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All that new mess on PTS is too much, we just want 2 set bonuses <Rant>


Restoman

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When it comes to those new 21 set bouses, 21 tacticals and 21 new stats on amplifiers and all that mess we have atm on PTS if the purpose is to make even less people play this game and make it less enjoyable for whoever is left then indeed it is going in the intended direction.

However if it isn't the team needs to rethink what made swtor fun in the first place. Maybe the alt-friendliness and ease of how you can gear secondary characters into decent gear and be ready to do anything as long you can play it somewhat?

How the operations are giving meaningful rewards in form of ops-exclusive set bonus? How gear isn't the barrier of kiling a boss but the boss itself is cause gear doesn't matter that much?

 

Everyone I know who logged onto PTS is shaking his head looking at the mess we're getting, these changes are ruining the last good parts of the game. It really isn't voiced on the forums on the level that people actually voice it among themselves.

 

It's too much, it cannot be balanced like that, it's a pain to gear characters, forget alts.

At this point I would be happy to get a second Ossus instead which is crazy.

 

Raiders I know would just want a few simple things, I will voice them and maybe some ppl will bumb it up.

*2 set bonuses. 1 for PvP from pvp sources, 1 for PvE from operation sources. Something useful and meanimgful. It's so simple, but it's so amazing.

You can add few other casual sets, have 1 set for crafting, 1 for gathering, something like mount speed or some kind of QoL from non-ops/ranked pvp sources.

*As for tacticals - don't add too many, you won't balance it, nothing output related, just add a few utilities and mostly Quality of Life improvements for stuff outside of endgame.

*Amplifiers - oh well that's just such a mess. These stats cannot be balanced across specs and it's just a huge pain the the a. It might be too much adding those at start of 6.0 along with many other new things, needs a solid rework and less stuff added in a way that doesn't change the game too much. Most people would like it completely removed, but in case it cannot be avoided one amplifier per a gear piece and having a choice of what kind of an amplifier it is (combat/qol/crafting, straightforward few stats that are easy to balance) sound much better.

If you add 21 new tacticals, but one of them is simply better for output then all the other 20 are just annoying placeholders which are gonna be trashed eventually. Everyone would be so much happier with just one.

Rant over.

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Raiders I know would just want a few simple things, I will voice them and maybe some ppl will bumb it up.

*2 set bonuses. 1 for PvP from pvp sources, 1 for PvE from operation sources. Something useful and meanimgful. It's so simple, but it's so amazing.

You can add few other casual sets, have 1 set for crafting, 1 for gathering, something like mount speed or some kind of QoL from non-ops/ranked pvp sources.

*As for tacticals - don't add too many, you won't balance it, nothing output related, just add a few utilities and mostly Quality of Life improvements for stuff outside of endgame.

 

The one point I'll disagree on is tacticals, I think having an AoE, Sustain and Burst tactical is an okay way to implement tacticals. Each has a reason for use (PvP, AoE, PvE).

Inasmuch as the set bonuses go though? Restoman is right on the money.

Give us a set bonus for PvE which is focused on increasing our damage.

Give us a set bonus for PvP which is focused on increasing burst and Defensives.

Add in utility bonuses for Mounts, Gathering, Run Speed... etc. Open World stuff.

And just get rid of amplifiers. They aren't worth hanging on to. Not in their current state.

Edited by Iymurra
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Sorry, I disagree. I feel we need more options in the game. Enough of this cookie cutter build everyone currently has.

 

I do hope when this goes live, when you select your spec, it's reflected in the vendors. Right now every single piece of gear, mod, armoring, enhancement, etc. is popping up so it a tad confusing which gear to select from. If I'm a Marksman Sniper, I shouldn't see gear or other stuff designed for Engineering or Lethality.

 

Regardless, it's ok you feel this way. Others may agree but others may not. Were all in this together.

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Sorry, I disagree. I feel we need more options in the game. Enough of this cookie cutter build everyone currently has.

