But why all the complaining in this thread then, if there's much to be made buying and reselling? It would seem that despite whatever profits can be made from buying and reselling that it's not nearly the same profit; and, considering that buying and relisting wouldn't appear to be all that much work either, there must be some other issues that make it a further nuisance.

 

In the end it comes down to that in some markets people value their time far too highly or are being very inefficient about how to get materials. For a great many of crafted things I could run missions while I'm running heroics. That's two birds with one stone. Why I should feel the need to charge many times what it costs me then to make the product I don't know.

 

I have no idea what markets people here are in. Some markets seem fair. But I'm left wondering if all the complaining here isn't just a justification for greed.

I believe Aeneas_Falco overstated the case for buying and relisting. Buying and relisting only works in a handful of cases:

#1 - the original seller has posted the item in question below what it costs to craft said item. If you know it costs you 20k to make a given item and someone posts it for 19k, you should buy it and relist it. But if someone posts it at 25k, is it worth buying it still? My policy is that so long as a listing is profitable I will not buy and relist. Either someone will get a great deal on that item or someone else will buy it and relist.

But there is a caveat to the above:

#2 - the "relister" needs to know (beyond doubt) that the item in question will sell for significantly more than what the original seller posted at. The key phrase is "will sell for significantly more". It is rarely worth buying to relist to only make a relative handful of credits as a result. If as in the example above, someone posts a 20k item for 25k but the more "normal" current value is on the low side - only 50k - is it worth buying and relisting?

#3 - (only applies to CM items) the relister is planning to hold onto the item in question until such a time when the item is on the embargoed list and it therefore not as readily available. Again, #2 applies. The relister needs to know that given sufficient time, there is enough demand for the item to drive the price up when it is no longer available

#4 - a relister needs to be realistic. an item might be listed at 300k and someone posts at 100k. But the question is: "Is that item really worth 300k to someone?" Will it sell quickly for that much more?

#5 - the number of low valued listings plays a part. If someone floods the market with 20 of something at a "low price" chances are if you buy them up they will only post more and you'll be stuck with stock you cannot profit from.

Buying and relisting is not as easy as Aeneas_Falco made it out to be.

I believe Aeneas_Falco overstated the case for buying and relisting. Buying and relisting only works in a handful of cases:

 

#1 - the original seller has posted the item in question below what it costs to craft said item. If you know it costs you 20k to make a given item and someone posts it for 19k, you should buy it and relist it. But if someone posts it at 25k, is it worth buying it still? My policy is that so long as a listing is profitable I will not buy and relist. Either someone will get a great deal on that item or someone else will buy it and relist.

 

But there is a caveat to the above:

 

#2 - the "relister" needs to know (beyond doubt) that the item in question will sell for significantly more than what the original seller posted at. The key phrase is "will sell for significantly more". It is rarely worth buying to relist to only make a relative handful of credits as a result. If as in the example above, someone posts a 20k item for 25k but the more "normal" current value is on the low side - only 50k - is it worth buying and relisting?

 

#3 - (only applies to CM items) the relister is planning to hold onto the item in question until such a time when the item is on the embargoed list and it therefore not as readily available. Again, #2 applies. The relister needs to know that given sufficient time, there is enough demand for the item to drive the price up when it is no longer available

 

#4 - a relister needs to be realistic. an item might be listed at 300k and someone posts at 100k. But the question is: "Is that item really worth 300k to someone?" Will it sell quickly for that much more?

 

#5 - the number of low valued listings plays a part. If someone floods the market with 20 of something at a "low price" chances are if you buy them up they will only post more and you'll be stuck with stock you cannot profit from.

 

Buying and relisting is not as easy as Aeneas_Falco made it out to be.

I don't buy and relist everything that is sold before the going rate and certainly wasn't trying to imply that it was always profitable to do so. I was using a very specific example of an actual crafted item I used to buy for 20,000 and relist for 100,000 (that crafter has since moved on and I've returned to crafting that item instead of relisting) and nearly always made a profit on it. I knew from previously crafting that item myself that it would sell at 100,000 and in most cases on the day it was listed.

