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The State of Endgame.


RiVaN_'s Avatar


RiVaN_
05.11.2016 , 11:30 AM | #1
Many folks here on these forums, on Reddit and other fan sites agree, most raiding in SWTOR is compartmentalized within the raid guilds that currently exist these days and very few HM PUG's are successful and therefore the practice is being abandoned.

The problem that the game as a whole seems to be running into is that there aren't many experienced raider's who have the skill to beat HM/NiM ops left and those who do have the skill are spread out among many guilds. There is also a shortage of guilds willing, truly willing, to do the work to teach a new players how to learn the skills they need to beat the current content and to help them get the gear. Sure there are plenty of us saying that we are willing teachers and gear doesn't matter. Honestly though, no one wants to spend a month backtracking through content they got bored of 4 years ago and are beginning to loathe now that BW has "made it relevant again." No one really WANTS to spend 2 weeks gearing a newbie, a month teaching them the fights and then turn around again a month later and do that same thing all over again. Many of us do it because we are good, nice, decent people, others do it because it is the only way to keep raiding. But it seems more often than not, most guilds prefer to get an experienced player who already has the skill and gear or fold up shop.

Let's be perfectly clear, the Op's are only relevant again because people want the gear that drops from the Highlighted HM's. Other than the gear grind, these old ops mean absolutely squat to most veteran players. There is no challenge left in those Op's. Sure HM Denova is still challenging, but it's more than passable. HM Styrak is still challenging, but more than do-able and the same holds true for Fortress, Palace, Ravager and ToS.

I have spoken with many folks from about 7 different guilds and the consensus seems to be that if there isn't a new, fully functional op out by the end of KotFE Season 1 in August then many of us (I'm talking 120 players from 7 different guilds across 3 servers) that will be leaving SWTOR until a new Op is published. If they announce an Op to be dropped before the end of the year, about half of us are willing to keep playing, but with Ops passes bought off the GTN and canceling our subscriptions till the Op drops.

To put that into a monetary or measurable format, that is $1,798.80 per month that will no longer be going into the EA pocketbook if we do not see a new Op soon. Sure, in the grand scheme of things that is chump change, but If this is our position, how do we know if it isn't the position of many others as well?

I'll be clear, new levels to grind out, a new tier of gear, an instance boss, a Flash Point, or a series of Solo Mode fights aren't gonna keep many of us around. It's too late for all of that. If a FP or instance boss had come out between Dec or March, then that may have satisfied many. Not now. It's an Op or good-bye. Many of us have already jumped into ESO, Marvel Hero's, Blade and Soul and Black Dessert as "hold-me-over's" moving away from the MMO part of this MMORPG is going to accomplish nothing other than pushing out long term subscribers. Because we are a multi-game guild my guild has gotten MANY new members in all of the above mentioned games simply because they have heard we are taking in SWTOR refugees.

People love this game, HM raiders still playing SWTOR still LOVE this game, it is the reason we still play. It is the reason we WANT to see new Op's, PvP maps, instanced bosses and flashpoints. It's the reason we are so vocal about what we want. SWTOR is leaving almost nothing for the end game player to do. Don't give me that "all the stories are so awesome" horse crap. I have played every story twice on JC, once on Shadowlands and select stories on Harbanger. I have played the stories to their bloody boredom point and the stories from Makeb - KotFE (with the exception of Rishi) have no replay value in my book. I know that many people feel the same way I do.

So is it time for me to take a break?
Yep.
Is it time for MANY others like me to take a break?
Yep.
Will many of us come back?
Given the state of SWTOR and the state of other games available...
It's doubtful. So many are gone having vowed never to return and more are joining them everyday.

All most of us really want is some new Op's and filler content that gives us a reason to play SWTOR and only SWTOR. In the end that puts money, lots and lots of money, into the BW/EA coffers. That, in turn, allows them to continue to produce all sorts of content that lots of people can enjoy. So tell me how it is that Veteran Raiders clamoring for new Op's is a bad thing?
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DarthSpuds's Avatar


DarthSpuds
05.11.2016 , 11:38 AM | #2
Hell of a long way to say "Moar Rayds Or We /Ragequit" don't you think?


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xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
05.11.2016 , 11:40 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by RiVaN_ View Post
Many folks here on these forums

All most of us really want
Don't you dare try to include me among your "many" and "most". Your "many" and "most" is wrong as well. PVP/OPs players are not this game's "many" and "most."

