I know this concept has been brought up before- but what would it take to actually introduce an actual trauma mechanic to this game that would act as a counter to the runaway healing I witness in PVP? When a moderately-skilled DPS (say Fury Marauder or Lightning Sorc) can average about 4 mil damage in a warzone and the average op/merc healer can average 5-6 mil heals, the numbers don't even out. And we all know how hard it is to get any randoms in regs to hard-swap when necessary.

I'm not saying healing itself needs to be debuffed or nerfed- but the healers in this game have got to have a counterpoint. And instead of hobbling the healers ad nauseam, it would be valuable to add a debuff that could be applied by DPS players.

Please, comment. Am I barking up the right tree here?

As already stated, if HPS is never greater than DPS, then there's no point in bringing a healer at all.

The real problem is the massive proportion of unskilled DPS in the game.

I know this concept has been brought up before- but what would it take to actually introduce an actual trauma mechanic to this game that would act as a counter to the runaway healing I witness in PVP? When a moderately-skilled DPS (say Fury Marauder or Lightning Sorc) can average about 4 mil damage in a warzone and the average op/merc healer can average 5-6 mil heals, the numbers don't even out. And we all know how hard it is to get any randoms in regs to hard-swap when necessary.

 

I'm not saying healing itself needs to be debuffed or nerfed- but the healers in this game have got to have a counterpoint. And instead of hobbling the healers ad nauseam, it would be valuable to add a debuff that could be applied by DPS players.

 

Please, comment. Am I barking up the right tree here?

I play a merc and OP healer in reg PvP (still gearing). I assume you've been having trouble taking down healers solo. It's true I can typically out heal a single DPS and sometimes even continue to heal the team while being focused. However in most cases I have to focus on self heals to survive, so am effectively countered even if the DPS will never kill me.

Plus if the DPS is persistent enough I am going to run through all my DcDs and deplete my resource. That's when they'll eventually be able to burn me down. A single DPS can still act as a counter point and once you get two or three, the healer will be 100 percent locked, and unable heal the team.

When it comes to healing other people my HPS doesn't come close to keeping up with someone being focused by more than one good dps. I think that's why you hear complaints about healing being in a bad place. In an arena if the other team can ignore the healer completely, by focusing DPS one by one instead, then the healer because a moot class. Numbers might seem high at the end if the match, but if those numbers don't translate into players being saved, then it doesn't really matter.

As already stated, if HPS is never greater than DPS, then there's no point in bringing a healer at all.

 

The real problem is the massive proportion of unskilled DPS in the game.

This as un-true today as it has ever been… `In a galaxy far, far away….´ ,

HPS is mathematically as liable and equal to when calculating TTK.

If Healing is 70% as Efficient as DMG, the TTK is extended by 43%..

Let's talk math. If a healer can't keep himself up against 1 dps, how is he supposed to support an entire 4/8 man team?

/delete indeed

I've never understood the focus on HPS vs DPS. Well, I guess they are easy to measure, but it seems to me they are so far from telling the real story that it's ridiculous. If we talk just HPS and DPS, then its pretty simple to compute that if HPS == DPS, then one healer is worth exactly one DPS. If HPS > DPS, then one healer is worth more than 1 DPS (and then you might ask "why bring a DSP then!? just bring all healers and let the acid decide!"). And if HPS < DPS, then right, why bring a healer?

But actual TTK seems so much more dependent on other things... defensive cool downs, self healing, LOS-ing, interrupts, CC application, burst heal vs. burst damage. Just seems like HPS is only a part of the issue... if there is an issue at all.

Personally, I believe the issue is probably "ltp", much as I hate that answer. I base this on my experience as a jugger tank. I just got into 75s again, and it can be night and day how much I survive on my own. I've held off 4 DPS around a door in voidstar and basically never died because my cooldowns and self healing and CC could keep up with damage they did. And then the next game I try that against 4 different DPS and I melt. I don't think that it's me that suddenly got way better or way worse... I suspect it's the same for healers.

Let's talk math. If a healer can't keep himself up against 1 dps, how is he supposed to support an entire 4/8 man team?

 

/delete indeed

rofl nice point.

I'm still confused, do people actually think that a healer should equal more than 1 player?

With things like cc (push, pull, knockback) guard, taunt, and DCDs .... why the hell would HPS be equal to DPS? Much less even more than DPS! Wow! Insanity!

