PvE is NOT PvP... So why, other than "it's needed in PvE" do you feel that gear progression is important in PvP? Having something to work toward should involve earning a higher position on a leader-board through pure skill, not by having your attacks/heals/defensed buffed by better gear. That is a real objective to work toward. If you want gear items, they could cool cosmetic things, like empty moddable gear and unique color crystals and maybe unique unlocks that don't affect game-play other than in a visual way.

go play guild wars whiner

go play guild wars whiner

So let me see if I understand your logic correctly; I'm a whiner because I disagreed with you? You still have yet to answer my original question.

So let me see if I understand your logic correctly; I'm a whiner because I disagreed with you? You still have yet to answer my original question.

The guy needs his expertise to make him a better player. You should be more understanding.

I think making the expertise more even is a good move. It promotes skill over gear. It really needs to be this way because at 50, everyone is just thrown in a big pot left to fend for themselves. Sure, the game tries to match evenly matched players, but that doesn't always work, and certainly won't help you at the den. When my agent hit 50, I had to claw my way through death after death up against people wearing better gear.

 

As for nerfing sorcs/sages....nerf arguments are as old as MMO's. Nobody who has a class that is being nerfed likes it, and they ALWAYS say they are underpowered....always. Whether the nerf is right or wrong is a matter of opinion and can be discussed in its own thread.

Sir i a gree with you completly, having a whole end game stat liek experteise is what murdered 50pvp for imps on my server, i mean in order to get the weekly done on my server imp side you gotta go through 20-40 matches to get it half way done other wise its jsut beign trolsmashed or face steamed by better geared players and the whole gear dependancy is more dumb than ralph in simpsons

YES to basically getting rid of expertise. It would bring skill back into the game and make it to where the PVP game has a ton more players to compete with. Also, your gear would still matter due to the other stats. This will only make PVP better, IMO. It would enable everyone to participate instead of just the hard core PVPer's who don't midn the long gear grind.

First: love TOR PvP. That's why I have to take this part right here and totally run with it.

However, hate Expertise. I am a mid-game PvPer, because so many players do not use Expertise gear. I expressed throughout prerelease that there should be no PvP stat; it removes skill from the equation and creates a condition of 'Those Who Play versus Those Who Play Way More'. Forget the fact that I might be a fair PvPer who plays to objectives. Forget that I might pursue 'normal' gear builds in pursuit of a given goal; the PvP stat eats depth. There is typically one, and only one, correct way to PvP.

Flattening the Expertise system won't solve the problem (Expertise-geared players versus non-Expertise geared players), but it will be a great start to ensure that stat-for-stat the matches are more equal. PvP is about skill, teamwork, and objectives, with killing being necessary for that third one, and those first two thwarting the killing. I've always said that the better team, not the better-geared individual, should win, such that the RPG Promise is fulfilled for both sides. As Expertise currently is, this just isn't the case.

I won't stop PvPing - as I said, I love using my eclectic builds to mess with people's heads - but let's face it, over-reliance on Expertise isn't helping the game the same way that the broken Resolve system isn't helping. These are decisions that from a player perspective, we the community see opportunity for vast improvement.

That's cause they made it really easy. Try large pve raids like in vanilla wow or even bc where one person screwing up will cause a wipe. Now multiply that by 40 players and see how far you get after couple weeks if not months.

Different game...

Yes, end-game PvE in WoW is actually good if you like that sort of thing (and aren't sick of it after all these years).

This would be a very simple reason not to invest time and money into this game anymore and go F2P.

Maybe for you. For me I like having many alts, and keeping up with the best gear is annoying. I hate how some toons have strong gear and some don't to the point I rarely use my weaker geared toons in pvp. By doing the logical thing and making the gear a cosmetic and not a stat boost, then everybody can play without being bombarded by the most idiotic system I've ever seen.

Seriously there are so many bad well gear players that can only do well because of their gear. Bring in fair gameplay and you get the "fun" element, somebody end-game pvp in swtor completely lacks, and can only typically be found in low level pvp; where it's nearer to "fair gameplay".

Simple fact, if you want the current system to stay, you're most likely horrible at pvp. Both casuals and hardcore pvp fans love fair gameplay.

I was here since beta.

 

I vote no on your proposal.

 

/thread.

Have to agree, even though I am sorcerer giving customers the even those since beta the power to control the way development in PvP mechanics work is just stupid.

