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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones


Monoth

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Since this is THE MOST important thread in this section as it effects PVP as it currently is I'm going to continue to contribute.

 

 

This game should have a separate group and solo queue.

 

1. Group PVP - Consisting of Groups of 2 or more

 

2. Solo PVP - Individual players only

 

 

 

The trolls on this thread are AFRAID this Rational FIX would ever occur as it would be the end of them collecting medals with their buddies in mostly non-ranked PVP. The truly messed up thing is that most of these kids are already MAX'ed out with WH and Augs. The only thing they are doing is preventing newcomers to lvl 50 pvp from ever attaining WH gear. But they know they are doing that. ;)

 

I would honestly be Ok with this. I'd be fine with solo queuing, as long as I know that the other team has just as much of a chance at getting baddies, and not a 4 man premade. In it's current state, I refuse to solo queue. I at least need to have a healer with me, preferably also a tank and another excellent dps. It's especially demoralizing when you have people from some ***** talking 4 man premade saying things to you in /say like "guess you don't matter" and "wow you must suck" after their fully geared 4 man part of their ranked group rolls over your pug team that's in recruit.. with you being the only WH person. It doesn't matter that my rated team stomps theirs... because none of them are on at the moment to queue with me. It's even more fun being made the objective of a PvP match because certain republic guilds are butthurt that they get owned all day by our premades. So yeah, if I could avoid this with solo queue, I probably would PvP more and solo queue again.

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I find it funny how people say they get matched up against premades all day every day, I solo queue only and find that I get matched up against a premade group maybe 25% of the time or less.

 

Quit exaggerating the numbers.

 

Well that and everyone who is pugging is in recruit gear and the team they are facing are always double premades in fully augmented min/maxed wh gear.

 

I honestly pug for a few hours and then when my guildies start getting on usually late then I will group up with them.

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I play GW2, as well as SWTOR, and have in the past played now countless other MMOs. While it has many flaws, and honestly which games don't, probably the best thing GW2 does for PVP is make the unranked PVP completely randomized.

 

There are NO premades stomping people who are just queuing up for FUN.

 

It honestly continues to amuse me the ammount of justification people use to prevent devs from realising that this is a needed change. It hurts nobody, despite what people might have you think, to randomize the queues completely.. I've personally had just as much fun killing my friends, as teaming up with them and killing other players.

 

Ranked PVP already exists, it should be the only place premades exist. Unranked PVP should be a place for people who want to enjoy themselves without having to justify their gameplay style to wannabe elitist *****s who are telling them they suck. Shame on you, games a game.. what happened to having fun.

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Or you should get 4 more friends and go do ranked. How about that? I bet you don't like me telling you how to play the game but what goes around comes around ;).

Here's the thing. I do. So, please, try again.

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LOL Grats to you friend. Hope you are having fun. Now try to explain why should one be forced to do that in order to have fun. No quarell with pps that run in premades. To each his own but why people that enjoy that shouldn't be matched against people of similar taste and valor? Wouldn't that be the right path to follo? I mean how can a new commer enjoy the pvp when they are put against teams of well geared veterans? If we have gear progression shouldn't be appropriate to have some sort of skill progression? And, as somebody said above, this is a game people play for fun so that should be the paramount concern for the devs. Most people will leave if they dont have fun and between the gear grind and fighting uphilll battles fun eludes the newer players and the casuals. That is IMHO biggest flaw SWTOR PVP has at this moment.
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PvE people has to find 16 people to do the endgame content so can you. So exactly what is the problem? Is there a magical 8 friend limit in MMOs? Don't come here claiming the queue is bugged for your rwz trading farm. If it certainly was bugged then you should /bug it. I've not seen any other post on this PvP forum claiming the RWZ queue doesn't work.

 

No, PvE people can choose 8 or 16. They also have a week long lock out of each raid, and each raid produces 1 or more -complete- pieces of gear. Even if by extreme bad luck it's not a piece of gear, it's a schematic, mount, armoring, rare crafting mat, rare shell, etc... sure there are downsides (like repairs), but you can not compare PvE to PvP. Doesn't work.