A healer isn't godmode, they should die if a DPS player gets on them and their team ignores it. Heals should be a support, not godmode.

Seeing as the "ideal" team has one healer for 2 dps and a tank, yes, by very definition he must be able to out heal one dps whacking on him. Otherwise how is he supposed to be able to heal himself while also keeping his tank up, while also healing every dps on his team? As you say, healers exist to support their team.

If they cant keep themselves up, they cant support the team?

I know this concept has been brought up before- but what would it take to actually introduce an actual trauma mechanic to this game that would act as a counter to the runaway healing I witness in PVP? When a moderately-skilled DPS (say Fury Marauder or Lightning Sorc) can average about 4 mil damage in a warzone and the average op/merc healer can average 5-6 mil heals, the numbers don't even out. And we all know how hard it is to get any randoms in regs to hard-swap when necessary.

 

I'm not saying healing itself needs to be debuffed or nerfed- but the healers in this game have got to have a counterpoint. And instead of hobbling the healers ad nauseam, it would be valuable to add a debuff that could be applied by DPS players.

 

Please, comment. Am I barking up the right tree here?

Snipers and Marauders can apply trauma already. I think Assassin with some set bonus/tactical can apply it as well

Problem is that Shatter Shot (for sniper) and Crippling Slash (for marauder) deals very low damage and costs some resources and GCD, so its not used mostly

Seeing as the "ideal" team has one healer for 2 dps and a tank, yes, by very definition he must be able to out heal one dps whacking on him. Otherwise how is he supposed to be able to heal himself while also keeping his tank up, while also healing every dps on his team? As you say, healers exist to support their team.

 

If they cant keep themselves up, they cant support the team?

I think this is oversimplified and very misleading. Team composition and fights are more dynamic than just throwing HPS and DPS into an algorithm.

Tanks mitigate damage, often by more than 50% through guards and taunts. The healer is typically the benefit of this mitigation. By your logic, a healer and tank should be able to hold off 4 DPS - with little to no effort, and room to spare. The tank is what allows the healer to survive 2 DPS in your example. Why would you even assume all the responsibility falls on the healer? Additionally, wouldn't every tank/heal match essentially end in a stalemate according to your reasoning?

DPS should most often be applying damage every second, but there's so much more to it than that. People on these forums often focus on JUST HPS and DPS, but we are not dummy parsing or trying to take down a boss on a timer in this scenario.

In PvE, the tank will typically hold aggro and only minor damage will fall on the DPS - greatly reducing the need to 'heal everyone at once', or whatever fallacy everyone here keeps clinging to. In PvP, it is not so black and white. Your implication is that healing far beyond what is needed in endgame PvE content is the bare minimum for PvP, and you are wrong.

Fights against other humans are more complex, and shouldnt even be dumbed down to this level of false equivalency.

I think I'm smart too, so maybe I can say /delete or whatever.

My point was actually going against the concept of simple number equivalency. Thats kind of the point, that it's sort of dumb to think that one healer should have the same hps as 1 dps does damage.

I leave the details up to BW. But if a healer cant heal himself, much less anyone else, why bother bringing a healer?

 

In PvE, the tank will typically hold aggro and only minor damage will fall on the DPS - greatly reducing the need to 'heal everyone at once', or whatever fallacy everyone here keeps clinging to.

PVE is more than hammer station. Raid wide damage where everyone loses massive hit points can, and does, happen.

Whatever your issue is with heals in pvp (and you really shouldn't have one) needs to be kept away from screwing with PVE. Heals were nerfed pretty strongly already in 6.0 since for level 75 content dps and hitpoints increased roughtly 200%, while heals increased roughly 150%.

What you should be doing is nerfing all those dps self-heals. At the very least stop giving dps medals for hitting a dcd self-heal ability.

I know this concept has been brought up before- but what would it take to actually introduce an actual trauma mechanic to this game that would act as a counter to the runaway healing I witness in PVP? When a moderately-skilled DPS (say Fury Marauder or Lightning Sorc) can average about 4 mil damage in a warzone and the average op/merc healer can average 5-6 mil heals, the numbers don't even out. And we all know how hard it is to get any randoms in regs to hard-swap when necessary.

 

I'm not saying healing itself needs to be debuffed or nerfed- but the healers in this game have got to have a counterpoint. And instead of hobbling the healers ad nauseam, it would be valuable to add a debuff that could be applied by DPS players.

