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Class Change Feedback in 5.3 and 5.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class Change Feedback in 5.3 and 5.4
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Saregon's Avatar


Saregon
07.07.2017 , 04:36 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Madness/Balance buffs are nice but they are still Force negative! - Beyond the changes already listed, they are receiving a buff to their Force regeneration to no longer be rotationally negative. We have doubled the effect of Sith Efficacy / Psychic Barrier so that each channel of Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw will restore 8% of total Force (minus the cost). To be clear, that’s a net of +3 per tick of damage or +12 total Force per channel, not including the ongoing passive Force regeneration that also occurs during the channel.[/list]
If you're helping the force management of Madness/Balance, you should also be helping the heat management of IO/Assault. They are both ranged dot dps specs and both have horrible resource management. Resource management isn't fun, playing and being able to use abilities is fun. I understand there needs to be a little management, but the entire spec shouldn't revolve around it...as that in no way makes it "fun".
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IntegrationArch's Avatar


IntegrationArch
07.07.2017 , 04:40 PM | #12
Good to know but what else is cooking for 5.4 patch in a month or more if 5.3 is on the 11th please?

New megaserver?

New shadowing you podcasted about?

Any other bread crumbs please?

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
07.07.2017 , 04:45 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by azamba View Post
Ok, we got all that before, I think. Thanks for explaining in detail.

My complaint here is, What about the other classes that are not receiving a much deserved NERF in 5.3, like Mara (at least carnage), Operative (at least lethality) and Assassin Deception, for instance, all of them are way above their DPS Target (lethality reach 10% above dps target where it should be "only" 5%) and gonna stay that way in 5.3, doing much more dps than everyone else now. One would think they should also be priority since are doing, like all the others that will be nerfed, above their dps target.
Does that seems fair to you? Why aren't they receiving a nerf in 5.3 too? And more importantly, WHEN will these classes/builds see this nerf?
Coincidentally, they are all MDPS...

The IO Merc who just got nerfed pointing fingers at the mDPS classes two of which are in the "on target DPS" cateogory.

How shocking.

Deception Assassin and Marauders have been repeatedly sighted from 5.0 till present as the most balanced DPS specs in the game. Now that the ranged have got nerf they want to point fingers at the melee classes who didn't get buffed going into 5.0.

Because OP Ranged got nerfed, doesn't mean we got buffed, we didn't. We're the same as we have been all along.

Now they're all crying melee. Pathetic.

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
07.07.2017 , 04:52 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
There's a difference between EHPS and burst healing. Sure a sorc might have had slightly higher EHPS than intended, but their burst healing was weaker than the other 2 classes. With the new nerfs, stuff like the NiM Raptus healing challenge will encourage people to leave their sorcs and bring a merc instead.
Since when have operatives had better burst healing than sorcs?
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DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
07.07.2017 , 04:57 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Let's get a little more specific! The following list is not comprehensive, but here is some of the key feedback we have read coming out of the Class change posts:
  • Arsenal/Gunnery needed survivability/utility nerfs, not DPS - As we said in the balance thread, we want to get damage targets in line first before we touch too much utility. They did get a slight nerf to survivability in 5.3, and we will monitor both their damage and ability to stay alive going forward.
  • Corruption/Seer nerfs went too far and may also negatively impact DPS - Admittedly those two Disciplines were substantially overperforming and will receive the most significant nerfs in 5.3. But, we will watch their performance closely and make changes if we’ve gone too far. The same is true of the impact on "Sorc/Sage bubble" for DPS. We’ll change it or give them other defensive options to compensate if needed.
  • Madness/Balance buffs are nice but they are still Force negative! - Beyond the changes already listed, they are receiving a buff to their Force regeneration to no longer be rotationally negative. We have doubled the effect of Sith Efficacy / Psychic Barrier so that each channel of Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw will restore 8% of total Force (minus the cost). To be clear, that’s a net of +3 per tick of damage or +12 total Force per channel, not including the ongoing passive Force regeneration that also occurs during the channel.
Sorry, Eric, but I don't buy it. Your thread on how and why is total garbage as is the theory behind how BW wants to do balance. But, I'm sure BW doesn't want my feedback on that anymore than they want the feedback from anyone else who has told them the same thing.

I can go to Parsely and see the actual in-game performance against the ingame content. It doesn't even come close to what BW claims for Healer Sage/Sorc or for Arsenal/Gunnery. But then, that's been the problem all along. BW comes up with "metrics" that don't reflect reality, then acts on them like they were gospel then wonder why the players are angry or stop paying subs. Somehow, I don't expect it to change any time soon, but you've got my opinion on it.

