Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

PvP Jugg


KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
07.21.2018 , 12:17 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Crazyknight View Post
So between Vigilance and Defense which one is doing better on PVP and brings more to the team? I used to love tanking but a while back I changed to Vigilance because back then it was performing very well and killing a lot of stuff and I hate being the only one focusing targets while the team doesnt know what to do so I changed to dps.Thing is I havent been in the game for about a year and a half or a bit more and just subbed today again. Played some as Vigilance in pvp but didnt do much against a bunch of sorcs and healers. Just want to know how pvp is today and where I need to go from here with my Guardian.
Obligatory play the role you prefer message.

As a tank main myself, i would say a well played tank can be more game changing than vigi. And guardian tanks are certainly in a better place than dps guardians right now.

A class who functiona as the least mobile melee class, with emphasis on dot spreading for multiple target pressure is pretty hindered by no anti-focus if you know what i mean.

Guardian tanks have good synergy with sage healers in particular (guardian leap + sage pull), and were the least affected by the tank nerfs. Basically guardian tanks sre in a good spot, vigi is in a meh spot, and focus is completely outclassed by concentration sent (seriously, if you can play a focus guardian... you can play a concentration sent, do more damage, have actual tools for dealing with focus, better mobility, and the only downside is self heal).

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.21.2018 , 12:40 PM | #12
While I agree that Fury mara's are in a lot better place than Rage juggs I wouldn't go as far as to say that Fury completely outclasses Rage. Rage is actually quite mobile, between Enrage being used every ~18 seconds (rootbreak+ 6 seconds of 50% movement speed increase), a rootbreak on intercede and a rootbreak on Mad Dash, Rage juggs can stick to targets quite effectively. You also bring taunts to the table, which can be very helpful, especially if you have a healer on your team, since most of the focus will probably go their way, allowing you to get some of that sweet sweet protection.

So sure, Fury is better than Rage. But if you want to play Jugg dps in PvP, don't immediately discount Rage. If you want to actually burst down targets, you're certainly better of going Rage than going Vengeance.

MackPol's Avatar


MackPol
07.31.2018 , 08:14 AM | #13
All 3 specs are awesome. Rage is not outclassed. It has worse dcds and no stun immunity but damage is savage and burst is arguably highest of all. Furious strike is on short cooldown, you have good mobility to stay on target and with ED scaled correctly recently you can fare quite well.
Vigi is great with high Aoe and single target dmg and some stun immunity, also better defense then Rage.

I would try all and choose a fav!

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
07.31.2018 , 09:00 AM | #14
Focus guardians have good burst... so does a concentration sentinel, who also has infinitely better mobility, arguably better better survivability assuming both have a healer, and a legitimate anti-focus.

FD is not even close to an anti-focus, as it is in fact far LESS effective with focus. Vs 1 person tunneling you, FD is a powerful tool, provided the opponent is stupid enough to keep hitting you through it (in this case, its usually more than a heal to full - the solution is simple, stun, cc, or even just kite until it wears off). No guardian dps gets the mileage out of FD a tank does. Bursting a dps guardian in 90s (or 2 min without the utility) is not difficult for competent dps, I've been focused from full as dps (in both specs) through FD even with a healer post-rescale multiple times.

"Outclassed" is not synonymous with "never play" - if focus is your spec, by all means keep at it. Ive been a vigi guardian since i started on dps guardians, but i am competent in all guardian specs and a tank main. By "outclassed" i mean simply practically anything a focus guardian can do... a concentration sentinel can do better. But skill at a class or spec will always come before switching around to whatever is supposedly good. The difference is not that huge. (That said, if you can play focus, you can probably play concenteation... and go run literal circles around focus guardians)

What a sentinel cant do as well is aoe pressure with enough single target burst to kill something. Vigi does that, with probably the easiest dot spread in the game, and a immunity on leap. Watchman does not have any semblance of burst - vigi does, and has an easier dot spread to boot. Couple this with the low mobility, and vigi guardian is set up to be a very respectable pressure dps... with one massive flaw: no anti focus.

CaptRogue's Avatar


CaptRogue
07.31.2018 , 02:34 PM | #15
SO I was running Vengeance/Vigilance on my toons but was told to try Rage.
I switched, did some solo, one match w a good healer did 1mil dps in one round. Way better than Vengeance, but since then, it's not seemed all that much better than vengeance.

Vigilance Guardian Stats:
Utility Points:
Second Wind, Trailblazer
Unremitting, Guardianship
Through Peace, Preparation
Unyielding Justice, Daunting Presence

Stats:
Mastery 7447
Power 4474
Crit 2143 (45.39% with 72.80 multiplier)
Alacrity 757 (7.63%)
Accuracy 768 (110.32%) (running accuracy stim for PvE stuff)
Mastery Crystals x2

Almost completely 240 augmented also.

Jugg Rage Build:
Utilities:
Payback, Overwhelm
Crushing Fist, Unstoppable, Unshackling Rage
Through Power
Thrown Gauntlet, Intimidating Presence

Stats:
Mastery 7593
Power 4509
Crit 1582 (42.21% with 84.49% multiplier)
Alacrity 1219 (11.29%)
Accuracy 627 (108.86%) (Running Mastery stim for PvP.)
Mastery Crystals x2

Almost completely 240 augmented excluding earpiece & implants.

