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How to make ranked not gear dependant and truly skill based

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
How to make ranked not gear dependant and truly skill based

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
07.13.2018 , 07:37 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
pve ilvl will always bolster to the same pvp stat level.....So like say the pvp sets are ilvl 204 and 208. bolster up or down to ilvl 200 with the appropriate expertise.
there quite a bit of important stat data left out here.

reverse bolster only works in theory, because not all stats bolster down. crit, all tank stats, alacrity do not. which means nightmare gear will have a huge advantage.

if you mean they will gain "less" expertise to make up for their stat output, consider how gear disparity comparisions work.

in 4.0 regardless of your gear you were given a flat 750 expertise. which was a rough 20% damage and 10% damage reduction

if you consider this context, then measure that expertise was the lowest gear rating in the game (208 vs 216) that ment there was a 10% DPS drop from a pvper to a 216, now add 750 expertise (10%damage reduction, 20% dps) you are looking at a 216 hitting 30% harder, taking 10% less damage, than a 208 who has zero exp. now give the 208 2018 expertise, damage is buffed by 60% and DR is buffed by 30%, that means 208+30%DR and 216+10% DR + hp (30% {number taken from 230-248, 100k-130k hp}) your looking at roughly equal damage resist, 208 has 20% more from expertise, 216 still had 30% more hp.

as for the 60% damage increase, 60% damage bonus vs 30% (gear difference 10% ans 750 exp 20%)
crunching this (correct me if I got something wrong, I'm not always the best at math)
Spoiler


conclusion.... the pve'r died in 3 less hits than the pvper did.

the thing that people don't remember... is nightmare gear wasn't handed to you in 4.0, or the other expansions. most people never even saw that gear. they complain endlessly that expertise was too "strong" it was like 3 hits stronger than final pve content...... and "ranked" gear, or 208 was pvp final content. comparable to nightmare mode. which means if your going to wear hard mode op gear, expect to not stand up to a ranked player.
Quote: Originally Posted by RafaelPeretz View Post
hope they don't wait 2 years to fix it.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
07.13.2018 , 08:53 PM | #52
You completely misunderstood what I said....

I'm saying that any slot with pve gear would adjust to the proper expertise amount to ensure that the player would be max expertise, but the other stats would go up or down to a baseline stat that is under the pvp gear. So again, say pvp gear was 204 and 208. Any slot with pve gear, regardless if its level 1 gear or nightmare ops gear, they would bolster up or down to ilvl 200 with stats that are ilvl 200 for that specific slot. The stats on the pve gear would have no meaning. The bolster would give them baseline ilvl 200 gear stats and adjust the bolster for each slot to ensure the player has 2018 bolster.

Basically think of every slot with pve gear as recruit gear (if anyone remembers that) but with a gap that wouldn't be ridiculous like recruit gear was. It wouldn't have the slight advantage or stat customization that someone wearing pvp 208 gear would have, but it would be enough that they would remain competitive and not just get blown up. Obviously 208 would be ideal in ranked, but for a casual trying to gear up in reg warzones they would be able to be competitive.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
07.13.2018 , 09:02 PM | #53
I could be misunderstanding this once again, if I am, Im really sorry, it sounds like your suggestion is regardless gear make everyone equal.

if this is what you are saying, my responce would be to remind you that at 5.0 launch warzone bolster was set to 250.

it was ultimatly lowered due to the fact...... that there was no progression. it turned pvp into a minigame, no matter your gear, no matter your augments, whenever you wanted a break from pve you queued wz, and bam you were just the same as eric, 10 meters from you with a red life bar.
Quote: Originally Posted by RafaelPeretz View Post
hope they don't wait 2 years to fix it.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
07.13.2018 , 09:44 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
I could be misunderstanding this once again, if I am, Im really sorry, it sounds like your suggestion is regardless gear make everyone equal.

if this is what you are saying, my responce would be to remind you that at 5.0 launch warzone bolster was set to 250.

it was ultimatly lowered due to the fact...... that there was no progression. it turned pvp into a minigame, no matter your gear, no matter your augments, whenever you wanted a break from pve you queued wz, and bam you were just the same as eric, 10 meters from you with a red life bar.
There would still be progression because there is pvp gear that is a higher tier and if they bring back the mod vendors they have that ability to customize their stats, preferably what we had in 4.0.

