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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

BobFredJohn's Avatar

12.11.2014 , 09:33 AM | #5621
Quote: Originally Posted by BlueShiftRecall View Post
Edit: // Has anyone noticed that Tanks are in high demand for 60ís HM and Opís? On my heals I seem to wait a very long time for a HM 60 pop no matter what time of the day at least 20-30min (can only imagine DPS wait times) each time whereas when on my Tank it doesnít seem to matter what time of day Iím on I pop instantly. Iíve also noticed on fleet chat for the new 60 op groupís people constantly spamming for tanks. Makes me lol that people seem to be crying out / begging for tanks and yet usually do nothing but bad mouth every little mistake they make once they have one and then wonder why no one wants to roll one
Tanking correctly requires good (I would use the word innate but thats abit over the top) understanding of all the pulls and boss fights (for example on a trash pull, if the tank knows that 3 enemies will run out of the door to the left, the fight is easier).

It used to be that (though not so much any more due to healer nerf and mob damage buff) that dps was the easy "ill tag along as dps until I know the fights, then I can heal/tank them".

It certainly was for me, when I started learning the 55 ops I did so with my guild. I would play dps, we ran SM's, they taught me fight tactics as though it was HM etc. Once I knew the fights as dps we did the same with my healer then tank, then I went to HM with dps first, healer then tank.

If people were to continue following that then its likely that people who play a number of roles will want to learn the fight from the (relative) simple role of dps rather than jump in as a tank in which they are expected to know how to control each and every pull (even when running with DerPS).

The other issue is, as you said, the tank will get abuse from everybody if they don't hold every spec of aggro in every pull (I have sometimes had dps complaining that they had to kill 1 standard enemy that I made no effort to grab aggro on, why would I bother getting aggro on a standard who is being shot by a dps?) The main issue there is people who don't play tanks and therefore have no idea how its done, then decide the tank is aweful without even knowing the specifics of the pull (for example my shadow being accused of pathetic tanking in SM mando raiders first boss because "the dogs were all over the place").
Teach me not what to think, but how to think

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. People are also entitled to ridicule your opinion if it is BS.

ImanolValentine's Avatar

12.11.2014 , 10:40 AM | #5622
Many peeps are "scared" of using a Tank. Others find it "boring" (jeez, Tank is *********** funny). Thus, the number of TpC (tanks per character, new term, copyright Scaurgy 2014) is really low. Also, we tanks being bored of (and probably ignoring) some idiotic "pros" (notice I use "pro" as a bad word meaning "someone who does know what he has to do and for that thinks himself better, doesn't play to have fun but to win, will take the credit when things turn right and blame everyone when gone wrong") makes us prefer going on guild runs than pugs, so for when there's a call most of us have already done the op.

I my case, there're two or three dps I never team up with (blaming the rest for their mistakes, that I can't stand), whereas there're some players (a tank, some dps) that usually call me directly to go ops. Thus, I usually am locked. This is very common for us tanks as good players pay attention not just to how good healers are doing but also to tanks, and as there are not a lot of tanks (and just a small group that can be considered as "good") it's very likely people contact us directly, so when a pug comes up there are not many tanks left. I think this is all why there's always tank spamming.
Republic: Nahaledja // Vanguard Tank // Guild: Por la Repķblica
Empire: Scaurgy // Juggernaut Tank // Guild: Mano del Emperador

Halinalle's Avatar

12.11.2014 , 11:25 AM | #5623
In SWTOR, as a tank you have to:
- know all pulls (if you can do it blindfolded it's only "decent")
- hold aggro on everything within 100m even if it means death
- have highest rated gear with highest rated set bonus (anything else = you're undergeared)

That's why I don't queue on my tanks.

This "DPS doesn't have DCDs" thing is funny because, as a DPS, every time I get hit by anything even once it only gives me one more reason to kill that enemy ASAP.

venomlash's Avatar

12.13.2014 , 01:25 AM | #5624
Groupfinder short story:

Healed a run of HM Cademimu on my Commando. One of the DPS was a Dirty Fighting Gunslinger. I notice he's putting the Hemorrhaging Blast debuff on enemies and using Wounding Shots, but there's no sign of any DoTs on enemies. I tell him to DoT enemies up before using Wounding Shots, as it pretty much doesn't do diddly otherwise. His response:
"It procs Quickdraw."
In his defense, he was apparently more used to Sharpshooter and just switched over, but dayum. A DoT spec that doesn't use DoTs.

Also, who let this thread slip down to page 2 of the subforum?

BobFredJohn's Avatar

12.13.2014 , 05:14 PM | #5625
nothing at all to do with group finder or (as such) other players but I found it hilarious. Its to do with the end of the rishi storyline so spoilers

Teach me not what to think, but how to think

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. People are also entitled to ridicule your opinion if it is BS.

midianlord's Avatar

12.14.2014 , 02:07 AM | #5626
Quote: Originally Posted by venomlash View Post

Also, who let this thread slip down to page 2 of the subforum?
Lololol, brilliant

I assure you, the new level 60 hardmodes are certainly ensuring that the Bads God's insatiable hunger is appeased.

