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Any Thoughts On Expansion Classes?


losdia

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The other day someone posted an idea for creating an agnostic neutral force user class. It was decidedly "meh" but it got me thinking. What exactly is BW going to do about adding classes? There is an expectation that MMOs eventually expand content with new classes, but where is there room for it in a game as story focused as TOR? What could be added to the existing story that wouldn't feel like it was just filler padding out an already complete story? The only thing I can think of is something to help better bridge the non-force user and Jedi/Sith storylines. Maybe that could even be incorporated into the class esthetic with them being blaster wielding force users (Antarian Rangers could work for this with a couple of timeline retcons).

 

Then there is the question of what kind of class role could be added to TOR without it either being redundant or broken. To be honest I'm not sure there is a role that isn't well covered by the ACs. About the only thing I can think of is a straight up pally style tank-healer hybrid, which would be an absolute monster in the current game. There is some room for a primary Buff/Debuff class, but that would be so group centric that the solo story aspects of the class would suffer. Taking a page from Pandaland, Monk style unarmed DPS classes always add a nice flavor to a game, plus there is some interesting canon in Teras Kasi to draw from. That's the problem though, from a balance perspective all the bases are covered right now and adding anything feels to me like it would just be adding flavor rather than real content.

 

I just wanted to see if I could get a conversation started about this. I know a lot of this has been talked to death, but I'd like to hear some thoughts from other people. So, what do you think?

Edited by losdia
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Maybe a character that looks like the Sith guards on Koriban. They could heal with tech and have a saber staff or saber whip for one AC and the other could have a saber staff or lightsaber and shield and be a tank with little force. It would kind of be like the Sith assassins in the Force Unleashed where they can use lightsabers well but aren't very strong in the force. Their resource could be called energy I guess. It might be harder to make an equivalent for the Republic though but I guess you could make a Senate guard or Chancellor's guard.
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I want them to make a droid engineer or creature handler class. Droid engineer could quest for new and bigger and better droids or memory cores and weapons and armor for their creations.

Creature handler could be like a onderon beast master. Go around and collect eggs and breed and cross breed creatures to make new different creatures and experiments. See a big tie in with some crew skills for these also. Scav/slice and others for droid eng, bioanalysis and others for creature handler. Could be epic and if either could make droids or creature companions for other professions? Epic! Make my Jedi consular a baby rancor companion please!

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You already can play Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Obi-Wan, Darths Vader though Maul, Boba Fett , Master Chief and James Bond.

 

But you can't play Leia or Padme. I think the next class they add should be a noble. Before people freak and think this is a gender argument, please don't. One of the common complaints I've heard about SWTOR is that players can't adopt the roles of many of the major character presented in the movies. This includes aliens and droids, who I'd also like to be able to play, but I rank Leia and Padme as more the important character types that feel missing from the game. I might even argue that Lando (aka Baron Calrissian) fits into a noble type better than the smuggler class.

 

I seem to recall there was noble class in one of the paper SWRPGs and I bet that could be a starting point. I could rattle off all sorts of ideas for a noble class. Leia is certainly ranged dps (next time you watch Star Wars, note that she's the best shot of the three leads), but I can see a force or tech based healing tree in there too.

Edited by Galandro
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You already can play Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Obi-Wan, Darths Vader though Maul, Boba Fett , Master Chief and James Bond.

 

But you can't play Leia or Padme. I think the next class they add should be a noble. Before people freak and think this is a gender argument, please don't. One of the common complaints I've heard about SWTOR is that players can't adopt the roles of many of the major character presented in the movies. This includes aliens and droids, who I'd also like to be able to play, but I rank Leia and Padme as more the important character types that feel missing from the game. I might even argue that Lando (aka Baron Calrissian) fits into a noble type better than the smuggler class.

 

I seem to recall there was noble class in one of the paper SWRPGs and I bet that could be a starting point. I could rattle off all sorts of ideas for a noble class. Leia is certainly ranged dps (next time you watch Star Wars, note that she's the best shot of the three leads), but I can see a force or tech based healing tree in there too.

 

What?...Uh...Han is.

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I have to admit I kind of like the idea of a class that reflects the story of Leia and Padme. In broad theory, I think that was what BW intended for the IA role, but the class story ended up being something else. BW originally claimed that SI and JC class stories would be based around political intrigue and diplomacy,but that never really paned out. A class story that showed us the political side of the war would be pretty cool.
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The idea I've been bouncing for a while is for Imperial Guardsmen - Y'know, redcloaks, ******es with electrostaffs? Yeah, those guys.