DieAlteHexe's Avatar


DieAlteHexe
05.11.2016 , 11:47 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
Don't you dare try to include me among your "many" and "most". Your "many" and "most" is wrong as well. PVP/OPs players are not this game's "many" and "most."
*tiredly raises her hand*

Why can't people just say "I" instead of "we"?
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DarthSpuds's Avatar


DarthSpuds
05.11.2016 , 11:48 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
Don't you dare try to include me among your "many" and "most". Your "many" and "most" is wrong as well. PVP/OPs players are not this game's "many" and "most."
Yup.

The reason so many MMORPGs have moved away from Raids/Ops/PvP is because as relative to the entire player base MOST players don't play them and NOT many do.

That's not to say I'd ever like to see a game that didn't have those things; but the thread starters statements about "most and many" are not supported by facts.

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Kortio's Avatar


Kortio
05.11.2016 , 11:55 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by RiVaN_ View Post
The problem that the game as a whole seems to be running into is that there aren't many experienced raider's who have the skill to beat HM/NiM ops left and those who do have the skill are spread out among many guilds. ?
The community as a whole brought that onto themselves.
I raided a lot in other games, in this game I have no intention doing anything other than SM.
Why?
Because it requires that you install a 3rd party program AND nobody will take you with them if you don't already know the tactics. I have spoken to 5 guilds the last few weeks, all of them declined because I don't already know the tactics. It's like they expect that SWTOR knowledge is passed on genetically.

Also, I had to abandon 3 SM Groups in the last 2 weeks (one yesterday), because some HC/NIM Raiders started arguing about irrelevant stuff from HC Raids and got so caught up in it, started insulting each other and then they left and then everyone else left.

At some point you just give up and stick with SM.

I do my daily OPS and that is it with raiding for me in this game, as long as the raiding community is not more inclusive instead of exclusive.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
05.11.2016 , 11:57 AM | #7
If you are only here waiting for new ops, it's time for a break. If they had one in development, they would tell you. Since they have not, it is obviously 6+ months out at least. If you enjoy other aspects of the game like myself, then stick around and hope they put out something new to satisfy that desire as well.
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IanArgent's Avatar


IanArgent
05.11.2016 , 11:58 AM | #8
The raiders answer is "If you build it, we will come." Despite the best evidence we have (which isn't all that good), that they didn't show up in enough numbers.
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squirrelballz's Avatar


squirrelballz
05.11.2016 , 11:59 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
If you are only here waiting for new ops, it's time for a break. If they had one in development, they would tell you. Since they have not, it is obviously 6+ months out at least. If you enjoy other aspects of the game like myself, then stick around and hope they put out something new to satisfy that desire as well.
Gotta agree with this stick around if the game is still to your liking or come back when they release new content.
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Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
05.11.2016 , 12:02 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Kortio View Post
The community as a whole brought that onto themselves.
I raided a lot in other games, in this game I have no intention doing anything other than SM.
Why?
Because it requires that you install a 3rd party program AND nobody will take you with them if you don't already know the tactics. I have spoken to 5 guilds the last few weeks, all of them declined because I don't already know the tactics. It's like they expect that SWTOR knowledge is passed on genetically.

Also, I had to abandon 3 SM Groups in the last 2 weeks (one yesterday), because some HC/NIM Raiders started arguing about irrelevant stuff from HC Raids and got so caught up in it, started insulting each other and then they left and then everyone else left.

At some point you just give up and stick with SM.

I do my daily OPS and that is it with raiding for me in this game, as long as the raiding community is not more inclusive instead of exclusive.
HM/NiM groups in every game require some third party application to join. No one is doing them without some sort of VoIP application like Mumble or Teamspeak. Many like you to have Starparse as well so you can see how you are performing your role and where you took damage that might indicate why you failed. There are at least 3 guilds with open recruitment on Harb willing to take inexperienced raiders into groups, so I disagree that guilds won't take you if you don't know what you're doing.

But these raids are all more than a year old (if not 4 years old) and most players know how to complete them if they are participating. You will be hard pressed to find a group that is wanting to go in blind and "learn" the fights on their own. Best case scenario you pick a guild willing to explain the mechanics to you during the raid (I know of at least one that will). Worst case scenario, they want you to read the Dulfy guide beforehand.
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