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So what are the 'Weaknesses' of Type 1 and Type 2 scouts with regards to Satellites?


Warhams

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All these calls for bomber nerfs got me thinking. Who are the ones asking for them to be nerfed? Scout Pilots, however from all my experience in the game, type 1 Scouts (normal) and even more the type 2 Scouts (battle type) have no Glaring weaknesses at all.

 

They have Speed which is always useful, High Passive evasion which combined with speed allows them to dodge shots (some good pilots can totally avoid even railgun shots with jinking), best accelerated speed so they can set up or run away from fights, good systems that synergises well with any weapon system ( Targeting telemetry and Blaster overcharge) and finally useful shield abilities like Distortion shield which give them 6 seconds of 59% evasion or another chance at missle dodging.

 

Type 1 scouts have access to EMP field with actually shuts down a minefield and the bomber in the process.

 

However, the only weakness is Low HP and Shields. This obviously is a problem when scouts decide to take a stroll in a minefield of a bomber who can place and manually detonate mines and also leads to the very rare but occasional 1 shot from a Critical Slug railgun hit (usually takes 2 or a Ion rail before). But that's it.

 

For some time, there have been calls for mines to be nerfed because scout cannot 'deal' with them but lets hearken back to the days before bombers were introduced. Who dominated satellites then? Type 2 scouts and to a lesser extent type 1s as well. They got the speed to Rush them and hold them. Once capped, they can start hiding in the nook and crannies of the satellite until some brave soul decides to poke the dragon out of its lair. They usually get BLCed for their troubles.

 

So to counter? Easiest way to try is 2 gunships, 1 top and other bottom. Strikes with protons or HLCs also work but both ways are easily countered by the Scout rushing out to kill whoever is doing it before running back to the Sat. The hard counter is to send in your own battle scout but well, I'm sure people remember the days of scouts chasing each others tails round and round and round the satellite.

 

Obviously, usual reply is, use teamwork and different types of ships but in a 'normal' game where your not in a premade and most people only have 3 ships or 4 if lucky, the ship diversity is very limited. Trying to get them to work together to dig one scout out is just as hard.

 

Why did I bring this up? Well, all the tactics used to chasing a scout out of a node, also applies to the bombers. Yes bombers have a lot more HP and Shields so they take a lot more hits but if they decide to chase you or don't circle properly you can torpedo or missle them to death which you can't really do against scouts. From the current PTS post, Interdiction mines will now affect shields and not direct hull damage, fair enough but now it will allow Scouts (with no EMP or not shoot the mines first) to just Zoom in, 'tank' the mine damage and just wreck the bomber. BLC with blaster overcharge will melt bombers in 4 seconds, other weapon options will take abit longer but still fast.

 

If bomber mines are nerfed, what is there to prevent Scouts from dominating satellites again?

Edited by Warhams
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Scouts will still be vulnerable to mines. Seismic still does a lot and if some one is running concussion and has 2 of them out a scout better think twice before approaching that node. Heck the Interdicton mine is still going to be very deadly. That debuff slow is crippling. Not much will change here.

 

Other then that I think scouts are to strong in general, but mostly thats just 1 component I have talked about multiple times already so I dont want to sound like a broken record. Of course the problem is that component comes on a Gunship as well so "nerf it" isnt the best solution at least not with out compensating Gun ships some how.

Edited by tunewalker
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If bomber mines are nerfed, what is there to prevent Scouts from dominating satellites again?

 

 

Bombers of course, just because shield piercing was removed from interdiction mines does not make them automatic scout food. I had issues with bombers before people figured out the seismic + interdiction combo, the dumb bombers who sit still under node will die. The smart ones that move around and LOS will continue to dominate nodes.

 

Scouts are good at clearing nodes, but generally bad at holding them. A few shots taken and your in serious danger from a missile lock or a GS. The old standard always said that strikes were better for holding nodes than scouts, but I guess that is debatable. Scouts are more inclined to "interceptor" roles for enemies approaching nodes.

 

Scouts strengths and weaknesses are obvious. Speed, damage, weak hull, weak shield, high dependence on engine power / boost. What exactly has you confused? How does the reduction of some shield piercing on 1 mine threaten to destabilize the entire meta? its not DOOOOOOOOOOM time yet :D

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Bombers of course, just because shield piercing was removed from interdiction mines does not make them automatic scout food. I had issues with bombers before people figured out the seismic + interdiction combo, the dumb bombers who sit still under node will die. The smart ones that move around and LOS will continue to dominate nodes.

 

Scouts are good at clearing nodes, but generally bad at holding them. A few shots taken and your in serious danger from a missile lock or a GS. The old standard always said that strikes were better for holding nodes than scouts, but I guess that is debatable. Scouts are more inclined to "interceptor" roles for enemies approaching nodes.

