Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Accuracy in PvP


WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
10.25.2018 , 02:49 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Obilam View Post
Hi,

I've returned to the game after a long time out.

I'm confused on accuracy in PvP. Some accounts state that it is required and aim (excuse the pun) 105-110%. Others state that zero is fine.

So.... is it needed in PvP? If not does that mean I'll need two sets of gear? one to farm CXP and the other to battle in?

If it is not required, does this mean that accuracy debuff skills are useless?

Regards

Lee

Not everyone feels the same on this subject. Some people will tell you not to waste any points on it because there are DCDs and other abilites that will effect your accuracy and so putting points in it would be wasteful because there would be times your accuracy stat alotment would count for little or nothing.

Others take the middle approach and say take at least 105% because some classes have more base defense than others [like sorc].

I will add only that, in my opinion and in my experience, if you do a lot of white damage [Carnage/Marksman i.e.] go full accuracy build 110% because with white damage you can miss under even normal conditions and if you have an off hand attack, your off hand attacks automatically suffer from a accuracy penalty. Running a parsing program in a WZ or an Arena will show you just how much you actually miss and it can be frighteningly high at times due normal miss chance, off hand penalties, and ability/DCD effects of the enemy.

I tried it all three ways [ 0 accuracy, 105% accuracy and full 110% accuracy]. After consulting the parses involved to see just how much missing was going on having a pool of samples to draw from under each stat spread, there was no doubt left to my mind that accuracy effects on white damage can be significant.

I'd consider the opinions of others more valid wherein the spec in question was less white damage orientated.

Ld-Siris's Avatar


Ld-Siris
10.25.2018 , 03:02 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
Not everyone feels the same on this subject. Some people will tell you not to waste any points on it because there are DCDs and other abilites that will effect your accuracy and so putting points in it would be wasteful because there would be times your accuracy stat alotment would count for little or nothing.

Others take the middle approach and say take at least 105% because some classes have more base defense than others [like sorc].

I will add only that, in my opinion and in my experience, if you do a lot of white damage [Carnage/Marksman i.e.] go full accuracy build 110% because with white damage you can miss under even normal conditions and if you have an off hand attack, your off hand attacks automatically suffer from a accuracy penalty. Running a parsing program in a WZ or an Arena will show you just how much you actually miss and it can be frighteningly high at times due normal miss chance, off hand penalties, and ability/DCD effects of the enemy.

I tried it all three ways [ 0 accuracy, 105% accuracy and full 110% accuracy]. After consulting the parses involved to see just how much missing was going on having a pool of samples to draw from under each stat spread, there was no doubt left to my mind that accuracy effects on white damage can be significant.

I'd consider the opinions of others more valid wherein the spec in question was less white damage orientated.
What exactly are you parsing against? If itís the war zone dummy I notice a lot more misses then I see against actual players. So Iím not sure what the war zone dummy stats are but I donít think they are an accurate representation of war zone.

Secondly and correctly if Iím wrong (itís been years and years since I looked this up) the only time off hand accuracy comes into play is when you use an ability that triggers a specific off hand attack. And the only one I know about are basic ďautoĒ attack and the marauders ataru strikes. (Again correct me if Iím wrong) so for most dual wield classes that only comes down to maybe 1 or 2 specs. (Man I havenít studied this since 2012)

Though I 100% agree with you and itís up to preference of the player. Iíve always run 105 even back when everyone said donít do it itís a waste. (Yes back then it was 95%)

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
10.25.2018 , 04:20 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Ld-Siris View Post
What exactly are you parsing against? If itís the war zone dummy I notice a lot more misses then I see against actual players. So Iím not sure what the war zone dummy stats are but I donít think they are an accurate representation of war zone.

Secondly and correctly if Iím wrong (itís been years and years since I looked this up) the only time off hand accuracy comes into play is when you use an ability that triggers a specific off hand attack. And the only one I know about are basic ďautoĒ attack and the marauders ataru strikes. (Again correct me if Iím wrong) so for most dual wield classes that only comes down to maybe 1 or 2 specs. (Man I havenít studied this since 2012)

Though I 100% agree with you and itís up to preference of the player. Iíve always run 105 even back when everyone said donít do it itís a waste. (Yes back then it was 95%)

I'ma bit wordy, and Carnage is very near and dear to me so anything that is in a spoiler, is optional more descriptive prose, the main intent is can be gained just reading the base response if you like.