 

If the excuse is we should have to wait for 16 people to be online, in ranked, and hope it pops and isn't bugged for whatever reason to do "end game content" (and have fun mind you, since you're all big on that word) then make damn sure people in this "solo/casual" bracket get -nothing.- No WH for you till you man up, find 7-15 other people to get into the real end game pvp content

 

How laughable,that you chide me for "not having more than 8" when clearly the "solo" queuer's can't manage 3, or even 1. You can't tell someone else to do more work when you are unwilling to do even a little?

 

Your comment about winning trading is cute... like a little kid tantrum cute. So if we form 8 and queue and nothing pops, "what's the matter, can't find 8 -more friends?-" but if we do form 16 to get a ranked going... now we're losers who trade wins? *rolls eyes.*

 

What makes you think I didn't /bug it? I don't post bugs on this forum, dev's barely read them. In-game tickets.

 

This is offtopic and I don't see how it connects with playing a game on your free time. If I wanted to play competitive professional sports I would not chose a video game with focus on light-sabers. I also don't live on the American continent so I can't tell why USA has been in a moral and economical decline for at least the past 30 years. Other countries' internal politics doesn't interest me. Instead of complaining how about you put in some effort to fix the current situation in your country? Playing a commercial MMO and preaching on its game forum hardly counts as doing something to fix it. If you don't like the situation and don't see a way out you can always move to another country with similar views as your own. I did that for a few years for work and it was a good decision.

 

It is a bit off the general topic, but it's very much the underlying problem. Game or not, more and more people are choosing the quick "feel good" easy mode, and not striving. Strive whether at work or in play, and new levels are unlocked. Do you think organized play isn't fun? Do you know the joy of a well coordinated assault? Of moving as one with your team? Victory tasting so sweet when you know it was from a perfect play? That every healer healed to their full potential, guarded by their allies, aided by thier fellow healer? How they laughed happily for the dps they kept alive, whom fought tooth and nail for the node, the door, the goal?

 

Fun and Easy are not the always the same.

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No, PvE people can choose 8 or 16. They also have a week long lock out of each raid, and each raid produces 1 or more -complete- pieces of gear. Even if by extreme bad luck it's not a piece of gear, it's a schematic, mount, armoring, rare crafting mat, rare shell, etc... sure there are downsides (like repairs), but you can not compare PvE to PvP. Doesn't work.

Both require team work and coordination which means making a lot of friends. If someone isn't onlie for your raid you need replacements.

If the excuse is we should have to wait for 16 people to be online, in ranked, and hope it pops and isn't bugged for whatever reason to do "end game content" (and have fun mind you, since you're all big on that word) then make damn sure people in this "solo/casual" bracket get -nothing.- No WH for you till you man up, find 7-15 other people to get into the real end game pvp content

 

How laughable,that you chide me for "not having more than 8" when clearly the "solo" queuer's can't manage 3, or even 1. You can't tell someone else to do more work when you are unwilling to do even a little?

 

Your comment about winning trading is cute... like a little kid tantrum cute. So if we form 8 and queue and nothing pops, "what's the matter, can't find 8 -more friends?-" but if we do form 16 to get a ranked going... now we're losers who trade wins? *rolls eyes.*

I have no problem with having a casual PvP bracket with no rewards greater than BM (as long better geared people aren't allowed to queue). It seems you have a problem with not having easy cannon fodder to kill when you get carried by your friends to grind out WH on your alts. Why is your amount of friends just right and enough work put in? Who decided that your 4-man team is just right?

Your comment about winning trading is cute... like a little kid tantrum cute. So if we form 8 and queue and nothing pops, "what's the matter, can't find 8 -more friends?-" but if we do form 16 to get a ranked going... now we're losers who trade wins? *rolls eyes.*

Judging from your recent post history you've only tried RWZ once and that was when you set up a trading farm because you otherwise couldn't get enough willing friends to queue with you. So much for competition and better yourseld facing tough opponents.

What makes you think I didn't /bug it? I don't post bugs on this forum, dev's barely read them. In-game tickets.

I've had either personal chat with CS for more details or a message acknowledging my issue that said it's been forwarded to a dev for all my bug reports. Sounds like you are lying or that your server has bad CS.