And, consider the thread duly bumped, FOR GREAT JUSTICE(TM).
Merc and 'Slinger since launch, Merc and 'Slinger for life
(Feels good, doesn't it? Well it certainly does for me!)

BlueShiftRecall's Avatar

12.14.2014 , 02:55 AM | #5627
Havenít been doing any 60 HMís because Iíve been waiting for the next patch to fix the weekly and hopefully give better commís because my repair bills are not worth a few basicís.

Earlier in the week I did SM DP 16m op on my 60 heals, we got to the last boss and ended up disbanding. Anyway today I saw on fleet someone advertising 16m DP for last boss, and I remember thinking it was my lucky day that there was another non-group finder op where I as a 60 could join and at the last boss to! I join up zone in and meet up with the others in the final boss area and notice that we only have 12 people and I figure that weíre just waiting on others and the leader is still advertising. A few minutes later the leader arrives and says that this is so easy we can do it with just the 12 of us. I ask who the tanks are and the leader replied that only HM needs tank scrubs (umm ok?) and I noticed we also have one other healer so we have 10 DPS, 2 heals and no tanks on the final boss of DP 16m mode. Someone else says theyíre new to the fight and the op leader just says ďjust follow me lolz.Ē Iím just about to leave because this op leader has to be trolling but before I do the leader starts and I have never in my entire life seen such a chaotic display in my pugging life but to put it plainly everyone goes down super fast. I revive in phased area only to get a message from op leader along the lines of ďOMG you healers suck so hard, we donít need you scrubsĒ followed by a few more profanities. Obviously Iím out of there and quit and not 1 minute later I get a message from the leader along the lines of, ďOMG lolz canít you take a joke come back we need heals.Ē I block the guy and get on with some dailies. Worst OP PUG experience for me EVER

venomlash's Avatar

12.14.2014 , 04:07 AM | #5628
Groupfinder short story part II: Electrified Water Boogaloo

Get slotted to heal HM Czerka Corporate Labs, level 59 Commando. Tank is 58 Guardian, DPS are 58 Combat Sentinel and 58 Telekinetics Sage. First boss hits enrage at 50%. Since we're overleveled for it and because I must be the patron saint of healing or something, we clear it with only one death (Sentinel lagged, stood in water, eventually disconnected.)
Sage is never putting Weaken Mind (or Mind Crush) on the boss. I tell him to use his DoTs. We clear down, kill second boss EXTREMELY SLOWLY with only the Sage dying (guess what he died to). We clear down, kill third boss EXTREMELY SLOWLY. The Sage lets adds out but doesn't burn the blue guys, so I have to spam-heal a lot. Amazingly no deaths, though I ran out of ammo during the burn phase at the end. We got a replacement during the fight who came in and stood apologetically outside the locked door until it was all over.

I've seen the Eradicator Droid enrage at 30% due to low DPS (and actually healed through it successfully on my Scoundrel, pre-3.0 this was, story ended up on page 407 of this thread), but I've never seen it enrage at 50%. I know there was a DPS nerf and a stat squish, but everyone's gear was okay and we overgeared it, and STILL the DPS took twice as long to kill it as they should have.

BobFredJohn's Avatar

12.14.2014 , 05:00 AM | #5629
my first ever lvl 60 HM fp run. rattaka prime, I am on my 45k sniper, theres a 44k sorc dps, 47k jugg tank and 45k merc healer.

The other dps says hello, I say "hi, im new here do you lot mind explaining the fights to me?", the healer stays quiet and the tank says "shut up and get moving" (he is waiting for us by the first pull).

The first pull is those 4 dog/cat type things in which we each get aggro on a separate 1, I get the 1 I shot, other dps gets 1, tank tunnel visions 1 and healer gets the last, I kill mine first and get the healers too while the sorc finishes off the tanks one.

Second pull just inside the cave the tank tunnelvisisons, I start shooting 1 of the dogs and the sorc AOE's everything. The sorc therefore grabs all aggro, hp plummets and they resort to aggro dump and force barrier. Everything now moves to the healer (tank is still attacking his 1 enemy) and I start working on ripping aggro. Once I have aggro on 2 strongs and a standards I work on killing them with the healer working his backside off keeping me up.

Next pull is pretty much the same, tank tunnel visions, other dps opens with aoe then runs away and I end up peeling off the healer. so is the next, and the next, and the next and every other pull too. At the pull just before the first boss its the same again, but this time I get a whisper from the healer saying "thanks". Its nice when people appreciate my work, I thank him back for his awesome heals (theres points where I have 4 or 5 enemies on me at once, I couldn't keep a dps up through that on a 55 HM pre 3.0 with a sorc, so keeping a dps alive in 60 HM post 3.0 with a merc is incredible).

