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A Little comparison of def-cd's between the classes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A Little comparison of def-cd's between the classes

DomBah's Avatar


DomBah
10.24.2018 , 09:31 AM | #1
I read many times from some players here how overpowered the merc or the sniper is. Merc has to many deff cd's and so on. So i read a few day ago 5 vs 1 merc and i thought just really? Is this guy and the others troll the community, are they tried to convince the devs with these posts and threads to nerf a class or something.
However finally i take some hour and look for myself what is going on with the damn def-cd's. So here it comes (without shadow, not enough time):

Jugger:
40k instant healing
Immunity vs direct damage + 5 sec 100% direct damage reflect
55% melee /ranged defense chance (100% for the first 2 sec) + 25% force/tech damage reduction
Healing everytime when taking damage up to 122k, can activated while stunned

Remarks:
Second slowest class
Instants class
Very good tools to support grp
No real escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp

DD Taunt
AOE mezz
AOE slow
DD Guard

Maro:
20% damage reduction for up to 30 sec + low damage to attacker
90% accuracy reduction for one target and 75% damage reduction for 6 sec
Vanishing (can used as escape or as damage boost if skilled)
99% damage reduction for 6 sec
55% melee / ranged defense chance + 25% force/tech damage reduction

Remarks:
Fast
One of the best burst
Instants class
Good in nearly every situation, no weaknesses
With escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp
Root / slow break and massive movement boost for the whole grp on 30 sec
AOE mezz


Sniper (Burst DD):

30% damage reduction for 3 attacks every time get in cover
5 sec 200% dodge to melee & ranged attacks + 75% reduction for force and tech attacks
10k absorb shield
Accuracy aoe reduction 45% for 8 sec
25% dogde chance while in cover
AOE shield with 20% damage reduction - up to 40% if 4 enemies in shield - for 20 sec (+ 1%/sec healing if skilled) Roll, purging from movement-cc and 13k instant heal
Complete cc immunity for 23 sec

Remarks:
Immobile while doing damage, but can move fast if skilled
Cast & channel class, but not vulnerable to interrupts because of some class mechanics
High range and many cc tools
Very strong in direct 1vs1, weak against kiter
With escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp
Healing reduction for target for 20%
20% damage reduction for every team member within aoe shield

Operative (Burst DD and Heal):
10k absorb shield
Stealth class - can choose when to get in combat, target mezz from stealth
Battle vanish
3 sec 200% dodge to melee & ranged attacks + 150% reflect tech & force attacks (cd depends on incoming attacks)
2x roll with dodge all attacks for 1.5 sec every time

Remarks:
Fast
Instants class as dd, mixture for healer
In the hands of very good players very efficient dd and healer
But very difficult to master, needs month of practice and experience
Healer can have some problems with interruption through enenmies
With escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp
AOE cloak
Some off healing at the cost of damage

Merc (Burst DD and Heal):

Immunity vs direct damage + reflect direct damage for 50% & healing for every direct incoming damage 6.5k, can activated while stunned
Fast healing (100%) up to 60% of max hp for 10 sec
Shield with 25% damage reduction for 12 sec + up to 53k healing after shield ends (cd + healing depends on incoming damage/attacks)
Burst dd : instant 14k heal every 3x grav round / tracer missile (cost 20% energy and some burst damage)
For burst dd only : 2x absorb force & tech attacks
Electro-net: prevents one enemy to activate movement and some defense abilities for 9 sec (can countered with cc breaker)

Remarks
Slowest class, cannot hunt fast classes
Cast & channel class
Highest vulnerablity to any kind of interrupts
Worst pvp healer, output can be shut down if 2 or more melees attack
Strong in 1vs1, weak against mutiple enemies
No real escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp
Some offhealing at the cost of damage

Powertech (Burst DD):

Shield with 25% damage reduction for 15 sec (CD depends on incoming damage)
Slow healing (50%) up to 35% max hp for 8 sec, (able to activate while stunned if skilled
30% damage reduction while stunned and from area affects
38% defense chance for 6 sec
Damage from area attacks heals for 3,5k

Remarks:
Fast
No anti-focus ability
Instants class
Good tools for cc
One of the best burst in game
With escape tool against slow classes

Other useful abilities for pvp

DD guard
AOE stunn
Enemy target pull
DD taunt

Sorc:

Instant heal 22k (+ 15% damage reduction if skilled)
Immunity to cc and damage for up to 8 sec
Teleport up to 60m away
Damage reduction 25% for 6 sec
Mezz barrier

