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Class Change Feedback in 5.3 and 5.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class Change Feedback in 5.3 and 5.4
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fifteendollers's Avatar


fifteendollers
07.07.2017 , 05:17 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
Yeah, they are definitely wight up there with "Heal to full". The problem is, they get feedback that doesn't fit their "metrics" so they disregard it and then wonder why people are upset or the game is broken.

I'm off to look for a friendly raiding guild in ESO.
Maybe the feedback is just wrong.

DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
07.07.2017 , 05:19 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
You can go to Parsley and see what some very specific people intentionally uploaded to parsley. You can see what very good RNG can do, and what exceptionally skilled players can do, some of them. That is not representitive of the norm or the average. People don't generally get 50% critical hits/heals.

Even if there is 20 parses up for a section, what is that, maybe less than 1% of the actual number of people who play that spec around the world?

(snip)

It's also completely PVE based, and has no representation of PVP, you know, the other part of the game. Parses mean zero in PVP.
I agree, which means Parsley is actually showing better numbers for all classes than what the average in game would be. That makes their planned nerfs even more foolish.

And as for PVP, I honestly don't give a !@%$!@. HOwever, I do believe they need to balance PVE and PVP separately. They've been trying for 5 years to get it right doing the two together and haven't even come close, and never will. The requirements for both types of play are different and they haven't worked on that part.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Devs gambled everything on GC RNG, but they didn't even get green loot.
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DenariusJay's Avatar


DenariusJay
07.07.2017 , 05:29 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Since we took so long to make changes after the release of KOTET (5.0), we had quite a few big changes to make, and that’s what you’ve been reading the last few weeks. It is going to be rough for some Disciplines as they are way over target, but it is important that we bring them in line.[/b] Additionally, we may have missed the mark with some of the changes and if we went too far or not far enough, you can expect to see additional adjustments in the future. Going forward, it is our intent to stay on top of Class balance so changes will be less severe/sweeping than they are in 5.3 and the upcoming 5.4 patch in August.
-eric
I'm happy to hear this Eric, I commented on this back in june 17 in the Arsenal thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...15#post9334415

With the news that you guys are going to address balance changes more frequently will definitely mitigate the extreme responses when we get balance changes now. People like small tweaks more frequently, in the manner of "fine tuning" instead of letting something be broken for 7 months then having to deal with it in a large way, which ensues in an uproar because players 'perceive' that there class is being "gutted".

Please stay true to this philosophy of more frequent smaller tweaks and I think you guys will have a better reception in the future when it comes to class balance!
server: The Hot Prospect (10/4/2017 #NEVERFORGET)
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Rooff's Avatar


Rooff
07.07.2017 , 05:35 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post

I can go to Parsely and see the actual in-game performance against the ingame content. It doesn't even come close to what BW claims for Healer Sage/Sorc or for Arsenal/Gunnery. But then, that's been the problem all along. BW comes up with "metrics" that don't reflect reality, then acts on them like they were gospel then wonder why the players are angry or stop paying subs. Somehow, I don't expect it to change any time soon, but you've got my opinion on it.
My subscription runs out in about 6weeks. If my guild is telling me to re-roll to stay in the progression group, due to these changes I will just let the subscription run out and move on

fifteendollers's Avatar


fifteendollers
07.07.2017 , 05:37 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Rooff View Post
My subscription runs out in about 6weeks. If my guild is telling me to re-roll to stay in the progression group, due to these changes I will just let the subscription run out and move on
Get a better guild.

fifteendollers's Avatar


fifteendollers
07.07.2017 , 05:41 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
I agree, which means Parsley is actually showing better numbers for all classes than what the average in game would be. That makes their planned nerfs even more foolish
What? Either they are balancing around Parsley or they aren't. Make up your mind.