 

Scouts strengths and weaknesses are obvious. Speed, damage, weak hull, weak shield, high dependence on engine power / boost. What exactly has you confused? How does the reduction of some shield piercing on 1 mine threaten to destabilize the entire meta? its not DOOOOOOOOOOM time yet :D

 

I largely agree with this. As a primarily scout flyer, I've found the few times I've taken a node without support is because it was left completely unattended. Most scout builds have a window of range that means the only really viable approach for them is to attack any sneaking bombers from below - and unless you take the bomber out in the first pass, it's very difficult to dislodge them without support - and you usually swallow a mine trying to do so.

 

A much better tactic as a scout flier (in my humble opinion) is to let someone else take the node while you advance forward and intercept any reinforcements, keeping the objective clear for your teammate to take, and the burst damage scouts are capable of actually works really well in this capacity.

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For some time, there have been calls for mines to be nerfed because scout cannot 'deal' with them but lets hearken back to the days before bombers were introduced. Who dominated satellites then? Type 2 scouts and to a lesser extent type 1s as well. They got the speed to Rush them and hold them. Once capped, they can start hiding in the nook and crannies of the satellite until some brave soul decides to poke the dragon out of its lair. They usually get BLCed for their troubles.

 

Arguably the only reason they had the endurance to hold a sat was because evasion was so broken they pretty much had 6 seconds of god mode and, if I recall right, had close to the same effective health as strikers once the impact of their passive evasion was calculated in. Also even back then sats tended to change hands rapidly so scouts couldn't lock down a sat the way bombers can today.

 

As a striker pilot I'm actually glad that the interdiction mine's shield penetration will be nerfed. As others noted that was an anti-strike mechanic, not an anti-scout mechanic.

 

EDIT:

A much better tactic as a scout flier (in my humble opinion) is to let someone else take the node while you advance forward and intercept any reinforcements, keeping the objective clear for your teammate to take, and the burst damage scouts are capable of actually works really well in this capacity.

 

As a striker pilot I love scout pilots with this mentality ("interceptor" name than scouts in defining their role). You guys keep hostile GS and scouts off my back which leaves me free to bring down any bombers or strikers that make it past your defensive screen.

Edited by Gavin_Kelvar
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As a striker pilot I love scout pilots with this mentality ("interceptor" name than scouts in defining their role). You guys keep hostile GS and scouts off my back which leaves me free to bring down any bombers or strikers that make it past your defensive screen.

 

*wipes a tear* I love strikes that understand this, its not every game but every once in a while a strike will see me lurking around a node, and dive in to either dislodge campers or to tank some mines. I always take this advantage and clear any incs and then focus on killing the bomber (or anyone else that happens to be around)

 

People say strikes don't have a roll, but a strike scout combo that knows that they are supposed to do is priceless.

 

Anyways, my statement still stands. Bombers will continue to excell at node defense, and many people in different ships will see a node full of mines and decide not to even attempt it. The interdiction nerf won't even play into this decision, there is still a ton of damage to be taken from a mined sat, interdiction or no.

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People say strikes don't have a roll, but a strike scout combo that knows that they are supposed to do is priceless.

 

Wow that kind of makes the argument you were trying to dispute. If strikes only have a roll when they have competent wingmen then they definitely need to be fixed.

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1 shot with 2 mines ?

 

With current meta, maxed interdiction and seismic mines can do over 950 straight to hull damage. Insta-popping most scouts. It only doesn't do it if you have the crew member DR bonus.

Edited by tommmsunb
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With current meta, maxed interdiction and seismic mines can do over 950 straight to hull damage. Insta-popping most scouts. It only doesn't do it if you have the crew member DR bonus.

 

I understand it's just the use of the word "One Shot", would you call it a one shot if a T2 scout crits with burst at close range then finishes the job by launching a double volley cluster at close range ?

 

I have logs of T2 scouts taking full health bombers out in under 2 seconds. Given the cooldowns on the mines the bomber is still behind the curve.

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Too late the Scout Cartel has won this one and there is a mine nerf in the works.

 

Really I am pretty sure the dev making these decisions flys a scout.

 

actually i believe one of the key GSF devs favorite ship is the Bomber, as stated before on video, he prefers support type ships like the Bomber... that's why it takes so long for anything to be done about Bombers, because his bias is in the Bombers favor... it's why T1 Scouts have been constantly nerfed to fire silly string and foam darts while nothing has happened to Bombers until now... contrary to your statement it is the scouts that always get the short end of the stick, if scouts got what they wanted armor piercing would not have been nerfed, Barrel Roll would not have been nerfed either, rather it would have simply been removed from the offending (gun)ships, and replaced with something more GS appropriate...

"Scout Cartel has won this one" that's funny...

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I understand it's just the use of the word "One Shot", would you call it a one shot if a T2 scout crits with burst at close range then finishes the job by launching a double volley cluster at close range ?

