Carnage marauders have no room for error - which isn't exactly true. If I mess up my Precision Slash (or the Imp equivalent), my Blade Storm still hits for 4k. Accidentally press Zen? Don't worry, the 6 stacks aren't going anywhere.

 

I think both specs are equally viable and good, but it has just been in my experience (and those of my guildies) that Annihilation, while may not be harder per say, but just more taxing.

 

P.S Please forgive my usage of Republic terms. I'm better versed in Sentinel attacks than I am with Marauder ones

Edited August 28, 2012 by -Yui-

It's hard to explain, I've played both extensively and I just know that Annihilation easier. Any DPS rotation becomes second nature as you play a spec enough. With Carnage you have to use your abilities perfectly to get results, not just DPS, but your roots, your CC, your defensive CD's. Carnage Marauders don't have a self heal, we have to rely on timing everything perfectly because we don't have the luxury of self healing. We don't have a shorter Force Charge CD. We can't charge at 0 meters. I can tell you right now that even I had trouble adjusting to the playstyle of Carnage because the difference between the two's survivability is night and day but if you can master the damage, master the defensive CD's, and can peel properly for your healer the endgame reward is significantly greater.

 

I'm referrring to pve.