It is a bit off the general topic, but it's very much the underlying problem. Game or not, more and more people are choosing the quick "feel good" easy mode, and not striving. Strive whether at work or in play, and new levels are unlocked. Do you think organized play isn't fun? Do you know the joy of a well coordinated assault? Of moving as one with your team? Victory tasting so sweet when you know it was from a perfect play? That every healer healed to their full potential, guarded by their allies, aided by thier fellow healer? How they laughed happily for the dps they kept alive, whom fought tooth and nail for the node, the door, the goal?

 

Fun and Easy are not the always the same.

When I want competitive warzones I queue for ranked. When I queue for solo queue I do so because I'm time constrained and no friends online because this is a game after all and not a professional sport I do 24/7. In most solo queue pops there are at least 4-5 solo queuers working as a team focusing on objectives. I enjoy the entire group of ragtags forming as a group bond and working to a common goal. That is fun. A 4-man premade in optimized gear having no business in NWZ usually makes the warzone not fun because people start leaving and just give up. I don't blame them when they have 14-18k hp and are facing opponents that have both superior coordination and 22k+ hp. I can't see how the premade in your example can feel good at all since that's an effortless and easy win. They should feel ashamed of themselves for not facing tougher opposition.

 

Queuing for ranked I wouldn't classify as fun. I classify it as a means of satisfying my competitive spirit. That's two separate things. Besides I usually get my fill of that at my work which I get paid to do.

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The only ones opposing that there is a solo / grouped queue are those hiding in premade teams. They want easy kills, theyr not seeking challange or heroic monents. They just seek to stomp the little guy while getting 1 mill heals.

 

if you say the same thing over and over to yourself. it becomes believable right? like your lies are the actual truth. keep it up kid

Edited by FourTwent
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My Server the Bastion a PVP server the IMPS constantly run Premades into pugs

 

YES it sucks

 

But , I feel it the classes are un-balanced . IMP classes are way OP for PVP

Thier abilities seem to be steered toward it.

 

 

Sorcerers , OPS, Assassins.

 

I mean how many time you see 6 sorcerers on a team , You ever see 6 sages?

 

When the classes get balanced out the populations will even up faction wise and the game more enjoyable

 

RT now on the The BAstion IMP populations are almost 2/1 over the republic

 

This quote from Hall Hood "there are many more Imperial players than Republic, and this has greatly unbalanced the PvP situation."

 

How many servers we got now? and Populations are shrinking!!!

 

As an WH Operartive we used to assemble pre-mades into pugs to farm gear knowlingly

 

I felt sorry for the Republic side and Quit my Operative .

 

 

Its a good game QUit putting you heads in the ground!!

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Join a guild. Make friends.

Premades are done by people farming commendations to gear up, just like you.

 

it's a little disingenuous to suggest that those premades are ppl just trying to gear up, "same as you." my guild stopped doing ranked. we lost some players. the remaining pvpers have no desire to get rolled by the one leet grp that Qs. thus, we reg Q. trust me, sinnerr, banksy, inmortal, blissreiter....they don't need gear and will steamroll a pug. we're caught in a no-man's land of pvp atm.

 

anyway, my only point was that reg pvp is the only realistic option even for optimized players, which is why all the big names show up there, and it's unusual not to be in a partial premade when other guildies are pvping, isn't it?

Edited by foxmob
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Both require team work and coordination which means making a lot of friends. If someone isn't onlie for your raid you need replacements.

 

<.< what does this have to do with anything? PvE and PvP come in different formats. One has week long lock outs, gearing up rates, different times per activity.

 

I have no problem with having a casual PvP bracket with no rewards greater than BM (as long better geared people aren't allowed to queue). It seems you have a problem with not having easy cannon fodder to kill when you get carried by your friends to grind out WH on your alts. Why is your amount of friends just right and enough work put in? Who decided that your 4-man team is just right?

 

<.< so complaints about taking the team out of team play = I want easy kills. No... what I really want is the solo pvp-heroes to rise to the challenge. As for 4 man teams? I think BW made that decision they made maximum queue 4 people normal, 8 ranked.

 

Judging from your recent post history you've only tried RWZ once and that was when you set up a trading farm because you otherwise couldn't get enough willing friends to queue with you. So much for competition and better yourseld facing tough opponents.

 

In this modern age of facebook and twitter, it may surprise you that people don't publish their life's story in a debate. I gave you the most relevant experience... that ranked WZ's aren't reliable at popping, either from server population, population incompetence, or system failure.

