TL;DR: blended access business models are here to stay in MMOs, because they have consistently proven successful in the MMO market for close to a decade now. Crying about it won't change it, nor will attacking alleged boogey-men either.

However, SWTOR's model is not working. They are bleeding people in gushes. They were being greedy and still are. Every other MMO I play, and I play several MMOs, give the subs something extra each month but allow the free players access to ALL content, even if it's in a DLC. Create a permanent OPs pass and put it on the market for 20.00. Do the same with PvP. FPs should be open for everyone without needing a pass. But you know what? We've been telling EA/BW this for a damn long time and it hasn't changed and never will. There's a reason EA won't spend money on the game and is milking it for everything they can before they shut it down. This game needs sweeping changes that are not going to happen.

Sincere question Jeweldleah... if you genuinely feel this way...... why would you continue to do business with a company you have so little trust and respect for?

 

I get that you feel voices create change... but while that is true to some extent regarding important social issues... it is a fantasy in the context of things like video games which most players consume until they are out of food and then move on.

 

Personally, I think they have the business model tuned about right with this MMO. I do feel they need to add back weekly passes and other consumables from the CM that allow players a wide range of a la carte choices other then a subscription. Their removal of passes was a mistake in my view (the studio may disagree of course), but I do see why they did it when they did... but it is time to go back to the way it was AND add other unlocks and passes as well.

you may notice a large break in my posting history. that would be becasue I did in fact stop doing business with this company, at least when it comes to this specific game. 7 day referral passes ARE a thing that exists and I wanted to see if anything has changed for the better enough to stay longer then that. why do that at all? for the same reason one might visit a restaurant they used to love, but stopped patronizing for a time becasue the quality started to slip. to see if they have fixed the problems or continued to slide downward.

it is your opinion that they got the model about right and you are entitled to it. my opinion is different. (although its kinda funny that you claim that its about right, while in the same breath basically saying that they need to adjust it fairly significantly by adding passes and more unlocks) especially having played other competitive MMO's in a meantime. "its the only star wars mmo available" will only get you so far.

and from a business perspective, it honestly feels a lot like the way they treated Warhammer 40, when it didn't do as well as they wanted it to.

and yes treatment of non subscriber population is part of that. reminder. this game originally went f2p becasue it could not maintain the player base it needed with a subscription only model.

to be fair. all of the above is a small part of the issue. but it IS still part of it. ah well.

edited. P.S. I'm perfectly willing to pay when content is worth paying for. and even though I have all the possible unlocks on my account - got them for credits, back when this game didn't have severe inflation it has right now, I actualy ended up either staying subscribed, or just not playing at all.

that said... and therein lays an irony. if I wanted to play solo portions of this game? I don't need a subscription. at this point I don't need it for the story, OR housing. there is nothing here to incentivize someone like me to subscribe. THAT is as much of a problem as the fact that subscription mainly exists as means to remove restrictions rather then a genuine premium service that comes with cool extra perks.

However, SWTOR's model is not working. They are bleeding people in gushes. They were being greedy and still are. Every other MMO I play, and I play several MMOs, give the subs something extra each month but allow the free players access to ALL content, even if it's in a DLC. Create a permanent OPs pass and put it on the market for 20.00. Do the same with PvP. FPs should be open for everyone without needing a pass. But you know what? We've been telling EA/BW this for a damn long time and it hasn't changed and never will. There's a reason EA won't spend money on the game and is milking it for everything they can before they shut it down. This game needs sweeping changes that are not going to happen.

In WoW you can play for free only till level 20. In those levels you cant even experience half of the content that game has. As a free player there you have a very restricted chat option. Without subscription you cant raid there. And if you want to experience the latest content there besides subbing you need to buy the actual expansion, because without it you will not be able to experience : current raids and dungeons in the game, its story and get to the max level with your character at which most players in that game do PvP.

Atm in SWTOR you can get the best part of the game totally for free without paying a dime and those are all those class storylines. You can do as many flashpoints as you wish without an subscription. You can bypass the limit for warzones if you sign for them with a group. And you can get the latest expansion story arc unlocked permanently for a just one month of subbing. So compared to Blizzard I think how BW is to generous towards the free players.