The parsing program will show your miss chances, so it really isn't about what you are parsing against persay, because even if you are fighting the same exact opponent under the same exact conditions your miss chance could be drastically difference. Sometimes you might have an overall miss change percentage of 7% but the next time under the same exact conditions the overall miss chance % might be 13% which obviously accounts for alot is lost damage.

Regarding off hand penaltities, you have to look at each attack type, any attack that states "strikes with both weapons if duel weilding" means the accuracy penalty to the off hand applies. Ravage misses are a notirious example of this. When you saw the break down of ravage in the parsing program, it showed each of the 6 'mini-attacks' that techically ravage entails. And you could see each of the 6 'mini' attacks and you virtually never hit with all 6, and misses of less than two of the 6 would be highly unusual. Assuming you have floating damage enabled, you can see the break down when you use ravage flash 4 or 5 times showing that they are individual attacks that make up ravage and you will see the miss stated in the floaty text, same with Gore, or other normal misses. Gore doesn't say "strikes with both weapons if duel weilding", but it is nonetheless effected by an off-hand miss chance, which is noticable, as mentioned.

Spoiler


Parsec had a better break down system that made references the particulars easier, Star Parse is a bit more laborious in that regard. It's made a lot easier if you upload the parse to Parsley than reference the log and other options from the parsley log directly on the website, as the parse you upload will give you a web addy that you can than get all the more indepth information from easier.

Spoiler


Even only taking ataru form attacks into account, that is in and of itself enough reason to want 110% accuracy and the reason why it is so vital to make sure you never go more than 6 seconds without using massacre as massacre increases the chance of procing an ataru form attack by an additional 30%. So you want to keep that buff always in effect because without it you are losing 'free' damage so to speak. Which is effected by off-hand miss chance.
Spoiler

Parsing programs measure the same things the same way no matter what type of content you are doing, whether PVP or PVE, whether a Warzone or a Flashpoint, it's information gathering is equally effective and telling. Most PVPers were never in the habit of running parsing programs, that's mostly something raiders do, but, from my raider days I was already familiar with how parsing programs worked and the value of the statistics they gather both in general and for personal growth and performance.

Even if you just checked it out only on a parsing dummy that would still show you how the ataru form breakdowns playout and just how significant they can be overall. The 30% ataru form attack buff makes the likelyhood of procing ataru form attacks much greater as I'm sure you know, lower accuracy will detract from the amount of hits you get from that increased chance of procing them.

Spoiler


Admittedly, I am a very unusual PVPer in my thoughts, strategies, and theory-crafting.

All that said, even if you just run 105%, I certainly don't mean to imply that it wouldn't be viable. It is. But, I do believe there is damage loss involved and given the major nerfs that Carnage took throughout 5.x, I try to maximize damage output where I can and I do feel the 110% accuracy build for Carnage is a DPS gain. At the same time, I'm also convinced that the high-alacrity build for Carnage, in it's post 5.6 state is a DPS loss everywhere but on a dummy and as a result, don't run it. I do miss that speed like crazy tho hehe

I'm no expert, but, I do firmly believe that different players have different personal styles, and some do better when not following the assumed "ideal" most others would recommend. The player themself is the most important aspect of all.
Spoiler

ecstazypop's Avatar


ecstazypop
10.29.2018 , 06:03 PM | #14
Hello.
Weird, but a lot of specs rely on accuracy,
I only recommend accuracy stim for some specs, like carnage mara, mm sniper, maybe viru sniper, arsenal merc, io merc can use too, hatred sin etc. I think stim only is enough
For your specs, fury mara and engi sniper I don't use accuracy, mostly because they both are designed as overwhelming specs and use a lot of tech/ force. U may miss furious strike/ concentrated slice, but u gain 10% defense 6 seconds on it, so if u miss its useful anyway. Plus, in stun defense is reduced to 0. If u stun enemy u surely don't miss except u have accuracy debuff from obfuscate or diversion on u. So hear my example, if u see a evasion on a operative, and his resolve bar is cool, u can stun him, and can use melee abilities in that stun, especially oper heal, good oper heal would use evasion after whitebar because of this. That's why snipers are a pain though, cos they have evasion and entrench.
Cheers
Ariel - Darth Malgus