You come to regs and farm numbers ignoring objectives like you will get a serious disease if you get any obj points.

You pass the huttball to each other to make sure it goes the full 15 minutes.

You clear mid, but won't bother to cap it because that will ruin your numbers.

You ruin the game for those of us who enjoy the SWTOR pvp experience.

 

The "ranked" players destroy pvp in this game and laugh at those of us who enjoy objectives and are actually trying to win the game. I hate you on my team however going against you isn't a big deal because I know it will be a guaranteed win. You have all the excuses:

"Obj's don't matter lawlwlawlalwlawlwlw"

"Practicing for ranked"

"Oh we could win if we wanted to"

"Just want to kill stuff"

 

Traveling around in your little packs destroying lone players or farming spawn points. Running around like bots from red guy to red guy, drooling and panting like dogs. So how is this fun for anyone? Go to pve and fight bosses if all you care about are numbers. No, you have to prove yourselves with your numbers in regs. This is a battle royale to you and that is all. Just like you hate the reg players in ranked, we hate you in regs and wish you would stop queuing.

 

I honestly wish they would just get rid of numbers at the end of the match so you would have no reason to come into warzones with your trolling attitudes. I could go on and on with my frustrations in a game I find fun, but the people (farmers) are ruining it. Sure this game has bugs and faults but I really, really enjoy the pvp when both teams are playing to win. Why can't you do both? Why have you created this "collective" attitude in which objectives are only for "bad" players.

 

Defend yourselves all you want, but you guys have decided that you are winners only if you get highest on the scoreboard and by so doing you've done your part. Gone are the guilds that you were scared to go against because it was gonna be a hard win. IMO you can't handle losing if you actually tried to win the game so you ignore everything because now you can say "We weren't trying."

 

I remember "epic" pvp matches with the underdog pulling off amazing comebacks! Or even matches where we win by the skin of our teeth in a huttball where everyone is taking advantage of the traps and using any means to stop the opposing team! But it seems everything is devolving to "hur hur" press my buttons harder! It is so infuriatingly disappointing!

 

We want our game back.

Pvp these days is too hard for most people to play properly

 

These are the people who are in pvp these days

 

1. Can’t dps, so only play objectives and run from the fight if there is more than one or they might die.

2. Can’t play objectives, so only concentrate on dps

3. Can’t dps (kill anything) or play objectives, so run in big packs playing follow the leader all over the map

 

None of the above are good pvpers. It doesn’t matter how big their score board dps targets are or how many objective points they get. They are just bad, any of their excuses are lame and completely laughable.

 

The last type of pvpers are now extremely rare in this game.

4. Can do good dps and can play objectives properly by using tactics and strategy to win.

 

IMHO, people who fall into category 4 are the only true pvpers in this game. They are certainly the only good pvpers in this game because you don’t need to limit yourself to only playing one way to top the scoreboard in either dps or objective points.

 

In the old days we knew that the fighting would be at the nodes because the only way to win was holding or capturing the objectives. We all did good dps and good objective points because fighting at the objectives and not in the middle of no where should go hand in hand. The enemy will go to you or you to them.

 

People can’t seem to grasp this most simple concept, if you want to win and do good dps, fight where you are needed to win the game. It’s not rocket science. So when I see the excuses people say for not playing the objectives, I know they are bad because if they were good, they could do both at once.

 

Good pvpers can do good dps numbers and play the objectives in a tactical and strategic way to win. Anything else is a direct reflection on their own skills and ability to pvp. Excuses are for people who are inadequate.

I used to get salty over these types of games.

It seems i was always consistently on the losing side of the kill farmers.

It does suck it does ruin matches and the overall pvp experience for averagely skilled players.

No one can deny that.

 

But at the end of the day its a game and people should be entitled to play it in any manner they choose.

Even if the game does have a system to follow to win (objectives) and these are being ignored. That's still a strategy, if a poor one.

 

Its very rare to get full teams of kill farmers in regs now,

Sometimes it can feel like you're being kill farmed but that's just bad matchmaking most of the time.

 

The core of the issue there is allowing people to group for PvP.

