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Buff SM operations


xkcurtisx's Avatar


xkcurtisx
04.29.2016 , 08:47 AM | #191
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
You started to play in 4.0 right?
Nope i started raiding HM EC times

hunterlue's Avatar


hunterlue
04.29.2016 , 09:27 AM | #192
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
You are saying 3.0 NIM SnV pug run is easier than 4.0 HM SnV guild run?
Oh really? Then why didn't most of the pugs run for non EV/KP HM unless there is priority?
exactly, 3.0 NM SnV was easier than 4.0 HM now

marekdusek's Avatar


marekdusek
04.29.2016 , 10:16 AM | #193
Quote: Originally Posted by Kortio View Post
That does not matter. The tool provides it and that is the problem. It makes OPS easier than they are designed to be, because you have information in real time that otherwise would not be available to you.
It is an unallowed 3rd party program and falls into the cheating sector of the TOS.
Hey there, just to clarify: StarParse is definitely NOT in any TOS violation as it does not interact with the game and does process only data provided by the game for the sole purpose of parsing. I personaly checked its compliance with a Bioware rep, you can do it too if my humble word is not enough :-)

Anyways, regarding the "makes stuff easier" bit - yes, I also believe StarParse does make certain aspects of the combat easier (great example is Revan HM 3rd floor pull/push timers). However, I would argue that those are not the deciding factors whether a raid team or individual would beat the encounter or not. In other words, StarParse is more of a "convenience" (or QoL if you will) for those who has or would overcome the challenge anyway, somewhat streamlining the play for them,rather than something enabling less-skilled raiders to kill a boss.

Also as already pointed out, the difficulty of WOW does not come from "hidden" mechanics (requiring you to use your own stopwatch), but rather from perfect execution and coordination requirements based on something clearly presented to you (literally showing you where to stand and when to move), allowing the raids to be much more complex and one tier (if not several) above anything SWTOR can offer in terms of dificulty.

Last but not least, I believe noone would argue being able to analyze your own output (DPS, HPS, ...) leads to a better gaming performance (and experience).

TL;DR
StarParse does fully comply with SWTOR TOS
Timers etc are more of a QoL/convenience, not a deciding factor of a succesfull raid
Visible mechanics does not imply trivialized content, quite on the contrary - they allow for more interesting fights
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Excise's Avatar


Excise
04.29.2016 , 10:22 AM | #194
Quote: Originally Posted by marekdusek View Post
Also as already pointed out, the difficulty of WOW does not come from "hidden" mechanics (requiring you to use your own stopwatch), but rather from perfect execution and coordination requirements based on something clearly presented to you (literally showing you where to stand and when to move), allowing the raids to be much more complex and one tier (if not several) above anything SWTOR can offer in terms of dificulty.
I haven't been in the WoW raiding scene in a while but don't they have the Deadly Boss Mods add-on? aka Starparse on steroids?

I always got the impression that WoW makes their harder difficulty raids with DBM in mind.
[[The real Revan wouldn't go crazy and kill the Emperor with an insane ceremony. The real Revan would get smashed on stims until his eyeballs bled, abuse the insane pathing AI, and reload the instant something went wrong. He would be unstoppable.]]

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
04.29.2016 , 10:35 AM | #195
Quote: Originally Posted by hunterlue View Post
exactly, 3.0 NM SnV was easier than 4.0 HM now
How? Chained Manifestations is much more difficult to dealt, there are knockback in the Kell Dragon phase, the little illusions spawn at random places
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Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
04.29.2016 , 10:38 AM | #196
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
It's clear you have nothing to actually add to the conversation besides your repeated 3-4 comments. You keep mentioning some single instance of everything working fine for you and use that as your basis for why banging your head against the wall in HMs is the only way to learn. Forget any amount of research that shows you learn easier in pieces than all at once. I'm sure if you were going to memorize a speech, you would just keep reading the whole thing until you remembered it all instead of learning it in pieces and putting them together as you go along.
What pieces? If you have trouble to learn those mechanics, don't do HM.