Is there anything I should change to get better dps in ranked/granked matches? Or just PvP in general?
In PvE my Vigi/Veng build was pulling decent numbers.
Interested in 7 FREE days added to your account, plus a FREE Server Transfer & a CM box of unlocks? Follow this LINK!!

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
08.01.2018 , 08:59 AM | #16
Rage is all about burst. Run ~750 alacrity, drop most of that accuracy and stack more crit. 2k crit is nice. Basically, your Vengeance build is is good for Rage... minus all that accuracy.

Vengeance outshines Rage in PvE. But I prefer the 1860 alacrity threshold for 1.3s gcd.

Personally, I don't like Vengeance as much in PvP because intelligent players move away right before the obvious dot spread.
Beruhl / Zenovia / Lobotomy / Warpunk
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
I believe he's quoting a frequent contributor to these forums. His name is Strawman.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
Thanks Rion Starbrah.

CaptRogue's Avatar


CaptRogue
08.01.2018 , 09:24 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Rage is all about burst. Run ~750 alacrity, drop most of that accuracy and stack more crit. 2k crit is nice. Basically, your Vengeance build is is good for Rage... minus all that accuracy.

Vengeance outshines Rage in PvE. But I prefer the 1860 alacrity threshold for 1.3s gcd.

Personally, I don't like Vengeance as much in PvP because intelligent players move away right before the obvious dot spread.
Well since they're mirror builds excluding the left side, I'm honestly not sure why the stats are that different on my toons. lol But that is some major difference.. Hmm I will look into that.

Is there a priority pattern for Rage?
I usually use my Vengeance pattern for opening in PvP. But I'm not sure how well that works.
Interested in 7 FREE days added to your account, plus a FREE Server Transfer & a CM box of unlocks? Follow this LINK!!

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
08.01.2018 , 10:16 AM | #18
Basically, never use saber throw as your opener. I see a lot of people do this.

What to know:
  • Enrage and Force Crush proc your Raging Burst to deal 15% more damage and cost no rage.
  • Force Charge and Obliterate proc an autocrit on your Raging Burst.
  • So always use Force Charge OR Obliterate and Enrage OR Force Crush before you use Raging Burst.
  • Obliterate makes your Force Scream deal 5% more damage and generate 1 rage instead of costing rage.
  • Raging Burst makes you deal 5% more damage for 6s, so try to use Furious Strike within that window.
  • Furious Strike applies a debuff to the target that makes them take 5% more damage from melee attacks.
  • Force Crush makes your next Obliterate or Furious Strike cost no Rage.

It's hard to have a rotation for pvp, but generally this priority system/opener:
Force Charge, then Enrage + Raging Burst, then Furious Strike, then Ravage, then Force Scream, then Sunder.[/B]

From there: Obliterate, then Force Crush, Raging Burst, Furious Strike, Ravage, Force Scream, Sunder.

Add in Vicious Throw if it's available at 30% enemy health.

Because you build rage when you take damage, you may not actually need to use Sunder very often in PvP, but it is nice to use sometimes to apply the armor debuff to your target.
Beruhl / Zenovia / Lobotomy / Warpunk
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
I believe he's quoting a frequent contributor to these forums. His name is Strawman.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
Thanks Rion Starbrah.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
08.05.2018 , 05:18 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by RiChess View Post
I really enjoy veng. With the right utility build you can be an extreme annoyance to healers, and it has great DPS.
yeah and breaks trinity and makes pure DPS spec's moot. If your going for DPS man up and accept your suppose to be a glass cannon!

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
08.06.2018 , 12:31 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazz_Devlin View Post
yeah and breaks trinity and makes pure DPS spec's moot. If your going for DPS man up and accept your suppose to be a glass cannon!
Opers offheal, mandos offheal, dps sorcs offheal - is there anyone calling a dps sorc op? Even freaking snipers have small self heals now, vg has a self heal that sucks, shadows even have a slight selfheal i think (just verified, yes battle readiness). Thats 7/8 classes with some form of self heal. Keep in mind all self heals cannot be equal because each spec also has other DCDs. As a shadow (along with operstive) you have the most effective antifocus/disengage in the game.

All dps specs of tank capable classes can use guard.

Guardian dps is the least mobile melee class with no anti-focus tool. As i have explained to you so many times i don't bother to count any more, FD is not an anti-focus, and is deceeasingly less effective unded focus. This js in direct contrast to mercs, who combine reflect and FD into one button, and their reflect is better (it reflects more damage types, or i think it does).

Heres a shocker: if you're trying to 1v1 a guardian, watch his buffs. If he has FD active, use a nondamaging CC (lift, mez, etc) until it is down and he wastes all the stacks. Alternately just kite him, because he is probably slower than you.

Further edit: anyone thinking pure dps specs are moot is dumb. Snipers have several decent options to pvp with (I've seen marksmen and engineering) and fury maras are still quite good (and mara is the one class with no self heal, huh)