 

I've had either personal chat with CS for more details or a message acknowledging my issue that said it's been forwarded to a dev for all my bug reports. Sounds like you are lying or that your server has bad CS.

 

See my above answer. It has been ticketed, same lame *** message about it being passed on that everyone else gets (It's probably a canned, copy and paste answer). If it was an abnormal glitch, won't hear more. If it isn't (like the commando level 5 story being bugged) then we'll all get a response when the patch notes say "Ranked Warzone's not popping properly has been fixed."

 

When I want competitive warzones I queue for ranked. When I queue for solo queue I do so because I'm time constrained and no friends online because this is a game after all and not a professional sport I do 24/7. In most solo queue pops there are at least 4-5 solo queuers working as a team focusing on objectives. I enjoy the entire group of ragtags forming as a group bond and working to a common goal. That is fun. A 4-man premade in optimized gear having no business in NWZ usually makes the warzone not fun because people start leaving and just give up. I don't blame them when they have 14-18k hp and are facing opponents that have both superior coordination and 22k+ hp. I can't see how the premade in your example can feel good at all since that's an effortless and easy win. They should feel ashamed of themselves for not facing tougher opposition.

 

This is like playing scrabble but deciding you don't have to properly spell the word. "Come on people, we're just having a friendly game... why you so serious and won't let me spell Kyropractur on the triple word score? It's not -fair- you know how to spell and I never bothered! I just wanna play scrabble casually!"

 

Once again... cute. We should be ashamed, cause we're all playing well and you all suck.

 

Queuing for ranked I wouldn't classify as fun. I classify it as a means of satisfying my competitive spirit. That's two separate things. Besides I usually get my fill of that at my work which I get paid to do.

 

If the PvP in this game is too competitive (cause forming a team is so hard) perhaps you're playing the wrong game? There are casual pvp games out there.

Edited by Doomsdaycomes
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...

I give up. I'll submit to the almighty war hero that thinks he does the world and his country (saving one country at a time by playing video games) a favor by rolling casuals. It's not every day you see a grown man admitting they enjoy to gang up on and beat people that are far below their skill level and then tell them they should man up. This game is obviously a professional e-sport (especially unranked warzones lol) and I'm bad because I want to meet teams of comparable skill level and composition to slowly better myself and not get totally rolled by the opposition. Is that too much to ask for just because you want to have shorter queue times to roll lesser skilled players? I think the issue with your country is that you think it's ok to kick on people lower in the hierarchy just so you can achieve instant gratification.

 

Just a question. Would you like it if you could queue a 8-man ops for NWZ and if you do how many days do you think PvP in this game will survive if that happens?

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I give up. I'll submit to the almighty war hero that thinks he does the world and his country (saving one country at a time by playing video games) a favor by rolling casuals. It's not every day you see a grown man admitting they enjoy to gang up on and beat people that are far below their skill level and then tell them they should man up. This game is obviously a professional e-sport (especially unranked warzones lol) and I'm bad because I want to meet teams of comparable skill level and composition to slowly better myself and not get totally rolled by the opposition. Is that too much to ask for just because you want to have shorter queue times to roll lesser skilled players? I think the issue with your country is that you think it's ok to kick on people lower in the hierarchy just so you can achieve instant gratification.

 

Just a question. Would you like it if you could queue a 8-man ops for NWZ and if you do how many days do you think PvP in this game will survive if that happens?

 

I played on my BM sniper today, 3 matches.

 

First match I was solo. We ended up against a 4 man premade, and lost East within the first minute. Do you know why we lost East? Because the PuG over there didn't call it. Not before they showed up, not during, not even after he died. Most of my team didn't even notice East being lost until I asked "Why wasn't there a call?"

 

Second Match, I teamed with one other player. -One.- We rolled into a PuG vs. PuG and won by a bare margin. Why did the other team lose? Because the guard I attacked not once, not twice, but three times failed to call for help until he was dead. He was a sorc sacc'ing his health and healing to buff his medals.

 

Third match, still teamed with only -one- other person. Huttball, on a PuG vs. a 4 man Premade. We won, 6 - 0 with 2 minutes left on the clock. Why did we win? Because PuG's were saying things like "Upper ramp" "Get ahead of me!" "I'm at their goal."