 

I do hope when this goes live, when you select your spec, it's reflected in the vendors. Right now every single piece of gear, mod, armoring, enhancement, etc. is popping up so it a tad confusing which gear to select from. If I'm a Marksman Sniper, I shouldn't see gear or other stuff designed for Engineering or Lethality.

 

Regardless, it's ok you feel this way. Others may agree but others may not. Were all in this together.

 

For PVP it's pointless because every class will have a most " OP " build and that's what everyone will use... while other set bonuses or tactical items will be just plain useless. ;)

 

I really doubt all of them are.. good.. so... I'm inclined to see things the OP's way.

Edited by DavidAtkinson
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For PVP it's pointless because every class will have a most " OP " build and that's what everyone will use... while other set bonuses or tactical items will be just plain useless. ;)

 

I really doubt all of them are.. good.. so... I'm inclined to see things the OP's way.

For PvE (Let's keep it on ops/raids) same story, there is 1 set up which is miles ahead of others, - the rest is just traps for new players, - aka they going to pick what might sound 'usefull' - let's use 'Below 50% your crit is increased' thinking they might be below 50% a lot, - they go in to a raid, healer does their job, and their set bonus is completly nulified.

 

There is just a lot of confusion - The best they can do imo, is reduce the set bonsues to 1 PvE - 1 PvP (reach out, or ask for opinions, of people who play the spec in NiM / Ranked, Tacticals can stay imo, they are fine. (the most useless ones can be removed or changed in to a 'minor tactical slot'

 

Amplifiers are a terrible system, and should just be removed rn, - or changed to only include non combat things - adding combat bonusses to that much RnG is beyond stupid.

Edited by Folcwar
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The one point I'll disagree on is tacticals, I think having an AoE, Sustain and Burst tactical is an okay way to implement tacticals. Each has a reason for use (PvP, AoE, PvE)..

 

Yes, it's also a good idea. A single sustained tactical useful for PVE, AOE one for AOE situations and burst for PVP, but not too many of them, this is not blizzard, it cannot be balanced well.

The thread was more to start a discussion because despite the fact so many people do not like what they see on PTS, on the forums here we can only see opinions of storymode heroes that think they know their class.

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For PvE (Let's keep it on ops/raids) same story, there is 1 set up which is miles ahead of others, - the rest is just traps for new players, - aka they going to pick what might sound 'usefull' - let's use 'Below 50% your crit is increased' thinking they might be below 50% a lot, - they go in to a raid, healer does their job, and their set bonus is completly nulified.

 

There is just a lot of confusion - The best they can do imo, is reduce the set bonsues to 1 PvE - 1 PvP (reach out, or ask for opinions, of people who play the spec in NiM / Ranked, Tacticals can stay imo, they are fine. (the most useless ones can be removed or changed in to a 'minor tactical slot'

 

Amplifiers are a terrible system, and should just be removed rn, - or changed to only include non combat things - adding combat bonusses to that much RnG is beyond stupid.

 

The fix for that would have been to make them all of them viable and strong so no one would actually lose anything by playing differently and it would have been indeed a play your way.... But as we can see some classes are plain garbage already like Sin DPS so they are just getting some random stuff that doesn't bring anything to their table... ;)

 

I agree with the trap for new players... Yeah story players and casuals will think that what they get is cool.. but it really isn't. As usual Bioware makes things for the casual playerbase as they are the most numerous. Engame PvP-ers, Nim Raiders, HM runners are just 5-10% of the current player base. ;)

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The fix for that would have been to make them all of them viable and strong so no one would actually lose anything by playing differently and it would have been indeed a play your way.... But as we can see some classes are plain garbage already like Sin DPS so they are just getting some random stuff that doesn't bring anything to their table... ;)

 

I agree with the trap for new players... Yeah story players and casuals will think that what they get is cool.. but it really isn't. As usual Bioware makes things for the casual playerbase as they are the most numerous. Engame PvP-ers, Nim Raiders, HM runners are just 5-10% of the current player base. ;)

Yeah but the problem here is, we're now what? a month, month and a half to release - there are not enough people doing real number testing, and feedback - people are mostly giving feedback on what it sounds like.