Its something that doesn't make sense to me. I know its an MMORPG but PvP is also called "Player VS Player" not PsVP (PlayerS vs PlayER) and i think in allowing groups to queue together is soliciting PsVP over PVP a bit, which is stupid.

 

The literal title of the game suggests its based on individual skill and not group skill.

But with cq objectives relating to group pvp queues and just generally the way the games set up, its not about to change any time soon and while your post was fun to read, accurate and to the point, its almost wasted at this stage. PvP is ruined and they clearly have absolutely no idea how or how to fix it because none of them actually play the game.

But at the end of the day its a game and people should be entitled to play it in any manner they choose.

Even if the game does have a system to follow to win (objectives) and these are being ignored. That's still a strategy, if a poor one.

 

I don't agree with this part. In my opinion, just about everything in life has a working set of rules that are meant to be followed. If you don't follow those rules, typically there are consequences. Unfortunately, there are no consequences here.

 

Now, case in point, these war zones have a ruleset that participating players are meant to follow in order to win. Yes, it's arguable, certainly, that attacking hard and non-stop could be considered a viable strategy. After all, keeping many players on the opposing side busy dealing with part of your teams' attacks allows other players to assist via following that war zones' ruleset and winning the game. But this is only true if the goal behind it was to win.

 

My main issue is that the farmers do not care to win in a team based game. People are depending on each other to work together and pull off the win. If you go in there and simply do not care about anyone nor anything and even purposefully lose the game (ie, not stopping a node cap), then this is simply trolling, in my opinion. Just like in PvE where someone can run and pull bosses before people are ready or purposefully tanking a boss and facing him to the group. Now, in that 2nd scenario, they can be kicked, albeit they've succeeded in trolling everyone and wasting people's time. In PvP, there is no option to kick (which is probably a good thing considering how it could be abused), and so the trolling goes unchecked.

 

It's just a sad state of affairs and I don't know how to fix it. Perhaps removing the numbers at the end is one possible way. Not sure. But with the apparent abundance of this type of behavior, it makes me quite disappointed that these people simply cannot be bothered to care. =\ Not sure I can blame Bioware (or expect some kind of fix) when it's people that are ruining an otherwise fantastic PvP experience.

Rewards based on winning that is also tied to a new or rejuvenated medal system.

 

Medals wouldn’t be map generic. They would represent the map type and the objectives as well as individuals medals for contributing to your team..

 

The reward system would be based on if you won (you would get a medal boost).

Then how many medals you get for actually contributing to the win.

 

In some circumstances, someone on the losing team could even get more rewards than someone on the losing team because they contributed more to their team’s effort to try and win.

 

Of course, the rewards would need to be something worth striving for or other wise you end up where we are now that losing teams get nearly the same participation rewards as the winners. So these bad players don’t really care if they win or lose these day.

 

Maybe there needs to be a reg pvp vendor, like there is a ranked pvp vendor. One reward could be a special currency like PvP Comms , like the old days. This would also allow you to accumulate them in lowbies and Mids as you lvl up. Which is then a win for everyone because it encourages people to learn lowbies and Mids and not max lvl. Plus it also revitalises those brackets and gives people another avenue to lvl up Alts again.

Edited July 4, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

You come to regs and farm numbers ignoring objectives like you will get a serious disease if you get any obj points.

You pass the huttball to each other to make sure it goes the full 15 minutes.

You clear mid, but won't bother to cap it because that will ruin your numbers.

You ruin the game for those of us who enjoy the SWTOR pvp experience.

 

The "ranked" players destroy pvp in this game and laugh at those of us who enjoy objectives and are actually trying to win the game. I hate you on my team however going against you isn't a big deal because I know it will be a guaranteed win. You have all the excuses:

"Obj's don't matter lawlwlawlalwlawlwlw"

"Practicing for ranked"

"Oh we could win if we wanted to"

"Just want to kill stuff"

 

Traveling around in your little packs destroying lone players or farming spawn points. Running around like bots from red guy to red guy, drooling and panting like dogs. So how is this fun for anyone? Go to pve and fight bosses if all you care about are numbers. No, you have to prove yourselves with your numbers in regs. This is a battle royale to you and that is all. Just like you hate the reg players in ranked, we hate you in regs and wish you would stop queuing.

