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Class Change Feedback in 5.3 and 5.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class Change Feedback in 5.3 and 5.4
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DmdShiva's Avatar


DmdShiva
07.08.2017 , 10:24 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
I can go to Parsely and see the actual in-game performance against the ingame content. It doesn't even come close to what BW claims for Healer Sage/Sorc or for Arsenal/Gunnery. But then, that's been the problem all along. BW comes up with "metrics" that don't reflect reality, then acts on them like they were gospel then wonder why the players are angry or stop paying subs. Somehow, I don't expect it to change any time soon, but you've got my opinion on it.
After watching the City of Heroes devs announce a significant nerf to the Regeneration powerset based on their internal testing showing that a solo Claws/Regen Scrapper could defeat spawns of mobs seven levels higher sized for an 8-person team, then, despite the protests of the entire playerbase claiming that this was flat-out impossible, going ahead and applying the nerf after admitting that they'd found a bug in their internal test server that didn't reduce a player's chance to hit against higher-level mobs that would have reduced the scrapper's hit chances by 90% and claiming that the powerset still needed the nerf, I've stopped believing that game developers bother looking at actual statistics from real gameplay; it's so much easier to set up artificial conditions to test against, where optimally-geared characters using perfect rotations against artificial targets that don't act like actual in-game mobs give them the numbers they use to decide where to hand out the next set of nerfs.

kvandertulip's Avatar


kvandertulip
07.08.2017 , 11:42 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Let's get a little more specific! The following list is not comprehensive, but here is some of the key feedback we have read coming out of the Class change posts:
  • Arsenal/Gunnery needed survivability/utility nerfs, not DPS - As we said in the balance thread, we want to get damage targets in line first before we touch too much utility. They did get a slight nerf to survivability in 5.3, and we will monitor both their damage and ability to stay alive going forward.
  • Corruption/Seer nerfs went too far and may also negatively impact DPS - Admittedly those two Disciplines were substantially overperforming and will receive the most significant nerfs in 5.3. But, we will watch their performance closely and make changes if we’ve gone too far. The same is true of the impact on "Sorc/Sage bubble" for DPS. We’ll change it or give them other defensive options to compensate if needed.
  • Madness/Balance buffs are nice but they are still Force negative! - Beyond the changes already listed, they are receiving a buff to their Force regeneration to no longer be rotationally negative. We have doubled the effect of Sith Efficacy / Psychic Barrier so that each channel of Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw will restore 8% of total Force (minus the cost). To be clear, that’s a net of +3 per tick of damage or +12 total Force per channel, not including the ongoing passive Force regeneration that also occurs during the channel.
Add that Virulence/Dirty Fighting will no longer be viable in pvp due to the nerfs to its burst capability to this list.

scardera's Avatar


scardera
07.08.2017 , 11:42 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by ivanhedgehog View Post
It indicates that they over nerfed sorc dps to garbage and the only useful thing to do with them was heal.. So of course people respeced to heal. Arsenal is a lot more fun for mercs, and swtor is a game, its supposed to be fun. Pushing poeple away from fun isnt smart. Its like disney deciding that a ride is too popular and making it not as much fun so that people go to the other, less fun rides. Balancing due to popularity is idiotic.
^^ this simple most people prefer ranged dps since Sorc dps are useless now people turned to Arsenal

Hichitsuki-hime's Avatar


Hichitsuki-hime
07.09.2017 , 02:31 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by scardera View Post
^^ this simple most people prefer ranged dps since Sorc dps are useless now people turned to Arsenal
and now arsenal got a nerfbat as well >.> it's a never-ending cycle really
The Red Eclipse: Ka'nata (madness sorc) <Indefinite>;
Ebon Hawk: Sa'yana <Army of Light>
5/5 NiM TFB; 7/7 NiM S&V; 5/5 NiM DF; 3/5 NIM DP; 5/5 HM RAV; 5/5 HM ToS
#Fix SAGE DPS # R.I.P. SAGE HEALS

mmmbuddah's Avatar


mmmbuddah
07.09.2017 , 02:49 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by azamba View Post
Ok, we got all that before, I think. Thanks for explaining in detail.

My complaint here is, What about the other classes that are not receiving a much deserved NERF in 5.3, like Mara (at least carnage), Operative (at least lethality) and Assassin Deception, for instance, all of them are way above their DPS Target (lethality reach 10% above dps target where it should be "only" 5%) and gonna stay that way in 5.3, doing much more dps than everyone else now. One would think they should also be priority since are doing, like all the others that will be nerfed, above their dps target.
Does that seems fair to you? Why aren't they receiving a nerf in 5.3 too? And more importantly, WHEN will these classes/builds see this nerf?
Coincidentally, they are all MDPS...
Lethatlity should NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE or form be nerfed, it would be an absolute catastrophe for pvp.
Jade D.
That Republic Trans Girl You Love

mmmbuddah's Avatar


mmmbuddah
07.09.2017 , 02:50 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
There's a difference between EHPS and burst healing. Sure a sorc might have had slightly higher EHPS than intended, but their burst healing was weaker than the other 2 classes. With the new nerfs, stuff like the NiM Raptus healing challenge will encourage people to leave their sorcs and bring a merc instead.
Thats a good thing, healin on sorc was beyond broken.
Jade D.
That Republic Trans Girl You Love

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
07.09.2017 , 03:03 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by azamba View Post
Ok, we got all that before, I think. Thanks for explaining in detail.