Yeah I hear they are nerfing stun bubble, well it isn't even a nerf. Just the backlash only being applicable to the casters bubble and not his party. I don't mind that, even though it would take our group functioning down a huge notch in DPS role. Hopefully they will just overhaul the entire DPS tree.

They should never have made that ability available at such a low tier. But then again the noticed a huge lack of DPS sorcerers in PvP and hoped this would give them some use for their past scuttle.

I would like to see pvp matches across server... and make it expertise scale based. Meaning you only get grouped in with and against others with expertise of 900 - 1050, 1051 - 1200... etc this would help lvl out the playing field and bring some of the skill back and still make it rewarding to get gear.

The problem is these systems always increase queue lenght.

You need gear progression in pvp or there is nothing to work for. I don't understand all of these people saying it should be the same blah blah blah...like seriously....

 

Would you play end game PVE if the only gear you got was one set of armor and that's it..nothing, done.. nodda. NOPE. dumb ppl.

Theres goes another PvEer because of whom PvP was fudged since day 1.

The people that think recruit gear is totally underpowered are really wrong, it does make a difference if the players have the same level of skill. But in a warzone it doesn't really matter unless you suck and if you do, you will suck in wh gear as well.

For some reason every time i lvl a character to 50 and i'm full recruit geared it doesn't seem too make much difference i'm still almost always on top of scoreboard in healing or damage and objectives and it's not because the class is op, this happened on my sage.

If i care about the changes in expertise in recruit gear?

I don't really care, people that suck will always suck no matter what gear they have and people that are good will always shine no matter what gear they have. As i once have seen a sentinel who had almost full wh gear and he still managed to do 30k damage in a civil war and he wasn't defending, he was always on the turret we were attacking (i remeber healing him all the time).

Where did you hear that BW were nerfing sages?

They do need a small buff to their burst damage to be on pair with other dps classes, not counting with rage/focus spec. They need to be really stupid to nerf sages again but i wouldn't be surprised if they did, as we've seen they always seem to do the wrong choices in class balancing.

The people that think recruit gear is totally underpowered are really wrong, it does make a difference if the players have the same level of skill. But in a warzone it doesn't really matter unless you suck and if you do, you will suck in wh gear as well.

For some reason every time i lvl a character to 50 and i'm full recruit geared it doesn't seem too make much difference i'm still almost always on top of scoreboard in healing or damage and objectives and it's not because the class is op, this happened on my sage.

 

If i care about the changes in expertise in recruit gear?

I don't really care, people that suck will always suck no matter what gear they have and people that are good will always shine no matter what gear they have. As i once have seen a sentinel who had almost full wh gear and he still managed to do 30k damage in a civil war and he wasn't defending, he was always on the turret we were attacking (i remeber healing him all the time).

 

Where did you hear that BW were nerfing sages?

They do need a small buff to their burst damage to be on pair with other dps classes, not counting with rage/focus spec. They need to be really stupid to nerf sages again but i wouldn't be surprised if they did, as we've seen they always seem to do the wrong choices in class balancing.

I agree with everything.

I bought Recruit gear on my Sorc and I wear it often when I PvP, I have full WH gear min/maxed.

Recruit does matter though; just for fun, I respecced my usually tank Juggernaut, got him the Recruit set and entered a warzone as Vengeance.

Let's just say it was a considerably different experience compared to playing my Vigilance Guardian. Healers didn't even have time to heal me after a Charge, I was melted so quickly Also, I hit like a wet noodle.

My healing Sorc was effective enough from day one though (and I could do some great numbers when respecced to Madness, not that I seemed to actually kill anyone). Any problems I had were L2P issues. So yeah. Not quite sure what my point is here.

Agreed. Pre-50 PvP was about your skill at PvP and 50 PvP was all about the gear. It would be nice to re-introduce skill to level 50 PvP. I know it would make me far more likely to PvP at that level (and yes, I'm a founder too).

that made me giggle so hard, I spilled my coffee and had to make some excuse to my boss for laughter..

pre 50 pvp was never about skill. 10-49 brackets is leveling ground filled with frustration, tears, and stupidity combined with some easy kills for those who claim to be skilled.

Recruit does matter though; just for fun, I respecced my usually tank Juggernaut, got him the Recruit set and entered a warzone as Vengeance.

 

Let's just say it was a considerably different experience compared to playing my Vigilance Guardian. Healers didn't even have time to heal me after a Charge, I was melted so quickly Also, I hit like a wet noodle.

