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Dual Spec: Let's Talk about it.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Dual Spec: Let's Talk about it.

curzen's Avatar


curzen
04.18.2012 , 12:07 PM | #491
I'm surprised it's not in the game yet.

Krystil's Avatar


Krystil
04.20.2012 , 03:55 AM | #492
I agree with the idea of bing to have a quick swap dual spec. Either to allow pve class to swap from healer to dps for raid/ops balance - which is what I would like.... or for those who want a quick swap between pve and pvp specs.

Urkanan's Avatar


Urkanan
04.20.2012 , 05:11 AM | #493
Quote: Originally Posted by Nitewolfe View Post
I say NO to dual spec!
I do not want to have to face guild pressure to have a heal/tank spec!
I say you need to find a better guild.
If we insist in calling ourselves casual players, we need to accept that there is a downside to it: Hardcore players will always look cooler, be stronger, play better and in general win more often than we do

kenbenobi's Avatar


kenbenobi
04.20.2012 , 05:58 AM | #494
Sages do not need dual spec because only tree viable is balance. Heal got nerf, no more hybrids and telekinetics is slow shooting turret
"Ganta Solo chone Wuki." (Bring me Solo and the Wookiee!)

MWidowmaker's Avatar


MWidowmaker
04.20.2012 , 10:41 AM | #495
the system that they will roll out only allows for changing specs within your AC, so I am fine with that.
still allows people to play another char of the same base class, but to play a different AC, like having an Operative and a Sniper

I am more concerned with character slots right now since all of my slots are full on one server and halfway full on another.....
http://www.swtor.com/r/6m2C2S Free stuff, bandwagon referral link, click if you want

TheRealBowser's Avatar


TheRealBowser
04.22.2012 , 01:46 PM | #496
Okay the bullcrap about "omg, it would make it like WoW" needs to stop. NOW. Stop bringing up World of Warcraft, and quit pretending that this game hasn't taken a MASSIVE AMOUNT OF IDEAS from the game that were intelligent and successful. This game already IS like WoW, it has been since day one.

WoW has had several ideas that were great, and several ideas that were bad. Intelligent people are capable of telling the difference, and dual specs was one of the best ideas World of Warcraft ever had.

This game was created with a massive amount of heroics, flashpoints, and operations (which require diverse specs), and let's be frank here: the majority of players skip them because finding a tank and healer is such a pain in the ***. You want to know why this is? Because everyone is specced for easy leveling/grinding, and I myself am guilty of this. Why would I spec for healing when I grind dailies every day? Why would I make it take 2 or 3 times as long every day just so I can heal for the occasional flashpoint which is a pain to start without a tank anyways?

Dual specs is absolutely required for this game to be successful. It's time to stop beating around the bush and crying about how this might break your immersion or some kind of garbage that is 100% untrue. Instead of making up false stories about this incredibly useful feature, let's make some real comments about how this feature would massively improve this game:
  • Instead of spending 1-2 hours in your fleet desperately trying to find that tank or healer you need for your flashpoint while a DPS sorcerer and a DPS juggernaut are in your group, they could simple dual spec and you would be going in minutes instead of hours. Not only that, but if people can fill more than 1 role, many players will have 2 roles available, making it infinitely easier to find players to fill out your group.
  • Likewise, for heroics, you will be able to actually find teams to complete them instead of going into a brick wall 4 man heroic without a tank and healer.
  • Players won't be forced to either choose between fast leveling/mission grinding DPS specs, or being a healer/tank for heroic/flashpoint/operation viability.
  • Players won't be required to choose between PVE specs or PVP specs, they can be optimal in both PVE and PVP instead.
  • Some operation encounters require 2 tanks, others require 1. You either have tanks trying to DPS for some encounters, or DPS trying to tank for some encounters. Or more realistically, players spending hundreds of thousands of credits respeccing and traveling between the fleet and operation area so that they can remain optimal throughout progression.
  • Players avoiding lots of the above points can stop spending 100,000+ per respec and reorganizing their entire user interface each time they respec.
  • SO MUCH MORE...

Now, let's list the points against dual specs:
  • OMG it will be like WoW! );
  • It will make players roll on all the gear, oh noes!
  • My guild's gonna force me to tank/heal!
  • It will make the game simplified.

This is pretty much the entire list I've seen, and I want to add that I have never run across another level 50 that has been against dual specs, especially when I am forming groups for flashpoints and we are spending hours trying to find that elusive tank or healer.

For comments on this being like WoW, please refer to the top of this reply.

For players rolling on your gear, this is garbage. Courteous players would never roll on alternative spec gear, and selfish players are already hitting need for companions, this changes nothing. Not only that, but the only spec in the entire game that requires different gear are tanks and DPS, and in some cases, heal and DPS.

Many tanks already roll on DPS gear that is an upgrade, so this basically boils down to tanks being upset that DPS might roll on their gear. This is something you discuss before the group is run, and then there is no problem. They already might roll need on your gear if you say nothing.

And to be fair, I know that there is an issue with gearing up both specs. But this game is very lenient, and the difference is very small. If you try to heal as a smuggler without alacrity, you'll do okay. If you try to tank with DPS gear, you'll do worse but you won't do terribly. For set bonus gear the difference is much bigger, and in operations I know the difference matters. But if you are doing cutting edge content, you likely already have the gear.