 

I don't expect things to be properly balanced before release - (or at all, to be very honest), so the less things to balance, the better. - there is simply no way, that this many set bonuses can be balanced for PvE nor PvP

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I disagree. The Devs are going in right direction, this just needs to be refined. Horizontal gear progression is more fun than vertical.

 

And I think they should go even further. When it comes to PvE, secret or simply any NiM bosses there should be tacticals that interact with mechanics in interesting ways. We already have the dreadguard mask that counters boss mechanic, there should be more items like that. Tacticals are a way to implement that. Ways to change a mechanic so each fight can be tuned to specific group or simply make fight different instead of same every time. These tacticals should be a trade-off, negate or mitigate a mechanic but with some side effects. That way you're not nerfing the fight you're just tuning it for your group.

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I disagree. The Devs are going in right direction, this just needs to be refined. Horizontal gear progression is more fun than vertical.

 

And I think they should go even further. When it comes to PvE, secret or simply any NiM bosses there should be tacticals that interact with mechanics in interesting ways. We already have the dreadguard mask that counters boss mechanic, there should be more items like that. Tacticals are a way to implement that. Ways to change a mechanic so each fight can be tuned to specific group or simply make fight different instead of same every time. These tacticals should be a trade-off, negate or mitigate a mechanic but with some side effects. That way you're not nerfing the fight you're just tuning it for your group.

 

Agreed.

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From what I saw, there is really no testing going on. People are just running around on Odesson not really going out to do some testing. Yes a few are but most are just standing around playing with their AOE on people logging into Odesson.

 

I logged into Odesson, got the armor I thought would work for my character and then went and did the black hole, came back to make some adjustments and the same people were there throwing out AOE.

Edited by casirabit
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From what I saw, there is really no testing going on. People are just running around on Odesson not really going out to do some testing. Yes a few are but most are just standing around playing with their AOE on people logging into Odesson.

 

I logged into Odesson, got the armor I thought would work for my character and then went and did the black hole, came back to make some adjustments and the same people were there throwing out AOE.

 

What do you expect? Real testing will take you.. roughly 30 mins if you try everything out (it took me that long at least)

What more do you want? people to quit and go on retail? Sure, then test servers would probably be empty. Some people will want to do other stuff, cant really blame them for that, especially if theres nothing to do on official servers xD

 

Anyway, I think the set bonus selection is great!

In terms of frequency at least, the effects on the otherhand... well, 90% of them feel like filler to me.

I'd rather if they did something more fun... like sets without a 6piece, should have 6/6 effect - Gives you 1 utility point or something.

Just so people who don't have 6 set bonus or dont like the bonuses can at least get something. If it appeals to them at the very least..

 

Besides that, amplification is unfinished, and none of them work (at least the ones i tried. I didn't try the crafting ones, and some of them i just couldn't be bothered to confirm)

The tacticals have gross balancing issues.

Powertech only has 1 maybe 2 good tacticals,

juggernauts are going to tear this patch apart!

That's all im going to say xd

Edited by Bonzenaattori
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You really think theirs gonna be different builds lol. Have you not played dcuo its the exact same thing one power about 100 different loadouts but one meta for pvp and pve. This gearing system is more nonsense and moving away from gearing alts is not good. You make the game stale if you have to play one character all the freaking time. people hated 4.0 but atleast for vets it was easy to gear all your characters and now lolololol.:w_rolls_eyes:Gearing in FFXIV is the gold standard, basic but it works and if it aint broken dont fix it. RUN THE CONTENT YOU GET THE GEAR. Going away from the com system was the one of the dumbest things that the devs could of done now we have this wierd meth head tweeker gearing that people love so much. Edited by Skummy
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From what I saw, there is really no testing going on. People are just running around on Odesson not really going out to do some testing. Yes a few are but most are just standing around playing with their AOE on people logging into Odesson.

