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[Guide] Tips for Newer GSF Players

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
[Guide] Tips for Newer GSF Players

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
07.08.2015 , 01:54 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Magira View Post
You should stop. Disto lures new players into the RNG trap rather than relying on their own strengths.
Stop trolling the thread.

Disto for the missile break alone is critical for the Type 1 gunship. Power dive on the Type 3 makes feedback or directional possible (I'd argue still inferior to disto, but at least feasible). Fortress shield gunships are free kills unless the opposition is useless or the gunship's team is farming the other side. In either of those scenarios, builds no longer matter.
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

MiaowZedong's Avatar


MiaowZedong
07.08.2015 , 02:07 PM | #32
And about the RNG...it's been said before so for any newbie who's interested, I'll just leave links.

Verain's post
Ramalina's post
My post with the graph

CommanderKiko's Avatar


CommanderKiko
07.08.2015 , 03:12 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Fractalsponge View Post
Stop trolling the thread.

Disto for the missile break alone is critical for the Type 1 gunship. Power dive on the Type 3 makes feedback or directional possible (I'd argue still inferior to disto, but at least feasible). Fortress shield gunships are free kills unless the opposition is useless or the gunship's team is farming the other side. In either of those scenarios, builds no longer matter.
I would debate this. Fortress in gunship duels can win 2v1 gunship duels. I see it happen often. The issue is that the gunship that is dueling now has to rely on heavier cover to swat scouts away. Meaning that the gunship's primary lock break will actually be its team, rather than a component. The fortress GS still has the ability to disable and destroy agro bombers and strikers at range, and can still aid in its own defense at close range thanks to BLC.

another issue that comes of using fortress, however, is that you aren't relying on an evade miss to soak up your damage. Any sheild bleed still hurts you, so you really need to be near a repair drone.

In short:
DF gunships are very superior in a generalized self sufficient way.
Fortress GS are more specialized to kill other gunships, but are in dire need of good team support.
Seeing as GSF is a team based game either is viable.
GM of Defiant Industries LLC (GSF/PvP)
GM of Defiant Security Services (GSF, new)
- Kik˛, Bastion.

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
07.08.2015 , 03:24 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKiko View Post
I would debate this. Fortress in gunship duels can win 2v1 gunship duels. I see it happen often.
And I've landed ten protorps in a single match. Doesn't make it a good component.

I've also seen plenty of fortress gunships die because they have no defense other than large amounts of shields. They generally forget that ion can carve through shields, slug can partially ignore shields, and protorps can fully ignore shields.

Again, your options come down to stand and die, or run and lose your shields and die.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
07.08.2015 , 03:29 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKiko View Post
I would debate this. Fortress in gunship duels can win 2v1 gunship duels. I see it happen often.
...
Fortress GS are more specialized to kill other gunships, but are in dire need of good team support.
Sorry, absolutely not. 2v1? Not against T1s (the most common kind by far), because T1 Gunship duels at the top end depend on one thing: who hits first. Why? Because the lead shot is Ion Railgun. The first shot will stop regen and bleed off most weapon pool. A repeated hit means the target is sitting there useless. After that, it doesn't matter how much residual shield it may have (also it just got hit twice by ion, so it probably won't have much shield left). Fortress shield gunships will probably not have any real evasion chance, so it's going to get hit, and once it does, it's going to die unless someone helps it. 2v1? Not even a chance.

The difference between evasion stacking and shield stacking in a gunship duel is not a question of X% of evasion giving X% reduced damage. It's about evasion giving you 1-X% chance to live and not need to respawn, while fortress doesn't actually give you any real protection against being drained, and thus snared, and thus dead.
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Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
07.08.2015 , 03:52 PM | #36
Just going to throw my opinion in the ring on the fortress shield debate going on.

Fortress shield is indeed only good vs inferior pilots.

Vs Scouts it makes you a sitting duck as Armond described above, as long as the scout knows to never let the fortress Gunship line it up even if it's using rotationals the Scout always wins.

Vs T2-T3 Gunships it can win you some 1v1 duels because of your superior shield total. This is where everyone seems to think Fortress shield is good, the problem is that the T2-T3 Gunships are already sacrificing Gunship dueling power so you're just adding the ability to win an already one sided match up more.

Vs T1 Gunships you just plain lose because of the nature of the Ion railgun duels. T1 Gunship vs T1 Gunship duels equate to who lands 2 Ion's first, some players go for the quick kill of Ion > Slug but for the most part it's all about landing those 2 Ion's. Fortress Gunships always eat the first two because they don't have to evasion to dodge one, Distortion Gunships have the chance to win even if they don't get the first shot in because of RNG.