The entire real reason for the nerfs is to force the people playing the popular classes to have to regrind for gear to go back to ding the same content we've been doing for years now. BW is just hoping we'll all stick around through the end of the year that way. That's not going to happen, at least not for me. Nerf my class so it doesn't perform as needed by my raid group (like you did my telekenisis sage previously) and I'll unsub, again, after Tuesday. The difference is, this time I'll be gone. There are other games that have better play and so on that I am willing to pay for. SWTOR is barely worth it now and if you make it so I can't play like i am now, SWTOR won't be worth the money at all.

Good luck. I don't expect you to listen or care, but there it is.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Devs gambled everything on GC RNG, but they didn't even get green loot.
REGULATORS

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.07.2017 , 05:02 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
There's a difference between EHPS and burst healing. Sure a sorc might have had slightly higher EHPS than intended, but their burst healing was weaker than the other 2 classes. With the new nerfs, stuff like the NiM Raptus healing challenge will encourage people to leave their sorcs and bring a merc instead.
Are you really suggesting Sorc are lacking in burst healing? Have you ever played an Operative healer since 3.0? And while Mercs do have solid single target burst, I'm not even sure they can beat sorc burst as it is on live

DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
07.07.2017 , 05:06 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by teclado View Post
Maybe if it were possible to transfer Command Rank from one character to another, people would be less upset?
You'd have to be able to trade gear straight across for set bonuses as well, without having to pay to move the mods around again. Otherwise it wouldn't help.

Quote: Originally Posted by dscount View Post
Sorry, but this approach of "Suck it up buttercup" falls inline with a previous parody when dev team told us to "Heal to Full and make them pay" in PVP.

Just Heal to Full (a SWTOR parody of James Blunt's "You're Beautiful")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbQgvvFLawM

My apologies Eric and Keith. You guys are being great at communications in general, but you really keep dropping the ball big time on "Feedback" about class changes. Couple of those have been up for a few weeks and ZERO responses. Please extend your new communications model into ALL conversations of huge impact to the community.
Yeah, they are definitely wight up there with "Heal to full". The problem is, they get feedback that doesn't fit their "metrics" so they disregard it and then wonder why people are upset or the game is broken. (GC and 5.0 is a perfect example of that, it never should have gone live with the gearing system they decided on. And, in spite of what they claim, it's still broken.)

I'm off to look for a friendly raiding guild in ESO.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Devs gambled everything on GC RNG, but they didn't even get green loot.
REGULATORS

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.07.2017 , 05:13 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
I can go to Parsely and see the actual in-game performance against the ingame content. It doesn't even come close to what BW claims for Healer Sage/Sorc or for Arsenal/Gunnery. But then, that's been the problem all along. BW comes up with "metrics" that don't reflect reality, then acts on them like they were gospel then wonder why the players are angry or stop paying subs. Somehow, I don't expect it to change any time soon, but you've got my opinion on it.
I can look at starparse statistics and show you that Sorcs make up around 50% of healers and Mercs make up around 30% of all DPS, with over 90% of them playing Arsenal. If that's not indicative of some sort of problem, I don't know what is

menofhorror's Avatar


menofhorror
07.07.2017 , 05:13 PM | #19
The communication is much appreciated.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
07.07.2017 , 05:15 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post

I can go to Parsely and see the actual in-game performance against the ingame content. It doesn't even come close to what BW claims for Healer Sage/Sorc or for Arsenal/Gunnery..
You can go to Parsley and see what some very specific people intentionally uploaded to parsley. You can see what very good RNG can do, and what exceptionally skilled players can do, some of them. That is not representitive of the norm or the average. People don't generally get 50% critical hits/heals.

Even if there is 20 parses up for a section, what is that, maybe less than 1% of the actual number of people who play that spec around the world?


I've used parsely too. I never once uploaded an average performance parse, or any of the 19 wipes on NiM Boss X before getting the clear.

Parsley is a 3rd party website. The game does not use it for it's internal metrics. If we use parsely for class balance, Lighting Sorcs need a DPS nerf. How many times have you matched the number one highest parse? Most people don't. You don't base averages on the best.

Parsley is great for a learning tool, to compare rotations and such, and to get some performance ideas and it's good for bragging rights. Most people aren't the best of the best. Got some very skilled players on there, no doubt, but they shouldn't be used as the standard.

It's also completely PVE based, and has no representation of PVP, you know, the other part of the game. Parses mean zero in PVP.