 

I logged into Odesson, got the armor I thought would work for my character and then went and did the black hole, came back to make some adjustments and the same people were there throwing out AOE.

 

And the people that you DID NOT see on odessen are actually testing out things. Why do I want to be on Odessen to test out abilities?

Parsing for dps I do on the rishi stronghold. When I need enemies that fight back I jump to a daily area or flashpoint.

 

 

Anyways. Regarding what OP said. I disagree with the notion that this is too much. Horizontal gearing can be quite interesting if done well. It's now our job to tell the devs what we have seen and think of the system. It's ofc your prerogative to ask to remove all these things but it's very unlikely this will happen.

 

Also please note that if something is not good enough, not working or just too strong. This is the PTS. Its entire goal is find out these things and help out the devs with our ideas. Lets make the best of it!

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Amplifiers are total bs. What they should have done is focus on things that are actually usefull, for instance, slightly more Power/Critical, something like higher Shield/Absorb chance or just flat Shield/Absorb, instead, we're getting some bs like less damage from dots or more damage dealt by FIRST attack out of combat, like, let's be honest here, who's even gonna use that? Probably only people that just got into the game and will think this is good, but it's actually garbage. Don't get me wrong, Amplifier system is a really neat idea but it needs so much more tweaking and actual stats that are gonna matter in both PvE and PvP. I dunno who thought about all of these pointless bonuses/stats but they need to rethink it.

 

About Tacticals, like some other people said it already above, there should be like 5? Tacticals per class. Not per spec, but per class. Why, would you ask me? Because currently if I'm not mistaken each class has like 15? or even more Tacticals and only like 3 or 4 is actually usefull for something. In my opinion Bioware is trying so hard to roll out so many things at once, and that's a mistake. We can discuss about all of it on forums but in the end Bioware will do what they always do, just roll everything out and then tweak it on retail after a month or two when game got broken by stupid Amplifiers, Tacticals in mostly PvP.

 

For all I care Bioware can even delay the expansion just to fix everything, that could have been avoided if PTS launched like 2-3 months ago, and not like what, 2 or even less months before official Onslaught launch? I would rather have good launch rather than something close to Shadow of Revan launch.

 

Not to mention the gearing system we got since 5.0, cxp boxes, unassembled components, crafting. They should have just stucked to the comm system, that's when SWTOR felt like an actual MMO with sort of gearing progression.

Don't get me wrong, the gearing changes they have done now with Legacy left side is really great! I was so happy to hear it, but then they had to make actual gear sets Legacy bound as well for whatever reason, not to mention Set bonuses being stuck to the SHELLS instead of armorings, now all the legacy weapons, gears we've grinded since ages can just get thrown away. Imo they should have just did Legacy left side and that's it.

Edited by chipequssmlgpro
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You really think theirs gonna be different builds lol. Have you not played dcuo its the exact same thing one power about 100 different loadouts but one meta for pvp and pve. This gearing system is more nonsense and moving away from gearing alts is not good. You make the game stale if you have to play one character all the freaking time. people hated 4.0 but atleast for vets it was easy to gear all your characters and now lolololol.:w_rolls_eyes:Gearing in FFXIV is the gold standard, basic but it works and if it aint broken dont fix it. RUN THE CONTENT YOU GET THE GEAR. Going away from the com system was the one of the dumbest things that the devs could of done now we have this wierd meth head tweeker gearing that people love so much.

 

This idiotic gearing was added to keep you busy in the long run... Normally this should be done with content.. lots of it, but since they are unable to deliver that much, they are giving us grinds.

 

And If you thought Ossus is bad.. ? Wait till you see 6.0. You'd kill for another Ossus. ;)

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I agree with the trap for new players... Yeah story players and casuals will think that what they get is cool.. but it really isn't. As usual Bioware makes things for the casual playerbase as they are the most numerous. Engame PvP-ers, Nim Raiders, HM runners are just 5-10% of the current player base. ;)

 

As a story playing casual, I have to say, this wasn't designed for me. For me, simpler is better. I logged on, looked at the different vendors and felt overwhelmed, so instead of testing the gear I went and checked out aspects of the game that don't require gear. When this goes live I'll wait for the theorycrafters to tell me what I should get.

