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The Empire are the good guys?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The Empire are the good guys?

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
03.26.2019 , 08:03 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by EvanSnowWolf View Post
I always found the widespread use of slavery to be a little strange. The old meme of "Slavery gets #### done" might be true, but in the real world we didn't have access to such insanely good technology. If we can easily make droids that can understand advanced combat tactics why do we need slaves? You can have droids with barely any sentience at all, if any, to do basic commands of work and labor. Droids you don't need to feed, don't need to sleep, don't get complex medical conditions, don't get pregnant, don't grow old...

You plug them in instead of having them sleep, replace a few parts instead of needing healthcare, and the truly ancient are replaced. So why isn't 90% of all labor in the galaxy droid based?

At this point I think the widespread slavery bit is just used to add more cartoon evil to bad guys to make them more bad guy-ish.
Star Wars is a setting that uses a lot of sci-fi and fantasy tropes, it's not trying to be realistic in every aspect.

MadDutchman's Avatar


MadDutchman
03.26.2019 , 09:25 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
Star Wars is a setting that uses a lot of sci-fi and fantasy tropes, it's not trying to be realistic in every aspect.
I'd actually go so far as to say it's not trying to be realistic in any aspect.
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Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
04.06.2019 , 02:06 AM | #103
This good/bad guys dichotomy is very american. And it comes from their politics and their history.

I won't go into details but in general ,in Europe politics in the past has always been viewed as national interest vs national interest. Morality very rarely came into the picture. And when it did it was almost always secondary. Loyalty to the state has been seen as ones duty, instead to abstract ideals.

When the US started intervening in world politics in the 20th century, they always did it from a position of overwhelming moral superiority in their view. So this thing today is very ingrained in all kinds of settings.
Ofc there is more to it than that but i think it's worth noting.

So no i don't view the Empire as inherently evil, especially the non-force user part of it.
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SaveTheMonkeys's Avatar


SaveTheMonkeys
04.07.2019 , 03:30 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
This good/bad guys dichotomy is very american. And it comes from their politics and their history.

I won't go into details but in general ,in Europe politics in the past has always been viewed as national interest vs national interest. Morality very rarely came into the picture. And when it did it was almost always secondary. Loyalty to the state has been seen as ones duty, instead to abstract ideals.

When the US starting intervening in world politics in the 20th century, they always did it from a position of overwhelming moral superiority in their view. So this thing today is very ingrained in all kinds of settings.
Ofc there is more to it than that but i think it's worth noting.

So no i don't view the Empire as inherently evil, especially the non-force user part of it.
Uhuh.
Sooo… slavery isn't inherently evil, then?

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
04.09.2019 , 11:19 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by SaveTheMonkeys View Post
Uhuh.
Sooo… slavery isn't inherently evil, then?
The question is if one faction practices slavery or whatever else, that another faction deems bad according to its standards, does that justify hostile action, by the latter.

The Republic doesn't require the slavery justification to be hostile towards the Empire. The less ''noble'' reason of self defence is sufficient enough, among others.
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SaveTheMonkeys's Avatar


SaveTheMonkeys
04.09.2019 , 03:41 PM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
The question is if one faction practices slavery or whatever else, that another faction deems bad according to its standards, does that justify hostile action, by the latter.

The Republic doesn't require the slavery justification to be hostile towards the Empire. The less ''noble'' reason of self defence is sufficient enough, among others.
That's not the question. The question is "Are the Empire the good guys?" To argue that the Empire is in any way the 'good guys' is to condone its practices.

This is Star Wars, not 20th century geo-politics - It's really not that complicated.

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
04.10.2019 , 03:06 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by SaveTheMonkeys View Post
That's not the question. The question is "Are the Empire the good guys?" To argue that the Empire is in any way the 'good guys' is to condone its practices.
You are the one that insists on calling them good or bad and hence condone or condemn, not me.
Why the need to do that in the first place?
If you say the Republic are the good guys, do you also condone its many many ''questionable'' practices and actions we see in this game alone? Not to mention things from the general lore.
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BradTheImpaler's Avatar


BradTheImpaler
04.12.2019 , 02:53 PM | #108
Not every Imperial condones slavery. Some pubs & their allies either condone (at least one notable Senator) or actually practice (Hutts, gangsters, megacorporations) slavery. The idea that it's confined to one side is misguided. If the Republic were some benevolent regime, the Empire wouldn't be able to fill its ranks with the "dregs" of its rimward systems.

The first Bane novel goes into this, as well. Many on the Imperial side fully recognize the Sith as generally evil, but as a necessary evil to counter the Jedi. Of course, the Sith have their own ideas for the direction of the Empire, which the "average citizens" tend to get dragged into...but the Empire itself could be seen as a malleable alternative to the Republic (heck, even self-declared anarchists work with them just to undermine the Republic's authority).
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OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
04.12.2019 , 08:41 PM | #109
It's not a remotely comparable situation, though. Slavery is practiced extensively in the Empire, while in the Republic it is not practiced at all. Even owning the technology used in slave collars is illegal.

It's like comparing the USA in 1819 to the USA in 2019. Not every American approved of slavery back in the 18th and 19th century, and even in the present day the US has allies with unsavory human rights records, but that doesn't mean the situations are even the slightest bit equivalent.

lawfig's Avatar


lawfig
04.12.2019 , 11:45 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by VelvetSanity View Post
I’d say at this point, the biggest differences between how the republic and the empire operate is whether the abuses/corruption/etc occur openly or are hidden behind closed doors...

Which is why my consular wants to keep her alliance, and hopefully convince the Jedi as a whole to switch to it
This I one hundred percent agree with. I don't like the empire, my operative in fact hates the empire. But I don't like the republic either . I hope at some point the alliance I built can persuade one side or the other to join the Alliance. I don't like the double agent option with OSSUS. it was not difficult for my operative but was very hard for my counselor. They said out choices would matter. Other than the choice between Vette and Torian I don't see that our choices matter at all.

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