These are the big reasons why most top end Gunships use Distortion. The ability to run to teammates and dodge enemy Gunships Ion's are the big plus'. A few players opt to use Feedback, this is a meta choice as it can be very good at killing Scouts but even this is still in the minority.


Magira talked about how Fortress shield is "easier" to use for a newer player. I don't think this is true at all, it might be easier mecanically but teaching yourself to just hold still and tank damage because you have bigger shields is really awful for your learning curve.
DrakolichDrakolÝch
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CommanderKiko's Avatar


CommanderKiko
07.08.2015 , 04:04 PM | #37
You realize im not defending the validity of the component or saying "it is greatest thing since sliced bread and is far superior to DF in every way," no, I'm saying it is viable and has its place.

A fortress GS is specialized to rarely move, get hit, and not die. Against type 2/3 gunships, the fortress sheild can, has, and will usually win 2v1

The math may not lie, but it wont always tell the full story. Looking at the reality of gameplay, and taking into account that fortress gunships are less mobile you can see how it can be useful. It's likely that the 2v1 will come to them, not the other way around, meaning that the fortress will use its weakness to its own advantage - it will land the first hit, with a higher charge. Most GS pairs run "quarrel/condor" pairs. one for ion assist generation, the other for slug kill and close range support. Quarrel goes first, condor goes second. They don't fire at the same time, they don't begin charge at the same time, they don't die at the same time. Fortress can soak up an ion hit and a slug hit np. Painful asit may be, that is how it was designed.

One type 1 against two type 1's is always going to lose in equal skill, no matter what viable builds each craft is using - and no matter the ship class. Your argument of "oh no it can't" is invalidated by its own point. A DF single quarrel vs 2 DF quarrels wouldn't win in the same hypothetical perfect world situation when the only thing that mattered was math either. The most basic example I can state is this, 2 is a bigger number than 1. Multiplying something x1 and that same something x2 will lead to the x2 having a bigger number.

However, in real play, a fortress sheild type 1 GS has a higher chance of winning a 2v1 gunship duel against DF type 1's and either a type 2/t3 than a DF type 1 GS, and as true 1v1's or 2v1's never really happen in GSF, you had better believe that the Fortress GS will know its own weaknesses, and sit near enough to a drone to help with its sheild bleed. Meaaning that although fortress is far from an excellent component, it is still viable, it can still win 2v1 gunship dues, from what I have seen will do so more often than a DF GS.

I'm not debating that it is still "bad," "niche," or "not meta." All of those are true, meta is meta for a reason and niche components are niche for a reason. That being said, discarding all niche components as trash or not viable is equally as wrong. For in real play, everything has a use to some degree.
GM of Defiant Industries LLC (GSF/PvP)
GM of Defiant Security Services (GSF, new)
- Kik˛, Bastion.

CommanderKiko's Avatar


CommanderKiko
07.08.2015 , 04:15 PM | #38
In short, fortresses only real advantage is that it forces you to adopt an unconventional tactic.

That doesn't make the component good, it's still bad, very bad, but it at least makes it viable as the tactic it is forced to adopt will put it in the position to always land the first hit.
GM of Defiant Industries LLC (GSF/PvP)
GM of Defiant Security Services (GSF, new)
- Kik˛, Bastion.

MiaowZedong's Avatar


MiaowZedong
07.08.2015 , 04:28 PM | #39
This thread is for newer GSF players to see a concise explanation of why common egregious mistakes are bad. The OP delivers this, can we please not spam the thread with double-posted convoluted self-justifications which don't belong here?

CommanderKiko's Avatar


CommanderKiko
07.08.2015 , 04:37 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaowZedong View Post
This thread is for newer GSF players to see a concise explanation of why common egregious mistakes are bad. The OP delivers this, can we please not spam the thread with double-posted convoluted self-justifications which don't belong here?
It belongs here and I only spoke up because people on both sides of the debate were glossing over a point. Which is that DF is the better choice hands down, but fortress can be better for newer players in helping them learn how to use their ship

Example:
1 newb in a type 1 gunship rolling fortress against intermediate players rolling type 2/type 3's.
Newb takes more damage, doesn't feel as useless, practices aim, has a higher survival chance.

Stacking the deck in favor of a newer player against non-aces. In training Lace'dwith, I explained the sheild options to him and encouraged him to go DF, he opted for Fortress sheild as he only really used his quarrel to fight type 2 and type 3 gunships. It worked for him. Although in my mind - and many others - it would have been wasted req, for him it served to advance his training and help him learn the class.

It worked for him, it works for others, it shouldn't be discarded.
GM of Defiant Industries LLC (GSF/PvP)
GM of Defiant Security Services (GSF, new)
- Kik˛, Bastion.