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Amplifiers are total bs. [...] Don't get me wrong, Amplifier system is a really neat idea but it needs so much more tweaking and actual stats that are gonna matter in both PvE and PvP. I dunno who thought about all of these pointless bonuses/stats but they need to rethink it.

 

[...]For all I care Bioware can even delay the expansion just to fix everything, that could have been avoided if PTS launched like 2-3 months ago, and not like what, 2 or even less months before official Onslaught launch? I would rather have good launch rather than something close to Shadow of Revan launch.

 

I'm not sure I even have anything left to say after this. Amplifiers are completely RNG and could be anything from "greatly affects gameplay" (people who re-roll to get combat-related amplifiers at high percentage) to "does something?" (What the heck does "Unlucky" even really DO?)

 

Why in the world is this even on the PTS without any real attempt to make it something players would want? Who thought this was something we *would* want, in anywhere near its present state?

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Sorry, I disagree. I feel we need more options in the game. Enough of this cookie cutter build everyone currently has.

 

I do hope when this goes live, when you select your spec, it's reflected in the vendors. Right now every single piece of gear, mod, armoring, enhancement, etc. is popping up so it a tad confusing which gear to select from. If I'm a Marksman Sniper, I shouldn't see gear or other stuff designed for Engineering or Lethality.

 

Regardless, it's ok you feel this way. Others may agree but others may not. Were all in this together.

 

I disagree. The Devs are going in right direction, this just needs to be refined. Horizontal gear progression is more fun than vertical.

 

And I think they should go even further. When it comes to PvE, secret or simply any NiM bosses there should be tacticals that interact with mechanics in interesting ways. We already have the dreadguard mask that counters boss mechanic, there should be more items like that. Tacticals are a way to implement that. Ways to change a mechanic so each fight can be tuned to specific group or simply make fight different instead of same every time. These tacticals should be a trade-off, negate or mitigate a mechanic but with some side effects. That way you're not nerfing the fight you're just tuning it for your group.

 

I agree completely more options to customize gearing is always good IMO.

Edited by commanderwar
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Gearing diversity is something which is great when it promotes choice. Here's the problem, amplifiers do not promote choice outside of certain specific pieces (mods). Quoting jambalayabungee from a different thread, below are the currently known amplifiers. As you'll note as you read through the benefits for mods are pretty good, no game changing effects but they will slightly impact the way you play. The problem is the damage increasing and DR and healing effects. There are functionally 2 categories of attacks which are better than EVERYTHING else. Anything that affects the Force or Tech class of damage/healing: "Tech Wizardry, Force Sensitivity, Medtech, Force Harmonization, Tech Aegis and Force Protection." They're just flat out better than everything else offered in this category. If you get rid of them then Armor Pen might become the next best, then Periodic Intensity, then AoE damage... etc.

 

All that those bonuses are is a direct increase in damage output. Nothing else. They don't interact with the manner in which you do damage. You can't increase the number of dot ticks you'll hit someone with over the course of a dot. AoE damage is not going to become rotational unless theres a deeper underlying problem with that classes balance. (Sorc -> Recklessness) Increasing your threat generation isn't a "fun and interesting" mechanic. Threat is a non-issue for tanks, adding in increased threat modifiers to DPS that have to be re-rolled is punishing players for getting better gear by increasing their chance of dying. Adjusting your companions threat modifiers is fine, adjusting your own is not okay. Companions don't affect other players, you do when you play in groups.

 

Imagine whats going to happen if a player with 5 4% lifesteal enhancements goes into a warzone and proceeds to tab-dot and AoE 8 other players. Now couple that with a healer also healing them, these amplifiers are a vehicle to cause horrendous imbalance amongst all the group content types SWTOR currently has to offer.