However, SWTOR's model is not working. They are bleeding people in gushes. They were being greedy and still are. Every other MMO I play, and I play several MMOs, give the subs something extra each month but allow the free players access to ALL content, even if it's in a DLC. Create a permanent OPs pass and put it on the market for 20.00. Do the same with PvP. FPs should be open for everyone without needing a pass. But you know what? We've been telling EA/BW this for a damn long time and it hasn't changed and never will. There's a reason EA won't spend money on the game and is milking it for everything they can before they shut it down. This game needs sweeping changes that are not going to happen.

I feel compelled to disagree with elements of your reasoning.

There's a factual error: non-subscribers can, right now, play all the FPs they want. The "pass" situation for non-subs and FPs refers simply to boss loot rolls.

But I think that, while the game clearly has problems, the subscription model is by no means the most important or most damaging of them. Think about these, instead:

* Story content drought. No, I'm not saying that there has been *no* new content, merely that there has been much less than there should have been. That causes people to leave because they want new things to do.

* FP/Op/Up content drought. Same thing.

* Warzone / GSF map drought. People are bored of always doing the same ones again and again.

* Lack of fixes for long-standing (and repeatedly-reported) bugs, and new bugs that break things that used to work. That gives an impression that the studio doesn't care about the game and/or its quality, even if that isn't objectively true.

When I stack the business model up against those things, I see (it's a teeny bit subjective, perhaps) that it is far less important to the malaise that's afflicting the game. It's not irrelevant, and *should* be looked at, but it's not really very important compared to those things.

DISCLAIMER: the above is my opinion.

However, SWTOR's model is not working. They are bleeding people in gushes. They were being greedy and still are. Every other MMO I play, and I play several MMOs, give the subs something extra each month but allow the free players access to ALL content, even if it's in a DLC. Create a permanent OPs pass and put it on the market for 20.00. Do the same with PvP. FPs should be open for everyone without needing a pass. But you know what? We've been telling EA/BW this for a damn long time and it hasn't changed and never will. There's a reason EA won't spend money on the game and is milking it for everything they can before they shut it down. This game needs sweeping changes that are not going to happen.

EVERY MMO? You can't be serious! Take TESO, for example - it's BTP, and not a single DLC is free - you have to get them separately. In GW2 - you have to buy DLC and do not have access to something you did not buy. LOTRO - subs are all good, but even they have to pay for DLC.

What MMOs do you play, that they are free and handing all content - old and new - to every player?

SWTOR gave for free the main attraction (and the most expensive part) of the game - the story. The rest you can still have but with some limitations, that are cheaper to get rid of than in most of the games I know of. Truly there can not be enough of free stuff out there!

I feel compelled to disagree with elements of your reasoning.

 

There's a factual error: non-subscribers can, right now, play all the FPs they want. The "pass" situation for non-subs and FPs refers simply to boss loot rolls.

 

But I think that, while the game clearly has problems, the subscription model is by no means the most important or most damaging of them. Think about these, instead:

* Story content drought. No, I'm not saying that there has been *no* new content, merely that there has been much less than there should have been. That causes people to leave because they want new things to do.

* FP/Op/Up content drought. Same thing.

* Warzone / GSF map drought. People are bored of always doing the same ones again and again.

* Lack of fixes for long-standing (and repeatedly-reported) bugs, and new bugs that break things that used to work. That gives an impression that the studio doesn't care about the game and/or its quality, even if that isn't objectively true.

 

When I stack the business model up against those things, I see (it's a teeny bit subjective, perhaps) that it is far less important to the malaise that's afflicting the game. It's not irrelevant, and *should* be looked at, but it's not really very important compared to those things.

 

DISCLAIMER: the above is my opinion.

^ great post.. and I agree with your opinion.

EVERY MMO? You can't be serious! Take TESO, for example - it's BTP, and not a single DLC is free - you have to get them separately. In GW2 - you have to buy DLC and do not have access to something you did not buy. LOTRO - subs are all good, but even they have to pay for DLC.