 

I have logs of T2 scouts taking full health bombers out in under 2 seconds. Given the cooldowns on the mines the bomber is still behind the curve.

I do not count that as one-shotting. You technically have time to react, and honestly 2 seconds feels quite a lot longer than it sounds in GSF time.

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actually i believe one of the key GSF devs favorite ship is the Bomber, as stated before on video, he prefers support type ships like the Bomber... that's why it takes so long for anything to be done about Bombers, because his bias is in the Bombers favor... it's why T1 Scouts have been constantly nerfed to fire silly string and foam darts while nothing has happened to Bombers until now... contrary to your statement it is the scouts that always get the short end of the stick, if scouts got what they wanted armor piercing would not have been nerfed, Barrel Roll would not have been nerfed either, rather it would have simply been removed from the offending (gun)ships, and replaced with something more GS appropriate...

"Scout Cartel has won this one" that's funny...

 

I am sorry but I have no idea where your problem comes from. Bombers die very easily to just about every ship in the game. Provided they aren't doing horribly silly things when they fight a bomber.

 

Really if you have a bomber on a satellite without turrets, just back out of their mine range and pelt them. They die.

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I've been doomsaying about the inevitable rise of battle scouts if bombers are significantly nerfed for months now.

 

Bombers have not been significantly nerfed, interdiction mines are not necessary to keep battle scouts from dominating the meta. I never bought into the interdiction craze because concussions work just fine and, post-patch, they will continue to do so.

 

The interdiction nerf makes sense because people were taking it for the raw damage, not the snare. Concussions are your obvious damage dealers once again, and all is right in the world.

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I've been doomsaying about the inevitable rise of battle scouts if bombers are significantly nerfed for months now.

 

Bombers have not been significantly nerfed, interdiction mines are not necessary to keep battle scouts from dominating the meta. I never bought into the interdiction craze because concussions work just fine and, post-patch, they will continue to do so.

 

The interdiction nerf makes sense because people were taking it for the raw damage, not the snare. Concussions are your obvious damage dealers once again, and all is right in the world.

 

Inevitable? We've been top dogs since they got rid of double-tap ion.

 

But seriously if you want to take us out of the match, just stack slows. You can slow people to 0% with teamwork.

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actually i believe one of the key GSF devs favorite ship is the Bomber, as stated before on video, he prefers support type ships like the Bomber... that's why it takes so long for anything to be done about Bombers, because his bias is in the Bombers favor... it's why T1 Scouts have been constantly nerfed to fire silly string and foam darts while nothing has happened to Bombers until now... contrary to your statement it is the scouts that always get the short end of the stick, if scouts got what they wanted armor piercing would not have been nerfed, Barrel Roll would not have been nerfed either, rather it would have simply been removed from the offending (gun)ships, and replaced with something more GS appropriate...

"Scout Cartel has won this one" that's funny...

 

What are you talking about? A type 1 scout can melt any ship in seconds with rocket pods and lasers.

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Wow that kind of makes the argument you were trying to dispute. If strikes only have a roll when they have competent wingmen then they definitely need to be fixed.

 

That could be debated since a medic doesn't really have a role without teammates to heal (nor can a medic do their job if a tank ignores their job to tank). Strikers are much the same, they have a role but they can only perform that role to maximum efficiency when other players perform theirs.

 

A scout is NOT performing their role when they become hell bent on killing a bomber and ignore all the enemy GS, scouts and strikers out there when there are friendly strikers trying to make attack runs on the bomber. You could think of it like torpedo or dive bombers in WWII, they can do their job only if their escorts protect them during their attack runs. No protection means they'll get decimated, often before they can complete their run. Strikers in this case being the torpedo/dive bombers who are relying on their escort fighters (scouts) to keep enemy fighters off their tale. If scouts decide they're going to actively ignore the enemy fighters and attack the same target as the strikers it invariably goes poorly with both striker and scout units getting decimated by the enemy fighters that went completely unchecked. Sadly the majority of scouts seem to think that their role is no more complicated than "kill everything" which often leads to the aforementioned scenario.

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Inevitable? We've been top dogs since they got rid of double-tap ion.

 

But seriously if you want to take us out of the match, just stack slows. You can slow people to 0% with teamwork.

 

That's not the only way to slap around a battle scout.

 

Seismic/concussion is my personal favorite. There isn't a battle scout flying on pot5 who can contest my minelayer without significant support, and that was the case even before the giant pub premades (who wrecked the server's scene for a couple of months at least) left.

Edited by FridgeLM
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I've been doomsaying about the inevitable rise of battle scouts if bombers are significantly nerfed for months now.

 

Once more the Battle Scouts will rule the Meta, and then we shall have...peace.

 

[...]

 

Execute Order 66, I don't want any non-scout left alive.

 

[...]

 

So this is how balance dies, with thunderous BLC.

Edited by Zoom_VI
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