 

They would have Blaster Rifles in mainhand and Techblades in the offhand, wear Medium or Heavy armor (Most likely) and be based around being, essentially, a slightly more powerful but less flexible Vanguard/Powertech class.

 

They can switch in-combat between Blaster stance and Melee stance, switching out the weapon type they hold in the main hand to either do light, but sustained long-range damage through a number of rapid-fire attacks and crowd control abilities (similar to the Sniper), or high close-range burst damage with their melee weapons using leaping attacks and arcing AoE strikes (similar to a Marauder or a Rage Juggernaut).

 

Advanced Classes would have them equip Sniper Rifles or Techstaffs to specialize in one type of combat, with Melee specialists being Tanks and Ranged specialists possibly being Healers (Similar to the Powertech/Mercenary dichotomy.)

 

I don't know what the Republic equivalent would be but someone mentioned the Senate Guard above, and there's always the Antarian Rangers, or perhaps some predecessor to them (as they are established later in the timeline). It's not a big stretch given that the current Imperial Guard is very strongly based on the Emperor's Red Guard, also established much, much later in the timeline.

Edited by HellbirdIV
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I want them to make a droid engineer or creature handler class. Droid engineer could quest for new and bigger and better droids or memory cores and weapons and armor for their creations.

Creature handler could be like a onderon beast master. Go around and collect eggs and breed and cross breed creatures to make new different creatures and experiments. See a big tie in with some crew skills for these also. Scav/slice and others for droid eng, bioanalysis and others for creature handler. Could be epic and if either could make droids or creature companions for other professions? Epic! Make my Jedi consular a baby rancor companion please!

 

I sort of like this idea. Would they be two AC's of a single class? Some of your idea sounds more like additions to existing crafting skills than a new character class.

But I can definately see a skill to override a droid for the DE. Not a cc ability, but to slice it's control circuits to attack nearby mobs for a short period.

And a similar talent for the CH.

 

The major issue I foresee is that the game is set up, from the ground up, for 4 base classes.

Each use one of 4 primary stats. If you create a new class, you will have to give it a stat. Either the same stat as an existing class, making it, in some ways, an extension of that. Or create a whole new stat, which will add an entire new series of issues within the game.

 

A simpler way would be to make some changes to companions, making it possible to recruit more.

Call them Mercenary Companions.

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I was just going to say, I would love to play the Voss. That would be pimp status. As for what class? I dont know. The diplomat seams like a cool idea. Have things like Diplomatic Immunity that could drop agro or Political Asylum that could get you out of combat.
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Ive rolled around with an idea for a senate class and while i haven't figured out the play style i have come up with possibility a good starting point story wise.

 

i had it start where your the son or daughter of the senator of whatever planet your from and you have been sent to ord mantell for a peace talks between the pro republic and separatist forces.

 

you arrive with your farther and his bodyguard who is your first companion while the talk get under way a dude comes up saying that once of the representatives is under attack and need help with only you there you go and help, however it turns out to be a ruse as once you and a few troops are gone the delegates including your farther are killed.

 

so you go through ord mantell looking for his killer and at the same time trying to patch things over between the two factions, at the end you discover the killer is a imperial agent and has fled to courcant.

 

so you go there report to the senate who during this time make you a representative for your planet.

 

the story goes on like padme and lieas, sure your a senator but in these times of war most senators are combat trained and go out and help people.

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No Star Wars-based RPG or FPS I'm aware of has let you play a droid as the primary player character. I'd love to see that change in a hypothetical SWTOR expansion or sequel. Who wouldn't want to play as an HK-series assassin droid or an inexplicably well-armed astromech?
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Sarlacc Enforcer.

Seriously though, it doesn't seem like the tech for pets is in place (it would be totally different from the one of companions). This being said, because of the costs of the story I'm a bit skeptical they will add any more classes through the next expansion (especially if it's going to be the space one), and they couldn't do one like the "hero class" of WoW either, which would start at an high level hence reducing the costs, because then they would have problems ralated to the companions. Personally, I believe they will focus on consolidating the game as it is and if F2P ends up being successful, then we might see new, fully developed classes.