Remarks:
Fast
Cast & channel class
Vulnerable to any kind of interrupts (depends on spec)
Best pvp healer if guarded, often first target if not
Bad burst damage, even in burst spec
DD needs kiting playstyle to be effective
Weak against multiple enemies

Other useful abilities for pvp

Friendly target pull
Good off heal for team member


As an indicator how a class performs we can get the rankings from ranked pvp. Of course its just an indicator, sadly bioware doesn't share further more statistics. But lets start.
We can look at the Top 100 and the Top 200. I think Top 200 is better for an overview, in the top 100 are more the pro's and nerds. The group statistics are more relevant but the solo are interesting too, because it shows diffenrent situations leads to different class performings.
Current state @ 24.10.18

Group | Solo | Thoughts

Jugger
38 | 30 | Strong in all situations

Maro
32 | 45 | Strong in all situations

Assa
20 | 14 | No judgment here from me

Sorc
34 | 14 | Assume mostly healer, , with tank in group best healer

Powertech
19 | 6 | Assume mostly tanks , in group ok, in solo anti-focus ability is missing

Merc
16 | 37 | Strong if not or just slightly attacked, weak in pressure situations,

Sniper
29 | 38 | Strong in all situations

Operative
12 | 16 | A class for experts, performs very well in the hands of a master, but need months

So my conclusion is that the merc is far away from overpowered, the sniper is good as the maro.
Powertech had some problems, Operative is much to difficult to master. Maro and Jugger are doing better overall then merc.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
10.24.2018 , 09:50 AM | #2
First, what are you trying to prove?
Second, guardian reflect is not a direct damage immunity, it is only effective on force, ranged, and tech attacks. Melee away.
Third, guardians and operatives are melee classes, not ranged, which also helps with defensives as their range is greater than melee.
Fourth, guardians are tanks, dot melee, or burst melee. Operatives are heals, dot melee, or burst melee. Mercs are healers, dot ranged, or burst ranged. And snipers are dot ranged, burst ranged, or "quasi-sustained" ranged (in BWs words, of course by BW logic, concentration is also "quasi-sustained").
These were just the things i noticed that I know offhand.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
10.24.2018 , 11:44 AM | #3
I just came here to read the troll post... The end sentences are the most funny part.

Yes, dude... mercs are trash and not OP in every shape or form. They need to be buffed.

That's why every warzone has dozens of mercs.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
10.24.2018 , 01:18 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DomBah View Post
I read many times from some players here how overpowered the merc or the sniper is. Merc has to many deff cd's and so on. So i read a few day ago 5 vs 1 merc and i thought just really? Is this guy and the others troll the community, are they tried to convince the devs with these posts and threads to nerf a class or something.
However finally i take some hour and look for myself what is going on with the damn def-cd's. So here it comes (without shadow, not enough time):

Jugger:
40k instant healing
Immunity vs direct damage + 5 sec 100% direct damage reflect
55% melee /ranged defense chance (100% for the first 2 sec) + 25% force/tech damage reduction
Healing everytime when taking damage up to 122k, can activated while stunned

Remarks:
Second slowest class
Instants class
Very good tools to support grp
No real escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp

DD Taunt
AOE mezz
AOE slow
DD Guard

Maro:
20% damage reduction for up to 30 sec + low damage to attacker
90% accuracy reduction for one target and 75% damage reduction for 6 sec
Vanishing (can used as escape or as damage boost if skilled)
99% damage reduction for 6 sec
55% melee / ranged defense chance + 25% force/tech damage reduction

Remarks:
Fast
One of the best burst
Instants class
Good in nearly every situation, no weaknesses
With escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp
Root / slow break and massive movement boost for the whole grp on 30 sec
AOE mezz


Sniper (Burst DD):

30% damage reduction for 3 attacks every time get in cover
5 sec 200% dodge to melee & ranged attacks + 75% reduction for force and tech attacks
10k absorb shield
Accuracy aoe reduction 45% for 8 sec
25% dogde chance while in cover
AOE shield with 20% damage reduction - up to 40% if 4 enemies in shield - for 20 sec (+ 1%/sec healing if skilled) Roll, purging from movement-cc and 13k instant heal
Complete cc immunity for 23 sec

Remarks:
Immobile while doing damage, but can move fast if skilled
Cast & channel class, but not vulnerable to interrupts because of some class mechanics
High range and many cc tools
Very strong in direct 1vs1, weak against kiter
With escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp
Healing reduction for target for 20%
20% damage reduction for every team member within aoe shield