What MMOs do you play, that they are free and handing all content - old and new - to every player?

 

SWTOR gave for free the main attraction (and the most expensive part) of the game - the story. The rest you can still have but with some limitations, that are cheaper to get rid of than in most of the games I know of. Truly there can not be enough of free stuff out there!

^ Indeed.

In WoW you can play for free only till level 20. In those levels you cant even experience half of the content that game has. As a free player there you have a very restricted chat option. Without subscription you cant raid there. And if you want to experience the latest content there besides subbing you need to buy the actual expansion, because without it you will not be able to experience : current raids and dungeons in the game, its story and get to the max level with your character at which most players in that game do PvP.

 

Atm in SWTOR you can get the best part of the game totally for free without paying a dime and those are all those class storylines. You can do as many flashpoints as you wish without an subscription. You can bypass the limit for warzones if you sign for them with a group. And you can get the latest expansion story arc unlocked permanently for a just one month of subbing. So compared to Blizzard I think how BW is to generous towards the free players.

^ Accurate assessment, in my view.

EVERY MMO? You can't be serious! Take TESO, for example - it's BTP, and not a single DLC is free - you have to get them separately. In GW2 - you have to buy DLC and do not have access to something you did not buy. LOTRO - subs are all good, but even they have to pay for DLC.

What MMOs do you play, that they are free and handing all content - old and new - to every player?

 

SWTOR gave for free the main attraction (and the most expensive part) of the game - the story. The rest you can still have but with some limitations, that are cheaper to get rid of than in most of the games I know of. Truly there can not be enough of free stuff out there!

The way I see it, is swtor gave too much away for free and set the expectations too high. All those other games limit how much free stuff players get, but Bioware basically “gave away the farm” instead of the excess milk.

People got use to having it all free, if it only meant waiting a few months for the shine to rub off the expansions.

The small saving grace was the paid passes that some people purchased. Although Im not sure why people even did it, when they cost more than a sub if you got more than two in a month. The point is, there were silly people out there willing to buy these passes in leiu of a sub. Bioware were nearly making the same amount of money form those people as they would if they’d subbed. But these people were only ever going to continue buying these passes if they had access to “all the other” free access stuff they’d gotten used to. So when Bioware effectively locked these people out of end game CXP with 5.0 and removed passes for pvp and some other things, they alienated those F2P/preferred players. Bioware set the expectations of how their F2P was going to operate for 3 years, then changed it so the system didn’t live up the expectations those player had come to rely on. That has driven some of those players away from the game. I can’t even guess how many.

It seems with the launch of 5.0 and all through last year’s painful debacle, Bioware went out of their way to piss off every part of the population in someway or other. Restricting F2P totally from CXP and removing passes is just another one of those things they did to unintentionally sabotage themselves or shoot themsleves in the foot.

I don’t believe in non subs getting stuff for free, but when you set that expectation for many years, removing it will have a negative affect on the game.

What Bioware could do is add those old passes back in and also add new ones to allow people to acquire CXP gear and then use it. At least they would still get some money and F2P will feel like they have a choice.

I resubbed recently and before that i had a chance to play the f2p version. It is abysmal. Paying for quickslots is straight up pay2win. You get nickled and dimed at every corner, no wonder people hate it. I find it funny how the people in here try to restrict them even further in the twisted notion that somehow this will force them to subscribe. It won't work. The only way to make more money is to open the floodgates and hope that a good chunk will pay for a sub. Speaking of wich the sub is the bare minimum: access to all playable content and no outlandish restrictions.

Cartel market items should be all free for subs! If you sub you should have access to ALL the game's features because your sub payed to create them in the first place. The cash shop sucks up valuable def time that you could be spending on content. Whales and EA ruined this game. People will stay away from such a model on principle alone.

Give people access to the forums for gods sake. I don't want to know how many potential subs you alienated with your elitist attitude and how much valuable feedback is prevented here. Forums are a part of what keeps communities alive. You are no WoW who can get away with it, because their community is basically a big ********** (see Blizzcon). EA isn't Blizzard.