If that seller was listing at 85,000 instead for example, I wouldn't have bought and relisted. The amount of credits made from that wouldn't made it worthwhile, particularly when there is always a risk whether crafting or relisting that any item you listed won't sell. Even when the demand for that item and your price range makes that risk low it's not worth taking for such little profit.

I'll tell you what my pvp mats are worth to me, and I'll tell you why because its a good reason.

 

I enjoy solo ranked, therefore I get paid for what I enjoy doing.

 

now for some, 236 augs (1% dps increase in 14 augs) is worth buying.

 

most of us have about 30-40 alts. 14 augs for 30-40 alts is not worth 3m a piece. I would gladly price them at 250k which is roughly 1-2 planets of herocis each, because that is all they are worth. you are supplying a 1% per 14 dps increase. you are not supplying a 10% dps inc per aug. its not worth a full day of heroics for .14% a pop. this game was made for alts, it was made for experimentation and ease of play. not grinding all day long for a .14% dps inc on your main

With the case of the new augments the price is dictated by the price of the crafting materials used to make them, in particular the Charged Matter Transubstantiators. In fact considering the price of CMTs the new augments are actually a deal for the buyer (and a bad idea to craft for profit if you aren't obtaining your mats through activities like Ranked) since the augments are often priced about even or under the cost of the crafting mats. Personally I never craft 236 augments for profit for that reason. I'll only sell augments if I'm crafting for my own use and have extras on hand thanks to critical hits. If profit is the goal often it's better to just sell the CMTs. You'll not infrequently get more for 2 CMTs than you will selling an augment they're crafted from.

I do agree that the cost of the augments is high considering the relatively modest stat gains, but min/maxers are willing to pay it, and the high cost of the materials (and the augments in turn) is dictated by their rarity. While people who Ranked PVP often may have them in abundance, that is a very small slice of the entire player base. The drop rate in GC is low enough that overall it can be considered a very rare mat.

Since I'm fully in favor of everyone who is subscribed having easy access to BiS gear my preference would be for Bioware to increase the availability of CMTs. Bioware has made a number of decisions as of late that has discouraged playing alts and the cost of the newest augments is a part of that. I don't know what greater availability of CMTs should look like...maybe awarded for GSF weeklies, Conquest, one dropping at the final boss off an Operation, ect. In any case there being more CMTs available would also lead to more competition on the GTN and prices would come way down, just as they have for Void Matter Catalysts, and in turn the price of augments would fall.

Tl;dr: The current price of 236 augments is more than fair, and while they are very expensive, the current price range is the end result of the rarity of CMTs. 236 augment price ranges are high because of Bioware, not crafter greed.

my preference would be for Bioware to increase the availability of CMTs. Bioware has made a number of decisions as of late that has discouraged playing alts and the cost of the newest augments is a part of that. I don't know what greater availability of CMTs should look like...maybe awarded for GSF weeklies, Conquest, one dropping at the final boss off an Operation, ect.

I am in full support of this. not only will it filter out people who have no business in solo ranked, and unearned Group Ranked rating (farming peopple who /stuck in spawn for mats) but it will balance out the prices to a managable and fair level for what you get

With the case of the new augments the price is dictated by the price of the crafting materials used to make them, in particular the Charged Matter Transubstantiators. In fact considering the price of CMTs the new augments are actually a deal for the buyer (and a bad idea to craft for profit if you aren't obtaining your mats through activities like Ranked) since the augments are often priced about even or under the cost of the crafting mats. Personally I never craft 236 augments for profit for that reason. I'll only sell augments if I'm crafting for my own use and have extras on hand thanks to critical hits. If profit is the goal often it's better to just sell the CMTs. You'll not infrequently get more for 2 CMTs than you will selling an augment they're crafted from.

You need to think about crits when evaluating the profitability of crafting v. just selling mats, especially at the price points for the new augments.

Has anyone else noticed that the prices for many crafed items have plummeted to the point where crafting them for profit is no longer worthwhile? Or is this limited to Star Forge?