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No Star Wars-based RPG or FPS I'm aware of has let you play a droid as the primary player character. I'd love to see that change in a hypothetical SWTOR expansion or sequel. Who wouldn't want to play as an HK-series assassin droid or an inexplicably well-armed astromech?

I'm with SillyDan! It would be easy to have a droid/droid mirror class. The story line could be an assassin droid masquerading as a protocol droid or something...

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All these ideas are well and good but we have to consider what we currently have as well as the existing mechanics of the game.

 

So, with that in mind, my opinion is this:

- a "Force user" of any kind would be redundant. We have the Jedi and the Sith represented as fully as possible at this point.

- a pet class (like the Hunter in WoW, just for example) is not a bad idea but we have to consider the fact that the companion system kind of makes pets obsolete - a lot of the classes already send their NPC ally to fight on the front lines while they go "pew-pew!" from afar.

- a droid class. A cool idea but since we're all getting HK-51 as a companion I don't know how valueable it is. Also, how different could the gameplay be from the current Bounty Hunter/Trooper and the Agent/Smuggler classes? There is only so much you can do with a character that relies on gadgets and guns without falling into their (already established) categories. Just putting a "robot skin" on isn't enough.

- a "noble" class centered around political intrigue is an awesome idea. It could make for a cool story, especially with SWTOR's conversation system. However! How would such a class fare in combat (and let's not kid ourselves, combat is 98 % of what we do in the game)? A noble is not a soldier/fighter type, so it has to be a ranged class that doesn't have military-grade heavy armor but instead would rely on shooting enemies from afar, preferrably from cover, and maybe he/she could throw in a heal or two. In other words, an Agent/Smuggler type put into a story with political intrigue.

 

I think that BioWare has chosen/designed the classes all too well. There is really not much you could add there. To be honest, if they add something new in expansions, I'd prefer it to be more diverse character creation species (go Nautolan! go Togruta!) and continuation of the storylines of the existing classes.

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I do think that adding playable droids is a bad idea - a recurring debate in Star Wars is droids as lifeforms. Even Jedi do not seem to consider seemingly sapient droids to be truly "alive".

 

Having them as playable characters sort of necessitates an in-story acceptance of droids as "real people" which just takes away a big chunk of the potential of things like Directive Seven and any other "Droid Rights" story.

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I do think that adding playable droids is a bad idea - a recurring debate in Star Wars is droids as lifeforms. Even Jedi do not seem to consider seemingly sapient droids to be truly "alive".

 

Having them as playable characters sort of necessitates an in-story acceptance of droids as "real people" which just takes away a big chunk of the potential of things like Directive Seven and any other "Droid Rights" story.

 

Have to agree here. Even droids that have avoided routine memory wipes and gotten to the point of seemingly being 'real" or human-like, see SCORPIO, are still droids none the less and subject to the many pitfalls of being a droid. SCORPIO for all her potential BAMFery is still kept on a leash/controlled by restraining codes if you choose and there isn't jack all she can do about it.

 

Not to mention in PvP you guys rolling droids would spend a vast majority of time perma-CCed, with occasional resolve breaks, by SWs,JKs,IAs and Smugglers. BW would have to fundamentally redesign the droid CC or rework all abilities to function one way in PvP and another in PvE;seems like a lot of work for one class that won't even work with the romance sidestory for companions(which as unimportant as it may be, is something BW prides itself on and is known for).

 

I have been a fan of the Imperial Guard class idea for a while now and would like to see it implemented in some fashion.

Edited by Temeluchus
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Well, the already-existing classes are based on archetypes from the movies and previous expanded universe. The bounty hunter is based off of Boba and Jango Fett, the Inquisitor baed of off Palpatine and Dooku, the smuggler based off Han Solo, etc...

 

To me, it seems like there aren't many archetypes left from the movies. But! There are some from Old Republic in general that Bioware hasn't used as a class yet, and that's the Mandalorians and the Echani.

 

The Mandalorians and the Echani are rivals - exact opposites - yet they share values of honor and individual prowess. The Mandos, as we know, are mostly Empire-aligned, and the Echani from KOTOR2 are more partial to the ideals of the Republic. The reemergence of the Echani, and the conflict between the Echani and the Mandolorians, would be a solid ground for an expansion.