 

What is the lesson here? It has nothing to do with ganging up on them "Poor, undergeared casuals with my big mean team of WH-augmented." It has nothing to do with saving a country from it's decline. Pure and simple, the "casual" excuse for why they are losing is complete, utter, rubbish. Refusing to take advantage of all tools and options available to you, and then expecting other's to play by your same rule book, your same code of honor is a scrub mentality.

 

I have some assigned reading for you. First, look up "Playing to Win" by Sirlin. It's a fairly short book, available on the internet for free, that explains the difference between a scrub and a good player. It isn't that the scrub is unskilled... no, they may actually be quite capable. They are however, held back by their own inhibitions. "Playing to Win" by Sirlin.

 

Then pick up a book by Scott Olson Card, titled "Ender's Game." I think after you read it, it will be quite the eye-opener.

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It is unbelievable how some of you are unable or unwilling to understand a simple concept. Unbalanced WZs matches are a bad thing to have in a game, any type of game in RL or in a virtual world. That's why you have leagues of different valor. How much fun any of you would have if you get in a boxing match against Vitali Klitschko ???

 

We must have pre-mades in SWTOR and those need to be able to queue for normal WZs but they must face other pre-mades in order to keep things balanced and fun.

How hard is to understand that? It's not frikkin rocket science!!! :rolleyes:

 

P.S. Stop drawing conclusions from 3 batches of data samples. You are making yourself look bad.

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lol 3 matches and draws conclusions like that. Being the statistics nerd I am I think I just died a little inside....

 

Look this game's pvp is bad for both casuals (majority of mmo subs) and for pvp'rs that want even matches. I know the real reasons you are fighting the idea of premade matching but it really wouldn't be the end of the world for you. There would still be a major gear gap and composition requirements to be met that would allow you to stomp other premades pretty often.

 

Before FTP this game NEEDS cross server q's, premade matching, and mixed faction teams (when needed) at least. I also think it would help if optimization was removed from pvp and instead a new pvp gear tier was added in its place. For ppl that like optimization they could still allow 1 slot or so to be changed around. Its just there shouldn't be as large of a difference between top tier gear and optimized top tier gear as there is now.

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It's simple and how it should be imo:

 

NWZ - only solo. No grouping. Here you learn the basics, your class and get your first gear.

RWZ - 4-man, 8-man groups. No solo(big NO here for undergeared/PvE people). This WZ enter only people who seek greater challenge.

Edited by MelodicSixNine
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Why do even the premade runner care if we casual/solo/pug players want a wz queue of our own?

 

If premade runners are that hardcore they want to make us belive they should be happy to fight against more hardcore ppl - other premade teams. But they dont want that. Odd, isnt it?

 

Or is it they they just want to keep us solo/random teams as easy kills? Maybe the premade runners arent that hardcore after all, since they seek easy kills? Maybe we should remove premade teams, so everyone goes random?

 

I guess the premade runner would be screaming in panic if we removed preamde teams, since it would be obvious that they arent that hardcore if they dont have thier 24/7 heals running over them all time.

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are people just socially awkward or complete wierdos that cant interact with other human beings?I mean...the whole basement nerd stereotype that stays locked at home is old..but it refers to real life!do we now have "social wierdos" that cant interact even online?!

 

tip-counseling......psychiatrist..chose one..U NEED IT.

 

 

 

 

 

how can this thing go on..l

 

 

log in..ask in general about premades...

 

get an invite (usualy doesnt take more then 10 mins asking)

 

BAM! you ar ein a premade!now..unless your awkward and you cant comunicate...or you are mentally chalenged to the point that ou cant pvp properly in a game like swtor you will prbably get kicked,(blame it on yourself not premades..)

 

ALSO...

 

log in...

 

spam general "LF mroe people for normal WZ premade@

 

ill give you 5 mins for a full group

 

BAM! you are in a premade!

 

 

Srsly, this is an online MMO..it REQUIRES interaction, and if you have problems with that you should go see a professional...

 

unless you are bored and passing time people dont generaly prefer to queue solo just because....

 

all the xcuses for "why i like solo better" are just pooor and sad xcuses..nonsense.

 

 

if your a wierdo and socially awkward...then G...T.....F....O...those kind of people give me the creeps and should be banished of the planet..

 

 

(sorry for my english...clearly not my language)

Edited by filipesantana
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