Individual slots that have pve gear slotted into it would simply be raised or lowered to a baseline stat/ilvl below the pvp gear, but the bolster would ensure that pve piece would have enough expertise to put them at 2018 expertise instead of the wonky system we had before that adjusted stats and expertise based on ilvl and it had crazy wide variations with higher ilvl's giving less expertise. Nah, that system is dumb. This system would adjust all pve gear to the same baseline (I'm no coder, but personally it seems to me like this would be simpler than the crazy design they had for the old bolster)

Basically if you were a brand new player and you had no pvp gear yet, you'd waltz into pvp and all your slots with pve gear would bolster up or down to a baseline ilvl and stats and distribute the correct amount of expertise to be 2018 expertise. So as they grind for pvp gear they will always have 2018 expertise, but they will just get small improvements in stats and ilvl as they gear up to the pvp gear.

Aaroneus's Avatar


Aaroneus
07.16.2018 , 03:58 PM | #55
or just get rid of gear in pvp all together. each class gets a set of base stats. everyone is happy.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
07.16.2018 , 04:16 PM | #56
expertise served two purposes... and ^ would actually do them both, very good suggestion


expertise provided cheap, buy and jump in gear (many of us earned the required 21k comms leveling with wzs) and it provided a 10% att boost that pve didnt provide. a concept idea for this, is that in pve you are ment to live, in pvp you are ment to die... and so, pve costs a penalty (literally, credits) to continue doing it if you died.

however counter point to your arguement is that there would be no customization, which would drastically kill the pvp community numbers..... that being said... it would end skank tanks, it would end "no accuracy" builds, it would end hybrids, and it would end nubz who were confused what to spec too... so seriously good idea...... in theory.
Quote: Originally Posted by RafaelPeretz View Post
hope they don't wait 2 years to fix it.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
07.16.2018 , 05:53 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
For ranked they could make it a prerequisite to wear a preset gear outfit so everyone had the same stats. This would make it truly a best of the best contest involving only skill not gears.

This preset ranked gear suit could be purchased cheaply off a special new vendor, and all 14 slots would have to be worn to gain entry to the ranked queue and no gear swapping would be allowed once in the ranked queue.

They could also run Best of the Best contests with 1 vs. 1s using these same preset gear suits... 2 vs. 2s, etc.

Once ranked becomes popular again with this new format they could then bring back 8 vs. 8 ranked.
Using your same logic then there can be no skill based PVP between the classes. Mainly because Bioware/EA adopted a system where some class are weaker vs other classes currently Jug, Sniper and Merc are the winners mainly because of huge DPS and long up-time thereby breaking trinity. A lot of things also play in to this such as poorly designed visual cues that let the player know hey this person just did something for example when a lightning sorc cast his huge hitting blast you can see the giant circle and you know to basically interrupt it. With these classes their visual cues are hard to see or get drowned out such as the most egregious offender the merc with his shields. If a merc pops his yellow (heals) and has a sorc bubble the bubble color purple drowns out the visuals or operatives healing globe (green) drowns out the yellow and worst yet the mercs very own blue drowns out the yellow. Giving an advantage to classes that really at this point don't need it. If your gonna have these skills then the visual cues must be predominant over other visual cues, and be readily seen and recognized.
but I digress the point i'm trying to make is that in order for you to have the PVP that you want which is based on player skill then the classes ALL OF THEM would have to under go a nascar revamp where every classes abilities where similar in nature just nomenclature was change to fit various classes I for one have been sorely awaiting the day when bioware's hypocrisy gets called out and jugs force push that knocks someone clear across the map and knocks them down get replaced with a stun just like they nerfed assassins spike which use to be a knock down but got changed into a stun) (yeah that right I STILL HOLD A GRUDGE LAME HYPOCRITICAL DEV'S)
dang off on a tangent again sorry, so while this would be the ultimate in "Skill based" it would also be cookie cutter classes and as many have proclaimed not very fun. IMHO if Bioware would just follow the trinity they could minimize this.

Heals shouldn't do dmg and be taxed with managing a pool to avoid what is currently be seen with SORC heals in that you have 3-4 que and 1 guards a node. Now this forces opposing team to send 2 or 3 DPS just to grab a node which may become difficult if you have say one healer.This could also be rectified by limiting number of heals aswell.

Tanks shouldn't do DPS but if you gonna have them doing DPS then they better cap out at half what a PURE DPS spec does.

Pure DPS specs do lots of DMG but are glass cannons

Hybrids should be avoided but if insisting on implementation again DPS output slightly better than Tank .