 

I honestly wish they would just get rid of numbers at the end of the match so you would have no reason to come into warzones with your trolling attitudes. I could go on and on with my frustrations in a game I find fun, but the people (farmers) are ruining it. Sure this game has bugs and faults but I really, really enjoy the pvp when both teams are playing to win. Why can't you do both? Why have you created this "collective" attitude in which objectives are only for "bad" players.

 

Defend yourselves all you want, but you guys have decided that you are winners only if you get highest on the scoreboard and by so doing you've done your part. Gone are the guilds that you were scared to go against because it was gonna be a hard win. IMO you can't handle losing if you actually tried to win the game so you ignore everything because now you can say "We weren't trying."

 

I remember "epic" pvp matches with the underdog pulling off amazing comebacks! Or even matches where we win by the skin of our teeth in a huttball where everyone is taking advantage of the traps and using any means to stop the opposing team! But it seems everything is devolving to "hur hur" press my buttons harder! It is so infuriatingly disappointing!

 

We want our game back.

 

As one of those ranked players you refer to i must say: I play the game as i want, i payed sub and i will play as i want. Same gibberish is said by noobs who get globalled in ranked and don't want to listen. At least after being severely flamed and vote kicked they go to regs to learn their rotation. Regs is actually the only pvp place where noobs can learn at least basics of their classes and rotation in order to do AT LEAST SOMETHING IN FUTURE RANKED GAMES.

 

Going pve wont help them to learn anything since pvp and pve are absolutely different. They will never learn how to use defenses properly or when to use cc's, stuns or how to run away in time in pve.

 

You have no rights to tell people how to play. Regs is the only training ground for noobs. Iam one of those who firstly learned how to play in regs and then joined regs i barely could care about any objectives in regs since rewards for playing objectives are nothing while ranked gives flairs, mounts, sets, mats and much more.

 

IF you want it to be changed ask devs to make unranked arena queues so people had places to zerg and learn how to damage, kite, survive etc. but i doubt they will do it since population is already too low. Pops for unranked will only die

IF you want it to be changed ask devs to make unranked arena queues so people had places to zerg and learn how to damage, kite, survive etc. but i doubt they will do it since population is already too low. Pops for unranked will only die

 

It's been asked for, but the dev's don't seem to understand that 8v8 and 4v4 are not the same type of pvp.

 

Low population is used as a reason that they can't split the que's, but the flip side is that not splitting the regular warzone que's into 8v8 and 4v4 may be part of the reason for the low pvp population in the first place. Players who like 8v8 (played properly) just stop que'ing. I haven't que'd up in over a month, I just do not find numberfarming fun.

 

Granted, I am only a casual pvp'er and rarely did more a handful of warzones in a day, but a healthy pvp population should have both dedicated and casual players.

 

Look at lowbies/mids since they basically went all 4v4 all the time. Did the population for those increase or decrease with the change?

 

What you lose by not splitting the que's and having players who ignore objectives in 8v8's is the casual pvp players who don't like 4v4's. It might not seem like it matters, but I think overtime you will see that it does as the pvp population shrinks to the arena type players only.

I'm speaking from the perspective of somebody who has PVPd in MMOs for the past 19 years, so I've seen a few things. I've been doing PVP in this game since it launched. I've been a part of those zerg groups where we just completely outclass and out-skill the other team. I can only tell you my personal experience, but it's not fun killing people who are defenseless. I find it much more satisfying to beat skilled opponents. At first it's fun to blow people up but I like to have some challenge. If it's too easy it really isn't as fun.

 

I have no qualms about farming people though. I can tell when the teams are horribly balanced and I know it's not fair, but I'm going to do my best and I expect you to do the same. The results take care of themselves. Get good or get wrecked. These kinds of games don't happen often. The biggest problem is always the huge gap of player skill between the teams.