Operative (Burst DD and Heal):
10k absorb shield
Stealth class - can choose when to get in combat, target mezz from stealth
Battle vanish
3 sec 200% dodge to melee & ranged attacks + 150% reflect tech & force attacks (cd depends on incoming attacks)
2x roll with dodge all attacks for 1.5 sec every time

Remarks:
Fast
Instants class as dd, mixture for healer
In the hands of very good players very efficient dd and healer
But very difficult to master, needs month of practice and experience
Healer can have some problems with interruption through enenmies
With escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp
AOE cloak
Some off healing at the cost of damage

Merc (Burst DD and Heal):

Immunity vs direct damage + reflect direct damage for 50% & healing for every direct incoming damage 6.5k, can activated while stunned
Fast healing (100%) up to 60% of max hp for 10 sec
Shield with 25% damage reduction for 12 sec + up to 53k healing after shield ends (cd + healing depends on incoming damage/attacks)
Burst dd : instant 14k heal every 3x grav round / tracer missile (cost 20% energy and some burst damage)
For burst dd only : 2x absorb force & tech attacks
Electro-net: prevents one enemy to activate movement and some defense abilities for 9 sec (can countered with cc breaker)

Remarks
Slowest class, cannot hunt fast classes
Cast & channel class
Highest vulnerablity to any kind of interrupts
Worst pvp healer, output can be shut down if 2 or more melees attack
Strong in 1vs1, weak against mutiple enemies
No real escape tool

Other useful abilities for pvp
Some offhealing at the cost of damage

Powertech (Burst DD):

Shield with 25% damage reduction for 15 sec (CD depends on incoming damage)
Slow healing (50%) up to 35% max hp for 8 sec, (able to activate while stunned if skilled
30% damage reduction while stunned and from area affects
38% defense chance for 6 sec
Damage from area attacks heals for 3,5k

Remarks:
Fast
No anti-focus ability
Instants class
Good tools for cc
One of the best burst in game
With escape tool against slow classes

Other useful abilities for pvp

DD guard
AOE stunn
Enemy target pull
DD taunt

Sorc:

Instant heal 22k (+ 15% damage reduction if skilled)
Immunity to cc and damage for up to 8 sec
Teleport up to 60m away
Damage reduction 25% for 6 sec
Mezz barrier

Remarks:
Fast
Cast & channel class
Vulnerable to any kind of interrupts (depends on spec)
Best pvp healer if guarded, often first target if not
Bad burst damage, even in burst spec
DD needs kiting playstyle to be effective
Weak against multiple enemies

Other useful abilities for pvp

Friendly target pull
Good off heal for team member


As an indicator how a class performs we can get the rankings from ranked pvp. Of course its just an indicator, sadly bioware doesn't share further more statistics. But lets start.
We can look at the Top 100 and the Top 200. I think Top 200 is better for an overview, in the top 100 are more the pro's and nerds. The group statistics are more relevant but the solo are interesting too, because it shows diffenrent situations leads to different class performings.
Current state @ 24.10.18

Group | Solo | Thoughts

Jugger
38 | 30 | Strong in all situations

Maro
32 | 45 | Strong in all situations

Assa
20 | 14 | No judgment here from me

Sorc
34 | 14 | Assume mostly healer, , with tank in group best healer

Powertech
19 | 6 | Assume mostly tanks , in group ok, in solo anti-focus ability is missing

Merc
16 | 37 | Strong if not or just slightly attacked, weak in pressure situations,

Sniper
29 | 38 | Strong in all situations

Operative
12 | 16 | A class for experts, performs very well in the hands of a master, but need months

So my conclusion is that the merc is far away from overpowered, the sniper is good as the maro.
Powertech had some problems, Operative is much to difficult to master. Maro and Jugger are doing better overall then merc.
Your conclusion is, based on an hour.

People base their opinions on what they see and numbers. Not what some merc lover not wanting to lose his advantage says about comparisons that have no basis in emperical value.

Even if you actually believe that crap, sometimes, people are wrong.
IMO this is one of those times.

Believe it or not, heals actually have some effect of survivability. Mercs and Snipers both have DCDs and heals. Not everyone has both, and even among those that do, there are massive differences in amounts.I have screen shots that show DPS mercs healing a million + [not the norm for sure]. Show me one WZ screenie that you find a Marauder, or an Assassin even hitting 500k. Even 400k. Heals matter, and they matter a lot. So, what you have done here is try to make a case on survivability, based on half the equation.