 

Please, comment. Am I barking up the right tree here?

you not a dog so you cant bark

PVE is more than hammer station. Raid wide damage where everyone loses massive hit points can, and does, happen.

 

Whatever your issue is with heals in pvp (and you really shouldn't have one) needs to be kept away from screwing with PVE. Heals were nerfed pretty strongly already in 6.0 since for level 75 content dps and hitpoints increased roughtly 200%, while heals increased roughly 150%.

 

What you should be doing is nerfing all those dps self-heals. At the very least stop giving dps medals for hitting a dcd self-heal ability.

DPS with selfheals got hit hard by 6.0. Mercs, sorcs and juggernauts survivalabillity has lowered a lot (compared to 5.10)

I don`t know about opers, not playing them, but I heard Lethality suffers from this issue as well

PVE is more than hammer station. Raid wide damage where everyone loses massive hit points can, and does, happen.

 

Whatever your issue is with heals in pvp (and you really shouldn't have one) needs to be kept away from screwing with PVE. Heals were nerfed pretty strongly already in 6.0 since for level 75 content dps and hitpoints increased roughtly 200%, while heals increased roughly 150%.

 

What you should be doing is nerfing all those dps self-heals. At the very least stop giving dps medals for hitting a dcd self-heal ability.

Nah, it's not the plethora of DCDs in the game, huge speed boosts DPS get etc. etc. It's HPS being too high. It just shows you, how people of a certain mentality do not change even when they are conceded to.

The DPS crowd got what they wanted, a buff to burst, and HPS lowered. You sad, pathetic incompetent players got what you wanted, HPS has been nerfed substantially with 6.0!

Yet here we are months later having people cry and whine about heals?

I don't think BW did it on purpose I think they are so incompetent it just happened that way in 6.0 tbh. That being said, as noted above all the bull **** DCDs that heal your precious DPS ought to be removed first before HPS are nerfed again.

TL;DR

Stop making DPS brain dead by giving them massive DCDs that overlap and actually reduce the necessity of healers in PVP.

Why cater to this group of anti-social players anyway, if it's ever a niche group of PVPers whining about anything it's always pure DPS players. Just **** and play the game already and L2P.

At this point, if you struggle against healers it's purely a L2P issue nothing else. Stop looking for blame why you fail in PVP so miserably, instead look in the mirror not at healers.

HPS is still higher than DPS. Do we really want a game where everyone is playing godmode healer and noone ever dies?

The only time no one dies is when the DPS are awful and can't play. That's it.

Right now, in PVP there are far more DPS capable of putting out 10k or more in WZs, while for healers not so many whether it's due to class gimping in 6.0, and/or players simply incapable of putting out better HPS. I don't really see how anyone comes to the conclusion heals are stronger now than DPS in general in 6.0.

I play heals and DPS btw, extensively and I can say for a fact the healers I play are far more easy to tamp down and kill than ever before as a DPS, especially sorcs.

Right now, when I am on my DPS merc I can completely nullify a sorc healer; within seconds they are going to be running for LOS or crying to their team to peel me off them. And I am average, average at best on DPS mercs.

Truth is I'd be pretty afraid to run into mercs like Hop or Zachariah who used to play, even on my merc healer the burst when tunneled is pretty intense and I am sure those guys could really pour out some serious damage.

Thing is, there's stronger burst classes than mercs! I just play merc because I like ranged more than playing melee and I always enjoyed mercs and sorcs the best. Right now, I'd rather face a merc over ling sorcs, PTs, Ops, or sin DPS, all of these are operating at higher levels than DPS mercs now, so imagine what average players are doing on those classes when doing DPS?

Yesterday, I was fighting against a PT and sin that were tunneling me pretty good and I really had to use my DCDs smartly to not get blown up in seconds their burst was simply unbelievable. A few times there was just nothing I could do, if my DCDs were down, or I was off by a split second they were able to coordinate stuns and burst me down amazingly fast.

So, I guess we are just going to have to disagree on who is overtuned more, heals or DPS in this 6.0 meta. I'd say DPS are easily the stronger of the two.

the op cant be more wrong...

just compare ttk to tth for 6.5 mil

http://parsely.io/parser/healer-leaderboard/1

http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard

the ttk is almost 100 sec shorter than the tth....

The only time no one dies is when the DPS are awful and can't play. That's it.

See you found the real problem! The majority of players on dps are awful, but they're not really awful, everyone else is just too good.