 

You could try to correct the problem by putting in a potent matchmaking system with it's ever increasing criteria changes to help make the finer distinctions to define what constitutes fair teams. This would have to come at the expense of q times of course. So would you prefer to wait potentially way longer for the necessary pool of players or do you just want to wait less than a minute for a pop and get right to fighting?

 

I almost exclusively just solo q for regs these days and I look forward to the games where there's a preform on the other side. There's usually a good chance there is good players on the other side. I am probably in the minority here because I am completely capable of handling myself.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Fellow-Canadian

The results take care of themselves. Get good or get wrecked.

 

this is the biggest difference between 1.x-4.x on the one hand and 5.x on the other. when good premades dominated a WZ, they won going away. they might've spawn camped, but they always won.

 

since I've been back, it's the opposite. more often than not, they lose the match. they wreck everyone on the other team, making life miserable for said other team, but the other team wins as often as not simply because the good premade ignores objectives. that is a horrible way to win and, if you're not happy farming kills and stuck on their team, a horrible way to lose. they'll literally throw the hb to to the other team and then go back farming mid. they don't care.

 

it's regs. it's completely unregulated by BW outside of harassment, so I'll just leave if I see pwnography or whatnot on my team or the other team. that's the good thing about regs: they can go off and do w/e they want and you can leave and try to find another match they aren't in.

 

small consolation, but it is what it is.

Even if you didn't want to do said objectives, is it so hard to at least fight near the node or kill the ball carrier that is slowly walking past you? Then go farm your pretty numbers. You could at least make killing people useful to your team but even that is beyond your scope.

 

I am so glad you can have the attitude that you can do whatever you want but you are playing an MMO in a game that is team based. So taking that attitude, "I hate warzones, so I'm not gonna play them correctly", you are taking a very selfish stance with the typical "it's all about me and what I want". Everyone in that warzone are agreeing to join a team based game and your stance is that your "wants" are more important than them and their time.

 

So would I rather wait for a good game or constantly get in a game with farmers who don't care? I would rather wait because if I see farmers on my team, I just leave game and wait for another. And if the farmers didn't bloat regs, more people would queue again but you are driving true pvpers away from the game.

 

There are times when we get a great matchup against a farming group and not only can win the Warzone, but destroy the farmers. More often than not, when this is the case, the reaction from the farmers can be predicted as follows:

- "Oh, lucky you had help, if it were a 1 on 1 it would be a different story!"

- The farmer has left the warzone (before conclusion).

 

We're all just trying to have fun, look at it from not just your own perspective, but of others who are trying to play to win. Doing good numbers AND winning is a possibility. If you win, realize that others are doing the work FOR you in order to win. Maybe consider them, and try to do your part in the actual "winning" process and not just blindly, selfishly being inconsiderate of others. What about this attitude in ranked? Even there it's all about winning, but you can't just push buttons and be inconsiderate of everyone else.

 

Take a moment to think about this really. Re-read your post and apply that to all aspects of life. How does it stack up? Can you do this at your job? How about services and products you pay for. Can you just do whatever you want and be inconsiderate of the rules in all of these aspects? Give hope to the human race, seriously.

 

Stop calling people who play objectives "bad and not good players". I don't have to prove myself with numbers every warzone I play like you guys do. I want people to know that when I am on their team, I am going for the win. Not sigh when they see me join the team.

Usually in games, we play to achieve the win condition set by the rulemakers/devs of the game. But sometimes the players will find that it's more fun to play with a different win condition in mind, and play to achieve that condition, ignoring the win condition that the game makers have set. That's perfectly fine, and that's what's going on here.

 

Playing objs was fun during 8v8 ranked and a decent test of skill. Now, playing for kills/dps is so much more fun than playing the stated objective. Even if they brought back 8v8 ranked, objective play would be so ridiculous because of all the mobility meta changes/new abilities and new maps, and shown to be a poor test of skill. When tryharded at the highest level, it would be so gimmicky that it would make ranked seem like a complete joke. When you know that objective play breaks if tryharded to that level, it makes it impossible to take objs seriously. Dps/kill farming is the way to go. Stay mad.