Do Juggs have an 'extra life'? Yeah they do, but, they don't have all the amenities that Merc extra lives come with so they are not equatable. They're heals, yeah, but just that, mercs get more than just that with theirs.

Survivability is factored by DCD and heals. They are not the same thing. DCDs mitigate damage, heals return health lost by damage. Not the same thing. - Do yourself a favor, if you really wanna try and preserve their DCDs as they have now, stop pointing them out for any reason.

Mercs/Snipers survivability alone = Broke AF in my opinion.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
10.24.2018 , 01:19 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
I just came here to read the troll post... The end sentences are the most funny part.

Yes, dude... mercs are trash and not OP in every shape or form. They need to be buffed.

That's why every warzone has dozens of mercs.
I especially like the made up or pointless numbers he gives for solo or group "ranking" and his conclusion that mercs are weak under pressure.

A mercs weakness is its interruptability, it can almost be shut down by proper interrupts.

Oh and apparently sents are better without a group than they ate with one.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
10.24.2018 , 01:25 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I especially like the made up or pointless numbers he gives for solo or group "ranking" and his conclusion that mercs are weak under pressure.

A mercs weakness is its interruptability, it can almost be shut down by proper interrupts.

Oh and apparently sents are better without a group than they ate with one.
I am pretty sure he was referring to himself when he said that...

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
10.24.2018 , 02:32 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by DomBah View Post
2x roll with dodge all attacks for 1.5 sec every time
Concentration specs only - there are 2 other op specs that get zero immunities on roll. Also- roll is disabled by net.

Quote:
So my conclusion is that the merc is far away from overpowered, the sniper is good as the maro.
Powertech had some problems, Operative is much to difficult to master. Maro and Jugger are doing better overall then merc.
Your conclusion is flawed - aside from the fact that all specs are not equal, anyone who plays unranked can see that merc/mando's in warzones have too many advantages over other classes.

One merc/mando can be dealt with, but you seldom see less than 3 on a team in warzones. Keep in mind that electro-net prevents many specs from using their main kiting/dcd abilities.

Try playing a warzone where you are constantly netted, and then keep a straight face while claiming merc/mando's are weak.

You want all those dcds on merc/mandos? Fine, but lose that electro-net.
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy tank.

brasoveanu's Avatar


brasoveanu
10.25.2018 , 01:42 AM | #8
Some correction are in order here:
"Powertech (Burst DD):
Shield with 25% damage reduction for 15 sec (CD depends on incoming damage)"- merc has better shield, but powertech's class is called shield tech, but who i am to judge
"Slow healing (50%) up to 35% max hp for 8 sec, (able to activate while stunned if skilled" - as you showed merc has better
"30% damage reduction while stunned and from area affects" - shield tech when stunned, AP, pyro from area
"38% defense chance for 6 sec" - correct
"Damage from area attacks heals for 3,5k" - if this is about "close and personal", you vent 2 heat and you heal 2.5% of your total health once every 3 secs

Remarks:
"Fast" - only with utilities - you need 3 for hydraulic, powertech has the worst utilities in the game!
"No anti-focus ability" - correct
"Instants class" - maybe
"Good tools for cc" - again with utilities
"One of the best burst in game" -correct, but you only have 10 m and only thermal d. and incendiary m. at 30 m, good luck with that burst if you are dead.
"With escape tool against slow classes" - What slow classes? Even snipers cover half of the map easy

Other useful abilities for pvp
DD guard -y
AOE stunn -y
Enemy target pull-y
DD taunt"y
Have you ever played powertech vs merc? Its a lot of running and death at the end for the powertech. Even veteran powertechs are playing mercs now. But like you said, you can play it as tank and with premades. Working as intended.

Mournblood's Avatar


Mournblood
10.25.2018 , 02:16 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by DomBah View Post
Powertech had some problems....
This was my favorite line in the entire post. I don't know how the rest of you missed this gem.
Mourne, Founder

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
10.25.2018 , 03:04 AM | #10
The thing that struck me most was that there are so many DCDs for each class.

With healing being pretty strong ATM, and a lot of DCDs across the board, Its no wonder that in a close match the kill numbers are so small. I was in a Hypergate last night and only 1 or 2 people got into the teens for number of kills on the scoreboard. The rest were single figures. I remember when 20-30-40 'kills' was the usual - at least for tanks and DPS classes. - And I don't suppose the metric has changed. - It seems to be bundles in with assists too if I'm reading it right.

I don't have the type of brain to compare each DCD set with each other in fine detail , but it would be interesting to compare the same for offensive buffs ( and debuffs) as well and see how they compared.
-Storm Cutter.
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