 

They both show skill in close combat, and even unarmed combat, so I'm thinking they would be good melee classes )this would also allow the Mandolorian to be even more different from the bounty hunter class) Here's something along the lines of what I'm thinking, as far as class and subclasses go:

 

EMPIRE CLASS - Mandalorian Raider

subclass - Mandalorian Gladiator (tank/dps) - uses heavy armor and large melee weapons, like the axe Mandalore uses in KOTOR2.

subclass - Mandalorian Scout (dps/healer) - uses light armor and a vibrosword.

 

REPUBLIC CLASS - Echani Monk (look the Echani up on Wookiepedia to learn more about them!)

subclass - Echani Sun Guard (tank/dps) the mirror of the Mandolorian Gladiator; uses heavy armor and double-bladed vibroswords.

subclass - Echani Duelist (dps/healer) mirror of the Mandolorian Scout;; uses light armor and fist weapons (since the echani excel in unarmed combat so well)

Edited by Misterlizard
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Well, the already-existing classes are based on archetypes from the movies and previous expanded universe. The bounty hunter is based off of Boba and Jango Fett, the Inquisitor baed of off Palpatine and Dooku, the smuggler based off Han Solo, etc...

 

To me, it seems like there aren't many archetypes left from the movies. But! There are some from Old Republic in general that Bioware hasn't used as a class yet, and that's the Mandalorians and the Echani.

 

The Mandalorians and the Echani are rivals - exact opposites - yet they share values of honor and individual prowess. The Mandos, as we know, are mostly Empire-aligned, and the Echani from KOTOR2 are more partial to the ideals of the Republic. The reemergence of the Echani, and the conflict between the Echani and the Mandolorians, would be a solid ground for an expansion.

 

They both show skill in close combat, and even unarmed combat, so I'm thinking they would be good melee classes )this would also allow the Mandolorian to be even more different from the bounty hunter class) Here's something along the lines of what I'm thinking, as far as class and subclasses go:

 

EMPIRE CLASS - Mandalorian Raider

subclass - Mandalorian Gladiator (tank/dps) - uses heavy armor and large melee weapons, like the axe Mandalore uses in KOTOR2.

subclass - Mandalorian Scout (dps/healer) - uses light armor and a vibrosword.

 

REPUBLIC CLASS - Echani Monk (look the Echani up on Wookiepedia to learn more about them!)

subclass - Echani Sun Guard (tank/dps) the mirror of the Mandolorian Gladiator; uses heavy armor and double-bladed vibroswords.

subclass - Echani Duelist (dps/healer) mirror of the Mandolorian Scout;; uses light armor and fist weapons (since the echani excel in unarmed combat so well)

 

I feel like the Mandalorian would be too similar to the bounty hunter, although it would be cool and represent a new oppurtunity for story. Personally in the next expansion I'd rather see them do alot more with space ships than add largely unnecessary classes. I love space combat in general, and I think alot of people can agree it's somewhat lacking. The ships are cool and all, but there really isnt a whole lot to do with em that doesnt get repetitive.

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I would like to see Yuuzhan Vong Empire.

Or maybe Black Sun/Hutt empire. Think there would be quiet a few number of classes in criminal organization of black sun. Crime lord as dps, bodyguards as tanks, hitman as range dps.

 

I don't see the reason why there should be new stat in the game. Since every class has its equivalent on the other side. Why not make third party with same stats?

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I would like to see Yuuzhan Vong Empire.

Or maybe Black Sun/Hutt empire. Think there would be quiet a few number of classes in criminal organization of black sun. Crime lord as dps, bodyguards as tanks, hitman as range dps.

 

I don't see the reason why there should be new stat in the game. Since every class has its equivalent on the other side. Why not make third party with same stats?

 

Wrong time period for the Vong, except for a rather obscure quasi reference from the original KOTOR games, they don't belong in the Old Republic and some serious retconning would have to ensue to explain their appearance.

 

EMPIRE CLASS - Mandalorian Raider

subclass - Mandalorian Gladiator (tank/dps) - uses heavy armor and large melee weapons, like the axe Mandalore uses in KOTOR2.

subclass - Mandalorian Scout (dps/healer) - uses light armor and a vibrosword.