Do more events. XP events, sales, gifts and whatnot. There is no word to mouth. Swtor is out of the public consciousness. At this point you should be firing from every cannon.

At last but not least i have noticed that decade old bugs are still in the game. If i had any part in this game i'd be embarrassed to see this. There are blatantly obvious ones like double Risha in cutscenes and more subtle ones as the missing BH legacy weapon. The point is people will notice the lazyness. It is subtle things like this that can annoy the player to the point of hating the game. After nearly a decade the game is still unpolished.

I resubbed recently and before that i had a chance to play the f2p version. It is abysmal. Paying for quickslots is straight up pay2win..

I pretty much stopped reading after this, you basically killed any point you were trying to make. One of the most ridiculous things I have read in a while on these forums, and that is saying alot.

Once they buy a 5 dollar item they become Preferred. So I would say F2P never did contribute much to the game since they never did 5 dollars at least.

Theirs more than one way to contribute to the game than financially, one Bioware seems to have forgotten- Interaction and community from the f2p and pref are helpful to the overall health of the game too, not as much as whales buying from the cartel market, but enough to warrant the reintroduction of passes imo.

The issue with F2P is that most F2P players never sub. Never. In any game. They ***** about wanting more access but in the end never sub.

The purpose of F2P is "try to buy". Not "try and never buy".

I think the way F2P are restricted now is fine. I doubt, if the whole game was available to them that they'd pay. So why do it? And don't give me this BS that you can't afford it. $15 a month is dirt cheap, Maybe, if you a kid.. I can see the affordablilty being an issue (assuming you could't get your parents to pay).

You want to play the game.. pay. You don't, then move on. But for god's sake, some complaining about F2P access.

The issue with F2P is that most F2P players never sub. Never. In any game. They ***** about wanting more access but in the end never sub.

 

The purpose of F2P is "try to buy". Not "try and never buy".

 

I think the way F2P are restricted now is fine. I doubt, if the whole game was available to them that they'd pay. So why do it? And don't give me this BS that you can't afford it. $15 a month is dirt cheap, Maybe, if you a kid.. I can see the affordablilty being an issue (assuming you could't get your parents to pay).

 

You want to play the game.. pay. You don't, then move on. But for god's sake, some complaining about F2P access.

Though any generalization will have corner cases to disprove it, I do largely agree with this assessment.

The issue with F2P is that most F2P players never sub. Never. In any game. They ***** about wanting more access but in the end never sub.

 

The purpose of F2P is "try to buy". Not "try and never buy".

 

I think the way F2P are restricted now is fine. I doubt, if the whole game was available to them that they'd pay. So why do it? And don't give me this BS that you can't afford it. $15 a month is dirt cheap, Maybe, if you a kid.. I can see the affordablilty being an issue (assuming you could't get your parents to pay).

 

You want to play the game.. pay. You don't, then move on. But for god's sake, some complaining about F2P access.

Personally, I think the current f2p access is really good, with the exception of locking quick bars out, because their essential to combat. It would be like only having a certain amount of inputs to play a FPs game, or a limited amount of key binds in a RTs, why is something so essential that's required to play locked behind a pay bar? I was trying to say that their also important, and to not exclude any part of the community... I... I know.. two messages in the OP probably wasn't the best idea.

The real restrictions that need to be lifted, or a separate route to circumvent them, are ones for preferred players, stuff like getting into ops, pvp passes, and CXP passes need to be brought back or implemented into the game. Their good for longevity of the game too, and keep in mind, everyone has a different life, $15 to you may seem like nothing, but when you have a severe disability and struggle to find work and have kids, it can be a hassle to obtain.

Preferred no longer pay for sub.

 

Preferred no longer have endgame access.

 

You want endgame you pay for endgame.

 

Seriously. This is a capitalist society. If you prefer to get everything free there are places for that. Try the game culture there.

You keep banging this broken drum, all the while ignoring the most important fact.

Namely that "end game" isn't good enough attract the number of Subscribers that both PvP and Ops require to keep them healthy.

The current model is failing - only someone who wants the game to fail would advocate ots continuance.

All The Best