 

My healing Sorc was effective enough from day one though (and I could do some great numbers when respecced to Madness, not that I seemed to actually kill anyone). Any problems I had were L2P issues. So yeah. Not quite sure what my point is here.

Point is that when you do 50% less damage, have 60% HP, take 30% more damage its hard not to notice.

Many people refer that against bads it doesnt matter that much. But wth does that matter?

If your only defence is "well you at least dont suck that much against bads". Yeah, well, even if you are skilled gear noob it isnt really anything to look forward to.

And, of course, some classes/specs are much more gear dependant than others and in some classes you will suck with recruit gear no matter what (well, with some classes you will suck no matter what )

Thats why they need to intrduce player ratings and matchmaking with ratings, not gear.

In any competitve game i participated matchmaking was made based on ratings, and i played against evenly skilled (+geared in this case) opponents. Never ever was the goal of matchmaking to pit me, with high rating, with bunch of people with low rating because its clear NPE for both sides.

that made me giggle so hard, I spilled my coffee and had to make some excuse to my boss for laughter..

 

pre 50 pvp was never about skill. 10-49 brackets is leveling ground filled with frustration, tears, and stupidity combined with some easy kills for those who claim to be skilled.

Lmao! I enjoy your honesty sir.

God, OP are you for real?

PvP is best when it is fair. Therefore giving people in recruit gear a little something is solely and ONLY positive.

As someone said in another thread,

What you will see is a bunch horribad kids, who though the gear gap was fine, and now that the game is more fair they'll finally realize they need the gear gap.

ITT- people saying they're skilled yet also saying that having 5k more health and doing 20% more damage doesn't make a difference in pvp.

A good player in recruit gear is much more useful than a bad player in wh gear, that was my point.

Between players with the same skill the gear does matter, but a warzone is never about 2 players.

YES to basically getting rid of expertise. It would bring skill back into the game and make it to where the PVP game has a ton more players to compete with. Also, your gear would still matter due to the other stats. This will only make PVP better, IMO. It would enable everyone to participate instead of just the hard core PVPer's who don't midn the long gear grind.

Getting rid of expertise makes PvEers into PvPers.

Absolutely not. PvP for your gear. They made war hero a 10-14 day grind to get now. Get out of your wussy operations and come join the actual war sometime.

Getting rid of expertise makes PvEers into PvPers.

 

Absolutely not. PvP for your gear. They made war hero a 10-14 day grind to get now. Get out of your wussy operations and come join the actual war sometime.

i disagree. most pvers that i know rarely ever que up for regular and only once in a blue moon for ranked. I dont mind that they are doing this. making expertise equal is already making the games more competitive in regular wzs. besides that, have you ever played with a pve player? they go into pvp with the mindset that it is pve. as in they go in with an inflexible plan. any group who has a decent amount of experience in pvp will be able to dominate because they understand you need to be flexible to win in pvp

I also think this is great for ranked. more teams will be fielded (which is needed) and full/optomized EWH is still a good enough carrot to go after.

lastly, i dont see this isnt going to stop people who enjoy pvp from going f2p. it costs $10 a month for unlimited pvp on 1 (ONE) toon. The gear is also insanely expensive if you are a f2p/preffered player. Casual pvper (people that only pvp and only do it for a few hours a week) probably werent subbing anyway so no issue there

edit: since some crazy people think is is important, closed beta and sub since day 1 (minus a 1month hiatus)

You can disagree if you want. It's not going to happen - ever.

I don't want to be forced to PvE for my PvP gear. It's NOW remarkably easy to get a competent set of expertise gear. Is augmenting it expensive? yes. If you are serious about PvPing, then you do it.

If I were serious about joining an operation, I wouldn't roll into it with my war hero gear. Why should it be any different for you? Because you're lazy and self-entitled?

Can't really get rid of expertise peeps... it's there for a reason.

What they need to "stop" doing is adding more grinds for better gear stats and also stop blatantly switching stat allocations on the proceeding tier to force further "grinds". If you are going to keep the trade-in requirement, at least have the same stats that are the previous tier has. pfft ricockulous...

When they feel the need to give out better gear in PvE, simply change the multiplier on the expertise formula so the percentages are higher for a given amount of EXP points. All tiers stay in line, but raiders will not be able to mop the floor with anyone.