If you have a guild that would force you to tank/heal, you either have a selfish guild that is making big demands you shouldn't put up with, and thus should leave your guild already, or you, in fact, are being selfish for not helping them progress in operations because you don't want to offspec. Realistically, many guilds already have players spending hundreds of thousands of credits to respec when needed, all this would do is make that more simple for them.

Now, saying this might simplify or homogenize the game is actually a fear I understand. WoW was ruined because of this, but it's not homogenization that killed it, it's dumbing things down. If you actually think about it, there is a massive difference between conveniences that drastically improve the game (speeders/mounts, LFG interfaces, etc) and changes made solely to dumbing down the game (cross-realm, simplifying talents so a drunk monkey can pick an optimal spec, etc).

Dual specs are absolutely not a case of the latter. Dual specs are a necessary change that would improve the game and make it better for everyone, from marauders trying to find a flashpoint group to sages wanting to heal in flashpoints and heroics without nerfing their ability to do missions solo.

This game was designed with solo content playing a massive role in the game, yet also with heroics and flashpoints being a huge part of the game also. It was also designed with PVP and operations in mind. The simple fact here is that you can't do everything with one spec. This is obvious as daylight. Now, you can keep going through the frustrating throes of constant respecing or suffering through sub-optimal specializations, or we can make one of the best changes this game has ever seen. For me, this is a given. It is a shame if others can't see this as well.

Edit: I am against changing your advanced class, the dual specs I refer to are solely within your advanced class. I hope this was obvious.

Edit2: This post was made after reading the first page, so if it seems a little hostile please keep that in mind. Every time I hear "it would make it like WoW" I just want to punch my monitor. This is a terrible argument and it pisses me off that people actually use this for debating against this, when this game has already taken so much from WoW.

Supwest's Avatar


Supwest
04.26.2012 , 06:26 PM | #497
Edit: Didn't mean to make this a response to the previous post. That guy (or girl) has it right.

It seems like the point of the game is to get to lvl 50. There is a lot of other stuff to do, story line wise, but I'm guessing most everyone who plays is trying to reach the level cap. And the way you get there is by killing stuff. Every quest, EVERY quest involves killing stuff. So to get to 50 in the most efficient manner possible you should build your character to be able to kill stuff as efficiently as possible. This means rolling a DPS spec.

But the game doesn't stop at level 50, and the stuff you can do once you reach 50 call for classes other than DPS, namely tanks and healers. It seems unfair to make it more difficult for certain classes to achieve the goal of reaching level 50. Especially when those classes, and again I'm talking about tanks and healers, are just as important to flashpoint and OP success as are DPS classes. And leveling with a tank or healer is more difficult than doing so with a DPS. Companions help some, but they aren't as good at DPS as a PC is.

You say you don't want dual spec. I say fine. But then once you chose your AC you should also have to pick a role. If you want to heal as a Sith sorcerer, then all your quests from then on should involve healing stuff instead of killing stuff. If you want to tank as a Jedi guardian, then all your quests should involve tanking something instead of killing something. I don't want dual spec because I want more from the game than you. I want dual spec so the game isn't more work for me than it is for a DPS class. If you make it as easy to level a tank or healer as it is for a DPS toon, then you wouldn't need to have this discussion.

I love healing and I love tanking, but I play DPS more often because it makes the game easier for most of the time. And this isn't different once you get to 50. There are always going to be new quests to do, and they inevitably involve killing things. So respeccing once I get to 50 won't solve the problem.

FadedSpark's Avatar


FadedSpark
04.27.2012 , 02:37 AM | #498
Quote: Originally Posted by kenbenobi View Post
Sages do not need dual spec because only tree viable is balance. Heal got nerf, no more hybrids and telekinetics is slow shooting turret
HEALS GOT NERFED?! Are you kidding me?!

We ran EC normal the other night with a Fresh/Columi/1 piece rakata sage as our secondary healer (He's good though, just not his main. ) and a sage as our other main healer, and we wrecked the bosses. So much so that we decided to invent a new strat for toth and zorn, DPS SWAPPING! we alternated between the two, dropped toth first, and then slaughtered enraged zorn with uber heals backing us up.

Heals aren't nerfed, L2P the class better and mana manage.

wiazabi's Avatar


wiazabi
04.27.2012 , 03:19 AM | #499
Cons

If they let people switch spec during warzones they can adjust to stuff like switch to tank / heal spec in voidstar for supereasy defense.

Shadows can switch to tankspec for crazy ball carrier in huttball even though their main spec is dps.

Civil War, Solo shadow can burst someone down in dps spec capture the turret swtich to tank spec so he can easier hold it untill reinforcement arrives.

Kusumura's Avatar


Kusumura
04.30.2012 , 09:21 AM | #500
Quote: Originally Posted by wiazabi View Post
Cons

If they let people switch spec during warzones they can adjust to stuff like switch to tank / heal spec in voidstar for supereasy defense.

Shadows can switch to tankspec for crazy ball carrier in huttball even though their main spec is dps.

Civil War, Solo shadow can burst someone down in dps spec capture the turret swtich to tank spec so he can easier hold it untill reinforcement arrives.
This is why in WoW, there's a restriction on swapping out to your off-talent spec while inside of a battleground. You aren't allowed to do it. Whatever spec you clicked the, "ENTER BATTLEGROUND," button as is the one you're locked into playing as for that round.

It's a good system.
Quote: Originally Posted by Kusumura
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