Exly's Avatar


Exly
07.07.2017 , 05:46 PM | #27
So, what you are basically saying is that you hear what we say, and you understand some of the points that we make, but you have internal targets based on outdated time on target issues that where in place when the game launched (before you added more gap closers and improved movement with things like op rolls), and because of that you want some classes to under perform in the game while others are designed to over perform.

p.s. You should know that I do not feel slighted by the changes that you made. It makes no difference to me if you made them for PvE or for PvP, however, I am angry at you for some of the changes that I feel were done for the wrong reason, or were too harsh, and I know others that are angry as well, and I strongly suspect that you have made many other people angry as well, and that is not good for the overall health of the game.

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J_McSkill
07.07.2017 , 05:53 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by dscount View Post
I'm a SORC Heals that has been playing since founder and this nerf to me is basically a "Go roll FOTM Healer". I've seen you nerf us before, but nothing like this. Your approach due to CXP should have been "BUFF" the other healers (Which I think are not that far behind our class).
Two things, first off you believe this game needs more heals??? You must love easy mode gameplay....

Second, you've played sorc healer for almost 6 years, in that time you've been the most overpowered heal spec in the game, so don't complain that they are bringing you in line with other healers.

The thing I love about CXP is that it screws over those players that always have to be flavor of the month, which is a great thing!
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Chemists's Avatar


Chemists
07.07.2017 , 06:03 PM | #29
And still no mention of Carnage/Combat, I don't think their testing team knows Clipping exists.
Jaymis / Septimus
All 8-man content and timed runs cleared pre 5.2
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fifteendollers's Avatar


fifteendollers
07.07.2017 , 06:05 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

One of the topics we have seen come up a bit in the past couple of weeks is all of your feedback regarding Class changes and what is happening with it. We understand we have not kept you updated on the threads where we posted the Class changes so we want to talk through what happens next and how we will use your feedback.

For a multitude of reasons, Class balance is one of the most challenging communication topics. We dislike having to nerf a Class as much as you do, but sometimes we have to do it for the overall health of our game (as we talked about in our "How Class Balance Happens” thread). We understand that no one ever likes to see the effectiveness of their Class reduced. It can change the way you play, take enjoyment out of playing that Class, and make you feel slighted if you believe the changes happened because of another type of gameplay (PvE or PvP) which you don't even participate in. We are very sensitive to all of these things.

We knew Class changes were a top priority, so we provided insight about how we intended to balance all Classes ahead of next week’s patch. Since we took so long to make changes after the release of KOTET (5.0), we had quite a few big changes to make, and that’s what you’ve been reading the last few weeks. It is going to be rough for some Disciplines as they are way over target, but it is important that we bring them in line. Additionally, we may have missed the mark with some of the changes and if we went too far or not far enough, you can expect to see additional adjustments in the future. Going forward, it is our intent to stay on top of Class balance so changes will be less severe/sweeping than they are in 5.3 and the upcoming 5.4 patch in August.

Let's get a little more specific! The following list is not comprehensive, but here is some of the key feedback we have read coming out of the Class change posts:
  • Arsenal/Gunnery needed survivability/utility nerfs, not DPS - As we said in the balance thread, we want to get damage targets in line first before we touch too much utility. They did get a slight nerf to survivability in 5.3, and we will monitor both their damage and ability to stay alive going forward.
  • Corruption/Seer nerfs went too far and may also negatively impact DPS - Admittedly those two Disciplines were substantially overperforming and will receive the most significant nerfs in 5.3. But, we will watch their performance closely and make changes if we’ve gone too far. The same is true of the impact on "Sorc/Sage bubble" for DPS. We’ll change it or give them other defensive options to compensate if needed.
  • Madness/Balance buffs are nice but they are still Force negative! - Beyond the changes already listed, they are receiving a buff to their Force regeneration to no longer be rotationally negative. We have doubled the effect of Sith Efficacy / Psychic Barrier so that each channel of Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw will restore 8% of total Force (minus the cost). To be clear, that’s a net of +3 per tick of damage or +12 total Force per channel, not including the ongoing passive Force regeneration that also occurs during the channel.

When we start talking about 5.4 changes, we will work to do better in keeping the conversation alive around Class balance. This way we can make sure everyone has a clear understanding of all concerns/feedback going into the update.

Thanks everyone!

-eric
Here we have Bioware having to repeat themselves because people didn't bother to listen to them the first time.