My complaint here is, What about the other classes that are not receiving a much deserved NERF in 5.3, like Mara (at least carnage), Operative (at least lethality) and Assassin Deception, for instance, all of them are way above their DPS Target (lethality reach 10% above dps target where it should be "only" 5%) and gonna stay that way in 5.3, doing much more dps than everyone else now. One would think they should also be priority since are doing, like all the others that will be nerfed, above their dps target.
Does that seems fair to you? Why aren't they receiving a nerf in 5.3 too? And more importantly, WHEN will these classes/builds see this nerf?
Coincidentally, they are all MDPS...
Those classes are fine at the moment... They were shadowed by the FOTM Mercs and Snipers. Now with the nerfs everything will be almost fine balance wise.

I don't think you should worry about classes that have no self heals, right ? Oerative is an exception Unless you have some learn to play issues. Mara and Sin are hard without a heal.

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
07.09.2017 , 04:21 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
Those classes are fine at the moment... They were shadowed by the FOTM Mercs and Snipers. Now with the nerfs everything will be almost fine balance wise.

I don't think you should worry about classes that have no self heals, right ? Oerative is an exception Unless you have some learn to play issues. Mara and Sin are hard without a heal.
I can only agree. But again, like tons of people said, the problem wasn't about dps. It was more about those "3 more health bar". Merc were fine in 4.0 without all of this self heal.

BW is cute, looking at players parse and saying "dang, they're hurting, we should change this, it doesn't correspond with our top secret target dps !"

I still wonder what are those target dps... I'm sure it's "9k2" or something like this on a 500k hp dummy with armor reduction... Like someone said, you shouldn't balance class and dps based on pure dummy-fighting but instead balance it so that every content of the game is doable with every class in every spec... This isn't the case since 4.0... Or maybe even before but I don't recall it.

Quote: Originally Posted by mmmbuddah View Post
Thats a good thing, healin on sorc was beyond broken.
The only thing that was broken was, in my opinion, the cooldown on some spell like Roaming Mend and it's low cost. Nerfing healing power wasn't the best option to let this class "good" or even comparable to other heal... But hey, it's way more easier to just nerf everything without appropriate testing for every option. Class balance team must be really busy working on a better game, since the only thing they found for nerfing sorcerer was this.
And I'm not even talking about engineering sniper
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jeronimocollares's Avatar


jeronimocollares
07.09.2017 , 04:54 AM | #109
Swtor need more

- You need to change that old concept about character animation, More fluidity of character movements, models including camera effects, blur, depth of field, etc.;
- Character need to learn to 'block', to do 'roll dodge' (to be more furtive);
- Art direction needs to be improved for new engines, better graphics quality, composition of scenery, lights, post processing, etc .;
- Character can be better, better modeled. We are almost in the year 2018 and the game still has the look of the beginning of the second decade of the 20th century;
- Once we had more complexity in the composition of armor, sets, etc, this involved a lot of people, I think EA games can change that, making the game more competitive.

Etc..

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
07.09.2017 , 05:12 AM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Corruption/Seer nerfs went too far and may also negatively impact DPS - Admittedly those two Disciplines were substantially overperforming and will receive the most significant nerfs in 5.3. But, we will watch their performance closely and make changes if we’ve gone too far. The same is true of the impact on "Sorc/Sage bubble" for DPS. We’ll change it or give them other defensive options to compensate if needed.
When you inform someone that they are going to be handed an explosive, there are 2 options that I want you to consider.

1) You diffuse the explosive before handing it to them. It's not nice but at least it's not going to blow up in anyone's faces.
2) You give them the explosive device and see if they can figure out if they can keep it from exploding in their face but promise to fix it after it blows up in their faces.

I doubt you want to answer this but I really am still amazed that you guys prefer to use option 2. Did you not learn from 5.0 and Galactic Command in particular that this is a costly approach for everyone involved?

I submit to you that the sorceror is an iconic class that gets a lot of attention even without looking at any numbers. People just enjoy the class because well, you can shoot lightning and such. People who just look for dps or hps will just switch classes. Those who love the class for what it is and represents will be disappointed by these nerfs.

Have you not lost enough players I wonder?
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