 

REPUBLIC CLASS - Echani Monk (look the Echani up on Wookiepedia to learn more about them!)

subclass - Echani Sun Guard (tank/dps) the mirror of the Mandolorian Gladiator; uses heavy armor and double-bladed vibroswords.

subclass - Echani Duelist (dps/healer) mirror of the Mandolorian Scout;; uses light armor and fist weapons (since the echani excel in unarmed combat so well)

 

The Mandalorian would feel way too much like a BH except with melee weapons. I like the Echani idea, but you'd have to be careful with the Echani Sun Guard name since they eventually became enemies of the Echani from the other Echani planets, served Darth Plagueis and are the progentiors to Palpatine's Imperial Guard.

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I read the topic and made a little thinking of my own, and I would like to offer my conclusions to you. Not really a full-thought project, just a draft, but still...

(NB : English is not my first language, so please be kind toward any mistake or unclarity I shall commit... :()

 

As Losdia said in the OP, most roles are already covered. Except for maybe unarmed and non-lightsaber melee (some said Teras Kasi, others think of Echani or Mandalorians...) ; some kind of creature/droid handler (but which would need a specific companion-system different from other classes) ; and a primary buff/debuff role - that's the last which inspired my musing.

 

Yes, it's a more group-oriented gameplay ; but, not necessarily more than a full healer, and since there are companions to accompany the player, that's not completely solo-unfriendly. Moreover, I think adding more classes would target essentially old players, maybe even require some kind of unlock (legacy, or cartel market) ; then classes demanding more skill are not out of the question.

 

Now, for the mechanic of the class, some people (JacksonMo in this precise topic) stressed the issue of the four primary stat. Well, creating a fifth seems unlikely, but that does not mean we have to choose one of the four existent to our new class.

Let's imagine : at first, since this class would be the most fragile solo-wise, levelling would concentrate mainly on rising endurance. Then, at specialisation, each AC tree's special powers will benefit from a secondary stat, gained from stuff.

As for Advanced Class, I think this could be a class without DPS spec : all classic classes have a DPS spec, and as I said before, this class target more advanced gameplays. So I will be seeing, for instance : as the common tree, passive abilities benefiting self-preservation : personnal shield, evasion tactics, aggro removers, etc. Then, each advanced class would have its own buff/debuff spec tree - one more "buff", the other more "debuff". Finally, one of the spec would have a tank/debuff tree, the other, a heal/buff tree. To continue with my idea of primary stat adapted to specialisation, let's say the tank tree would benefit from strength, the heal tree from willpower , the debuff tree from aim, and the buff tree from cunning.

 

Now, for the aspect and lore of the class, I think cannot avoid doing, some day or another, the very famous Imperial Guard. The buff/debuff mechanic could be defended story-wise by a strong "band of brother" spirit among the Imperial Guards, and that's a way to differentiate the class from the Republic Soldier.

 

As for the republic side, I rather agree with Galandro that the Leia/Padme archetype is not really represented by the IA, and a senate/political class would be interessant. The buff/debuff mechanic would be justified by their charismatic point of view, based on democratic principles. I would call thme "nobles" though, as TOR classes all have a the name of a profession ; senate councillor, or some senator's aid, would be better - which does not forbid to mad the story-class rooted in a noble background, just in the same fashion as

the Sith Inquisitor begins as a slave...

 

 

Lastly, this doesn't necessary need new beginning planets : for instance, they could just add a zone to capital planets (Coruscant and Dromund Kaas), in the same fashion the added a HL zone to Corellia, and this would be fine story-wise for the classes I depicted...

Edited by DarkPara
hidding slight spoiler
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Not to mention in PvP you guys rolling droids would spend a vast majority of time perma-CCed, with occasional resolve breaks, by SWs,JKs,IAs and Smugglers. BW would have to fundamentally redesign the droid CC or rework all abilities to function one way in PvP and another in PvE;seems like a lot of work for one class that won't even work with the romance sidestory for companions(which as unimportant as it may be, is something BW prides itself on and is known for).

 

Surely they could give PC droids some sort of passive ability (call it Shielded Circuits?) which would resist...whatever affects you're talking about (I don't do PvP and my highest level character is lvl 23, so I'm not 100% certain here.)

 

I suppose game-play wise, a battle droid would work very much like a Trooper (ranged weapons, heavy armour, no Force), and putting romance into the story could only result in silliness, but I'd still be amused. Might even resub after the game goes f2p. :D

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