Quote:
You're living in this fake forum world where everyone is against you and everyone just wants people to fail so we can say how much better we are when literally everyone asking for SM changes has already said that it would be preferable to have an option like SM is now for the casual player with 2 other modes to have a lower tier and higher tier of the operation. We all know, however, that BW is not going to support 3 versions of anything. If they are going to continue producing raids, then they may as well make 2 versions that raiders will actually enjoy. Create one that the average raider can complete and one that will be a challenge instead of one that is braindead and one that the average raider can complete.
Sorry most of the players don't care that much at HM at all, they just want to do SM. There are challenge in SM for pugs, it's probably braindead to some guild raiders, but not to everyone, why can't you understand it?
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Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
04.29.2016 , 11:20 AM | #197
Seriously, I've wiped quite a few times in these "brain dead" content with pug groups, bosses like M&B, the Cartel Warlords, Styrak and the DP bosses aren't that easy for pugs. Imagine what if they were further buffed.
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Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
04.29.2016 , 11:28 AM | #198
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Seriously, I've wiped quite a few times in these "brain dead" content with pug groups, bosses like M&B, the Cartel Warlords, Styrak and the DP bosses aren't that easy for pugs. Imagine what if they were further buffed.
So PUGs can do NiM SnV, but can't clear SM stuff now? Which is it? And for the record, I'm totally fine with poorly coordinated PUGs having to deal with a few wipes in SM content.
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hunterlue's Avatar


hunterlue
04.29.2016 , 11:28 AM | #199
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
How? Chained Manifestations is much more difficult to dealt, there are knockback in the Kell Dragon phase, the little illusions spawn at random places
oh please your dps was so high that you had to knockback each 1 time.

a little bit more awareness is needed for the illusions but you just had to assign one side to each player, they just had to react a bit quicker to get to them in time now, really no big deal

and what does the knockback matter at the kelldragon phase if anyone can facetank his spikes because they have like 15k more hp than intended and are 6 gear tiers higher.

now the mechanics of the hm version today are obviously much easier, but the DPS required to down him is much more challengeing than doing it in 3.0 NM

gabigool's Avatar


gabigool
04.29.2016 , 12:44 PM | #200
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Seriously, I've wiped quite a few times in these "brain dead" content with pug groups, bosses like M&B, the Cartel Warlords, Styrak and the DP bosses aren't that easy for pugs. Imagine what if they were further buffed.
You understand that what the OP is talking about is not so much a buff, but rather putting back mechanics that were always in SM content that have been removed recently.

Are you trying to say that SM content used to be too difficult?

I do not think I've ever once heard that a SM fight was too hard for a group to complete simply due to its mechanics.

It's always been because of some anomaly encounter with out-of-whack outgoing damage or dps requirements.

In all seriousness, was Phase 1 of Kephess the Undying (TFB) a raid stopper? My strong recollection (like 99.99% sure) is that people hated the Phase 2 blue circle mechanic more than the P1 pillar mechanic.

What is the one fight that stops pugs due to mechanics (and mechanics alone)? I'm honestly trying to think.

Perhaps Vorgath. But -the mechanics still exist in that fight, and you folks insist SM is fine so that must be ok to you.
Op 9? I have been in pugs where we've seen 4 blue phases. And again, still exists - and you all say it's fine.

Maybe there's one. I can't think of it though.

So I'm curious what is so damning to people in suggesting that perhaps removing the tank swap from Toth/Zorn didn't really accomplish much other than to make sure on HHM day that you're more likely to get a tank that has never done it?

Was SM Toth and Zorn a pug killer? I don't recall it ever being so, and that mechanic was in the game for 3 years before it was removed.

I guess I just don't get it.

I really am not sure why "SM content is fine now" with, say, MB tuned as it is - yet somehow putting the pillar mechanic back into Kephess would utterly wreck SM.

It doesn't makes sense at all to me.