At the first boss I ask for kill order as I have never done it on hm. The tank tells me to kill rancor first and take adds (I don't remember adds on the first fight in tfp, but hell this is HM, the fights are bound to be stepped up). We do the fight, me keeping an eye out for the adds, moving when the bloke sticks fire under me (except when stun break is on CD) etc. We complete the fight without a sinlge add turning up. I assume the tank had it wrong. The tank then chides the whole group;
tank: "when you lot have aggro stand still, dont run round like a headless chicken"
me: "nobody has been kiting"
tank: "I know but im just saying"
me: "so you know nobody is doing it wrong but your still going to tell us not to?"
tank: "just stand still when you get aggro so I can pull off you"
healer: "lol"
tank: "what?"
healer: *whisper to me* "have you ever seen him grab aggro off you or me?"
me: *whispering back* "no"
me: "we all are standing still, nobody is doing anything wrong" (I decide not to point out the healer takes aggro on every single pull due to pathetic tanking) "whats the problem?"
tank: "ffs, just forget I said anything"

We carry on, every single trash pull going just like the previous ones, me ripping off the healer and the healer giving a masterclass on merc healing to anybody who is watching, while the tank gives a great demonstration of how not to tank.

At the smashing the 4 crates the sorc dps and healer decide they want to start cc'ing (I cant blame them with this tank). At every pull they stop and mark 2 enemies. Then we wait for the tank to jump in (I always prefer to cc after the tank has pulled so I don't get aggro from pulling first). However the tank just stands there and says "go on then, cc". I start to explain he should pull then we cc (unless its stealth ofc) but don't get a chance to finish.

2 targets in every single pull are marked before we start, these are the sorc and merc's separate cc marks. Every single time, after the cc's are marked and cast and all the un-cc'd enemies run at the healer and sorc the tank leaps to 1 of the cc'd enemies, then runs over to the second and tunnel-visions it. It then turns back into me peeling off the healer while the tank breaks 2 cc's and tunnel visions 1 of them. This happens on 2 pulls before the merc questions it;
healer: "why are you breaking cc"
tank: "I attack the targets you marked"
me: "they are marked for cc"
tank: "dumb noob, you mark the enemies you want to kill first"
healer: "no, the marks are ones we are going to cc"
tank: "oh ok, your doing it all backwards, we will do it like that then"

Next pull the tank breaks both cc then tunnel visions, and on the following 1,and the 1 after that. The sorc and merc decide to give up cc'ing.

We get to the second boss and the tank tells us (rudely) not to aoe until after he has done smash. I do as he asks, so does the sorc, as the tank jumps in I start single target dps on 1 enemy, deciding that by the time it is dead the tank will have aggro and I can knock everything down with an OS.

Then I notice who the tank jumped at, the boss. He then tunnel visions the boss who is invincible in the air while all 12 adds come at us 3. Me and the sorc have it covered, we all stack up, I pop OS where we are stood, the sorc does force storm and once my OS is cast I spam supressive fire. All the while the healer is healing through the red circles and writing in chat to the tank, asking him to get adds first. We kill the adds, attack the boss for a while, when the next adds come its rinse and repeat. The healer asks the tank about it afterwards;
healer: "you do know the boss is invincible until the adds are dead"
tank: "adds are the dps's job, I am building up an aggro cushion"
me: "you need to pick up some adds too"
tank: "who died exactly? whats the problem"
healer: "yeah we got through it, but you had nothing to do with that, it was because all the adds couldn't attack due to knockdown from OS and killed by force storm before they can get back up."
tank: "whatever noobs"

We fight through to the last boss, trash going exactly the same as before and nobody bothering to cc.

At the final boss I ask about kill order. The tank tells me to burn arkous first, then pulls. I start shooting arkous, the other boss goes for the healer so I switch. The tank writes in chat to shoot arkous. I switch back. The sorc and healer are both attacking the trooper guy, with me and the tank on arkous (and often ripping aggro through this tank). The the healer speaks up;
healer: "sniper"
me: "yes?"
healer: "shoot trooper"
me: *switches to trooper* "sorry, tank said arkous first"
healer: "he has it wrong"
me: "oh, sorry, but if someone has given be bad instructions please tell me before we pull"
tank: "lol bad instructions? you 3 clearly don't know the fight"
me: "yeah, I don't, hence why I asked"

We complete the fight and before I click the console I quickly check achievements as I am abit curious....This is the tanks first run of rattaka ever (not even on tfp). Turns out I was taking advice on the fights from somebody who knows less than me lol. We finish up, I add the healer to friends and zone out.
Teach me not what to think, but how to think

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. People are also entitled to ridicule your opinion if it is BS.

venomlash's Avatar

12.14.2014 , 09:46 PM | #5630
Groupfinder Short Story part III: PLEASE MAKE IT STOP

Queue as 59 Commando, get pop to heal for HM Czerka Labs. Tank is Vanguard, DPS are Sage and Sentinel. They're in so-so gear but I figure we should be just fine. There I go being an optimist again.

Tank proceeds to go jumping down the atrium ramps to get to the bottom without getting the cards. He ignores my reminder that we need to get the cards, and then proceeds to split the party, chainpull groups despite the fact that I'm still near the top trying to get to the first keycard without pulling, and eventually get us all killed by a swarm of mobs all rushing up the stairs together. One of the DPS just NOPEs the heck out, I concur and drop group as well. The last thing I see is the tank futilely yelling in chat that he knows what he's doing.