Edited July 6, 2019 by KittyKat_Karrot

PvP has been trash in this game since shortly after launch. Ranked is the biggest joke of it all. Without cross server queues it’s literally meaningless. Even regs queues would seriously benefit from xserver. If I want to play esports I play battlefield or WoW. It’s tragic that anyone would consider themselves a real pvper and use ranked in this game as an example. How this game made it past Q&A in 2010-2011 with no xserver is baffling. Edited July 7, 2019 by Telaan

Usually in games, we play to achieve the win condition set by the rulemakers/devs of the game. But sometimes the players will find that it's more fun to play with a different win condition in mind, and play to achieve that condition, ignoring the win condition that the game makers have set. That's perfectly fine, and that's what's going on here.

 

Playing objs was fun during 8v8 ranked and a decent test of skill. Now, playing for kills/dps is so much more fun than playing the stated objective. Even if they brought back 8v8 ranked, objective play would be so ridiculous because of all the mobility meta changes/new abilities and new maps, and shown to be a poor test of skill. When tryharded at the highest level, it would be so gimmicky that it would make ranked seem like a complete joke. When you know that objective play breaks if tryharded to that level, it makes it impossible to take objs seriously. Dps/kill farming is the way to go. Stay mad.

sadly, you raise some fair points in the second paragraph. the maps are hopelessly broken for teams playing at the upper capabilities of their respective classes, and many were even broken before 8v8 was ditched (VStar in particular).

PvP has been trash in this game since shortly after launch. Ranked is the biggest joke of it all. Without cross server queues it’s literally meaningless. Even regs queues would seriously benefit from xserver. If I want to play esports I play battlefield or WoW. It’s tragic that anyone would consider themselves a real pvper and use ranked in this game as an example. How this game made it past Q&A in 2010-2011 with no xserver is baffling.

 

Strangely you mentioned games that aren't that better in PVP. Wow PVP was declining for ages in the resent tourney wow stream had 2x less viewers that wow streamer that streams lvl 40 vanilla classic adventures.

 

Would it be amazing to have cross server ques, sure. However having solo ques already is a big plus. Wow BG actually aren't better than Swotr WZ. both have similar problems.

 

WOW arena is actually at this point worse than swotr SOLO. Most in LFG don't use voice anymore, wait time on finding players is enormous especially if you alliance and most quit party on the first loss.....

 

Actually watching 1800 swotr stream you can see skillful players, same applies to rank 1 wow players anything below in both game is just keys smashing.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Cherepk

Ok, so, I will be as polite as I can with this.

I'm paying for the game same as any other - you can't tell me what I can and what I cannot do in this game as long as I don't violate any of the game's terms.

Since the game permits, and I enjoy farming numbers, hunting for others or whatever the game allows, you have no right of telling me otherwise.

Thanks!

IIRC there are 2 US servers and 2 Euro servers, so cross server queue is kind of pointless now.

 

As for number farmers, i think the most annoying part is that they prevent the match from turning over quickly so everyone can start a new one (with hopefully better matchmaking).

Edited July 8, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

IIRC there are 2 US servers and 2 Euro servers, so cross server queue is kind of pointless now.

 

As for number farmers, i think the most annoying part is that they prevent the match from turning over quickly so everyone can start a new one (with hopefully better matchmaking).

 

They could just make one jumbo server for each region and that would fix the cross server argument

 

I actually have this tiny voice saying, “prepare for ninja server merge in 6.0”... which makes no sense. But hey, they didn’t tell us they were moving the servers to the east coast till it was done.

Edited July 8, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

Ok, so, I will be as polite as I can with this.

I'm paying for the game same as any other - you can't tell me what I can and what I cannot do in this game as long as I don't violate any of the game's terms.

Since the game permits, and I enjoy farming numbers, hunting for others or whatever the game allows, you have no right of telling me otherwise.

Thanks!

 

So if you paid to join in on some public basketball or football games, you would continue to choose to play by your own terms instead of the rules? "I'm not dribbling, because I paid to get into this game!" Or maybe a better example is you joined a Gym. It has rules on how to use the weights. Doesn't matter, because since you paid, you should be able to do with it everything you want. So lets roll the weight plates down the hall!