 

Some of it of course is due to increased competition due to the merge, but not all of it. Even where there is no one to undercut I see sellers listing items for prices sometimes 1/4 or 1/5 of what I used to earn from them daily. Sometimes they're even listed at break even or less with mat prices.

 

I still do well with crafting because I've shifted to crafting other things that aren't posted on the GTN as often. I also buy and relist and make credits off of them. I'm still left wondering however why some sellers bother with these dirt cheap listings.

That's unpossible - why, I was told on another thread that folks are making hundreds of millions of credits by crafting just a few hours a week!

You must be mistaken.

Thread title :

Stupidly Low Prices on the GTN

Player psychology :

"We are not wanting enough money for our items. No matter what it is. These guys tell us that we have to have HIGHER prices ! Higher and higher !

And, by the way, who wants to be stupid ?"

Thank you by putting more inflation into "the system" by making people believe with this thread title that charging low prices is stupid in general - and not exclusive to crafted items.

And thank you for telling everyone to be stupid if he or she is charging low prices even for the lowest Ord Mantell item.

That's unpossible - why, I was told on another thread that folks are making hundreds of millions of credits by crafting just a few hours a week!

 

You must be mistaken.

Let me repost something I said earlier in this very thread:

"My daily credit goal is also relatively modest. 2-3 million per day is easily obtainable and doesn't require a lot of time investment. I also sometimes make quite a bit more than that if I devote more time to it or sell augments or 246 hilts or barrels."

I'm not hurting for credits particularly since I've now been crafting for years with that relatively modest daily credit goal, and I can afford to buy any item currently listed on the GTN. I was voicing a complaint at something that was a minor inconvenience for me (causing me to shift what I was selling) for what I perceived as little benefit for the other seller(s), not voicing a complaint about my daily income

People selling crafted items for far less than their actual worth ultimately does not affect my daily income, because those sellers aren't competing with me for every thing that I sell, and I have multiple crafters. I can always switch what I'm crafting to weather it. Where it inconveniences me isn't in income, it is in time investment. Sometimes the switch has to be accompanied by resource gathering or more time spent surfing the GTN to gauge the market for whatever I'm switching to.

Player psychology :

 

"We are not wanting enough money for our items. No matter what it is. These guys tell us that we have to have HIGHER prices ! Higher and higher !

 

And, by the way, who wants to be stupid ?"

 

Thank you by putting more inflation into "the system" by making people believe with this thread title that charging low prices is stupid in general - and not exclusive to crafted items.

 

And thank you for telling everyone to be stupid if he or she is charging low prices even for the lowest Ord Mantell item.

The items I sell aren't at ridiculous prices. They are sold at rates that the majority of the time, result in a sale on the day that they are listed. Obviously these are considered fair prices, or I wouldn't be getting sales and would spend a lot of time relisting. Some of the items I sell are already at a substantial discount to from what other sellers list for (because my goal is a sale on the listed day for most items) while still being very profitable for me.

I will agree that I probably shouldn't have used the word stupid in the title. Maybe "bafflingly low prices" would have been a better way to phrase it. If a player is selling an item that for example can earn 50,000 credits on the day it is listed, for 10,000 credits (less than you earn completing a single quest), I have to wonder why they bother with that item? It just seems like a waste of their time at that point. Another issue that I don't believe I touched on is that these sellers will often list multiples far exceeding the actual demand for that item, regardless of prices. They may list 10 of that item all at 10,000, sell 4, and end up relisting 6 for example. (I've experimented with a few items to see if they were making more than me on those items by sheer volume...and they're not) Again, that just seems like a waste of time for me. Instead of crafting so many of one item that your own supply exceeds demand, it would be better to have some of your companions craft something else.

I'm not listing trash Ord Mantell drops for ridiculous prices. I've also by the way, given away plenty highly desired Cartel Market items (Satele Set, Tythonian Force Master Lightsaber, one of the Revan sets, ect) for FREE to players I knew would use it. I've also joined new guilds with alts just to donate all the decos I've purchased for FREE, to help people get started with their guild SHs or ships. I've been very generous with the credits I've earned and am not some Scrooge pinching his imaginary pennies.