 

As was mentioned previously, allowing for a 15%ish flat damage increase for all players locked behind an RNG wall is a nightmare for balancing content. Do you now balance everything assuming that all players have the maximum DPS increase? What about those players with damage profiles which are not fully Force or Tech and who gain (still significant) more marginal benefits from the % damage increase gear? Do you balance for 10%? 5%? at what point does the content become trivialized before you even acquire the new tier of gear? When do you replace gear that rolls with a 1.5% damage increase modifier?

 

If all amplifiers were more like the mods category gearing wouldn't have all these questions attached. As it stand this is the WORST. GEAR. RELATED. IDEA. to ever grace SWTOR. Worse even than command crates.

 

Quoting jambalayabungee from a different thread with the lists of currently known amplifiers & effects.

ARMORINGS / HILTS / BARRELS

 

defensives:

  • Reinforced Armor : reduces dmg taken from weapon attacks
  • Aural Resistance : take less aoe dmg
  • Periodic Defense : armor against dots
  • Tech Aegis : defense against tech attacks
  • Force protection :well, protection against force XD
  • Fortuitous redoubt: absorb shield when you parry dodge or reflect
  • En garde :reduce dmg taken on first attack out of combat
  • Shield reflection:

 

healing:

  • Force harmonization : more force healing
  • medtech: more tech healing
  • residual Revovery : direct heals leaves an HOT on the target
  • Overward: overhealing gives an absorb shield on the person healed
  • Aural rejuvenation : more AOE heal
  • Readied Healing: increase healing of your first direct heal out of combat
  • Periodic healing : increase periodic healing

 

offensive:

  • armor pen : kinetic or energy dmg ignore a portion enemy's armor
  • Periodic Intensity : increase dmg by periodic effects
  • Aural Command : do more AOE dmg
  • force sentitivity : more force dmg
  • tech wizardry : more tech damage
  • First strike : more dmg dealt by your first attack out of combat
  • weapon expertise : more wp dmg

 

MODS:

 

  • Durable Coating reduce durability lost on gear
  • Presence
  • Stim Longevity : stim last longer
  • Diplomacy /archeo /bio / gathering /treasure hunter/ UW trading ... expert : + success rate
  • Bargain haggling : repair cost less
  • Featherweight: reduce damge taken from falling
  • Frequent flyer : reduce cost traveling
  • influencal: comp gain more influence
  • power napping : more rest xp rate
  • Mount speed : increase mount speed

 

ENHANCEMENTS

 

  • Life Stealing :heal the caster for a % of damage done
  • Kwikpacs (lol) : reduce the cooldown timer for health packs
  • Soothing Haste : your heal -gives movement speed boost
  • Hardiness : regenerate a small amount of Heal per second while stunned/ incapacited
  • Threat generation
  • Snaring crits : your crits slows
  • Heal Magnet : more healing received
  • Juiced Meds: increase the effects of health pack
  • Calming Companions: reduce threat of companions
  • towering companions : more threat of companions
  • Combat invigoration: health regen in combat
  • Critical mov : your crit give you mvt speed
  • Overkill: applied a % of dmg dealt beyond what is needing to kill an enemy to an nearby enemy!
  • stealth detection : improves SD
  • rolling heals : heal your caster when your periodic effect crit (dot?)
  • jailbreaking : lower the cooldown of your stun breaker
  • Strong legged : reduce slow on you
  • defensive healing : Hot on you when you use a defensive
  • selfish healing : you heal yourself for more

 

SHELLS (All pieces but weapons and tacticals):

 

  • Adventuring bounty - more creds and xp from quests
  • starship bounty (gsf) increases xp and reknown
  • flashpoint bounty
  • operation bounty
  • potent slicing/..crewksills critical rates, mission + critical rate ...
    EDIT: Legacy Experience (increases legacy experience from all sources)
    EDIT: Unlucky: "Sometimes youre just unlucky.Rumor has, being unlucky enough reveals a special reward" ???
    EDIT : Competitive Bounty : increase the reward gained from PVP
    EDIT: Resourceful :improve your gathering from resources nodes

Edited by Iymurra
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