 

Oh right, it's because this is an online game and you're anonymous that your base human nature of selfishness and greed and #@$( everyone else because I'm too important comes out. If you do not have a means of being punished, then by all means lets push it and take advantage and ruin the system for everyone else!

 

You are exactly what's wrong with PvP. You are exactly what's wrong with society.

So if you paid to join in on some public basketball or football games, you would continue to choose to play by your own terms instead of the rules? "I'm not dribbling, because I paid to get into this game!" Or maybe a better example is you joined a Gym. It has rules on how to use the weights. Doesn't matter, because since you paid, you should be able to do with it everything you want. So lets roll the weight plates down the hall!

 

Oh right, it's because this is an online game and you're anonymous that your base human nature of selfishness and greed and #@$( everyone else because I'm too important comes out. If you do not have a means of being punished, then by all means lets push it and take advantage and ruin the system for everyone else!

 

You are exactly what's wrong with PvP. You are exactly what's wrong with society.

 

Actually, that's a pretty bad analogy since the OP was talking about playing objectives versus number farming. Got to score some baskets to win at basketball.

 

That said, I don't see too many groups doing like OP says.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

Actually, that's a pretty bad analogy since the OP was talking about playing objectives versus number farming. Got to score some baskets to win at basketball.

 

That said, I don't see too many groups doing like OP says.

 

I mean you have to play objectives to win objective based pvp too... the number farmers don't mind losing as long as they have huge numbers.

Actually, that's a pretty bad analogy since the OP was talking about playing objectives versus number farming. Got to score some baskets to win at basketball.

 

That said, I don't see too many groups doing like OP says.

 

Is it though? Maybe it is. However, in basketball, the objective (in order to win) is to get the ball in the hoop. If he chooses to dribble the ball and run around the defense and showcase his ball handling and runs out the shot clock because he doesn't care to score, then... Maybe putting it like that is the better analogy.

Hey now, show some respect for them. The farmers harvest the wheat so all you Early Morning Pvpers can Get This Bread.

Hey now, show some respect for them. The farmers harvest the wheat so all you Early Morning Pvpers can Get This Bread.

 

tru

 

5char

You come to regs and farm numbers ignoring objectives like you will get a serious disease if you get any obj points.

 

You pass the huttball to each other to make sure it goes the full 15 minutes.

You clear mid, but won't bother to cap it because that will ruin your numbers.

You ruin the game for those of us who enjoy the SWTOR pvp experience.

 

Traveling around in your little packs destroying lone players or farming spawn points.

 

Pvp these days is too hard for most people to play properly

These are the people who are in pvp these days

 

1. Can’t dps, so only play objectives and run from the fight if there is more than one or they might die.

2. Can’t play objectives, so only concentrate on dps

3. Can’t dps (kill anything) or play objectives, so run in big packs playing follow the leader all over the map

 

 

I've noticed "The Pack" is more of an issue on Satele Shan, coordinated by discord, consisting mostly of ranged players.

 

I play to win. Winning completes daily and weekly faster, earning the rewards quicker so as to gear my alts quicker. The rewards being Unassembled Components and crafting material Refined Isotopes - of which I resell.

I've noticed "The Pack" is more of an issue on Satele Shan, coordinated by discord, consisting mostly of ranged players.

 

I play to win. Winning completes daily and weekly faster, earning the rewards quicker so as to gear my alts quicker. The rewards being Unassembled Components and crafting material Refined Isotopes - of which I resell.

 

The pack is on Star Forge as much as Satele. Maybe even more because they seem to be less skilled

 

The thing is many don’t seem to understand they can get dailies and weeklies done faster and with more rewards.

Part of the problem is there isn’t a large enough difference in rewards between a loss and a win. The only fix to that is to make the rewards significant for winning and less so for losing.

I think a mechanism like that and the proposed deserter timer would encourage people to play to win. At least I hope it would.

Edited July 17, 2019 by TrixxieTriss