Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Why be mediocre when you can be exceptional? How about some innovation?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why be mediocre when you can be exceptional? How about some innovation?

slowjerk's Avatar


slowjerk
01.17.2012 , 01:55 PM | #11
The issue is actually developing something like that. All you say is be innovative. Throw out some ideas. It's easy to have great ideas but to actually develop and code them takes a lot of resources which pull from departments working on stuff everyone is already complaining about. This suggestion of a pve/pvp story mix will probably require some special UI stuff. They're going to need people fixing bugs for it. ETC ETC ETC I could keep going. They released the game a little early I think which is why we're seeing so many little issues.

It's a pretty good game so far even if the end game is similar to other mmos. It's a brand new MMO and it's BW first mmo. Give them some time and cut them some slack.

kalibri's Avatar


kalibri
01.17.2012 , 01:56 PM | #12
Great post, unfortunately it falls of deaf ears. Put your flame suit on.

BadgeredMushroom's Avatar


BadgeredMushroom
01.17.2012 , 01:57 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Kurnea View Post
Plenty of new and innovative games have come out in the past few years, the vast majority of which were so different that they weren't even labeled as mmos. Take Minecraft, great concept, fantastic community, and about as far from WoW as you can get.

Personally, TOR is largely what I expected: a traditional themepark with some KoTOR style elements. For those that have mmo burnout, they wouldn't be playing an mmo, period. They'd be trying out a new genre, or looking at what's new on the Indie scene. They might be playing LoL, or trying out a card game, or going to the gym, etc. If people were truly fed up with how themepark mmos work, they wouldn't be playing another themepark mmo in the first place.
I don't care about non-MMOs. I'm pleading with BioWare to make their MMO into something better than the other garbage out on the market. I own Minecraft. It's a great indie game, and more of what the industry needs as a whole, but I'm referring to the MMO genre (and this game specifically) in this post.

For all the hype that surrounded this game, including a developer saying "You'll find yourself doing things in SWTOR that you don't do in other MMOs", I expected a lot more than the same old loot treadmill I can find for $5 in the bargain bin or on Steam.
Simply because one criticizes the game doesn't mean that one doesn't like the game. In most cases, criticism comes from those who like the game but want to improve the game. Be less hostile to those who advocate for improvements.
Enough with the loot treadmills. Can we get something a little different?

Noleader's Avatar


Noleader
01.17.2012 , 01:58 PM | #14
I think the DAoC spin on PvP (kind of what you described above) has long been missing from a quality MMO. The issue is with population balance right now it would make any world PvP lopsided. DAoC resolved this by having 3 realms so one always acted as a wildcard for attacks... They also gave people added reason to play the underdog realm when the balance got way out of wack.

I do hope a company (Should be BioWare seeing they absorbed Mythic) does start down the path of meaningful PvP again and expand on the framework DAoC first developed.

BadgeredMushroom's Avatar


BadgeredMushroom
01.17.2012 , 02:00 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by slowjerk View Post
The issue is actually developing something like that. All you say is be innovative. Throw out some ideas. It's easy to have great ideas but to actually develop and code them takes a lot of resources which pull from departments working on stuff everyone is already complaining about. This suggestion of a pve/pvp story mix will probably require some special UI stuff. They're going to need people fixing bugs for it. ETC ETC ETC I could keep going. They released the game a little early I think which is why we're seeing so many little issues.
They could dedicate their resources to building innovative gameplay elements rather than building more bland operations and flashpoints for people to grind. Hell, if their team is as big as SR claims, they could likely do both.

Quote:
It's a pretty good game so far even if the end game is similar to other mmos. It's a brand new MMO and it's BW first mmo. Give them some time and cut them some slack.
It's not similar. It's exactly the same, but with a Star Wars skin. This is a problem.

They also deserve no slack. They weren't wise enough to learn from the mistakes of others but are instead repeating them. Countless titles since World of Warcraft's release show you that loot treadmills will not hold people's interest when there is already a loot treadmill that has years of polish and a massive following on the market.

This game has to do something unique to grab a hold of the market, not blend in with the crowd.
Simply because one criticizes the game doesn't mean that one doesn't like the game. In most cases, criticism comes from those who like the game but want to improve the game. Be less hostile to those who advocate for improvements.
Enough with the loot treadmills. Can we get something a little different?

Kurnea's Avatar


Kurnea
01.17.2012 , 02:05 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by BadgeredMushroom View Post
I don't care about non-MMOs.
Since you seem to dislike so many mmos, maybe you should. I mean, if you want games that don't play like WoW, looking outside themepark mmos are the way to go.
Quote: Originally Posted by BadgeredMushroom View Post
I'm pleading with BioWare to make their MMO into something better than the other garbage out on the market. I own Minecraft. It's a great indie game, and more of what the industry needs as a whole, but I'm referring to the MMO genre (and this game specifically) in this post.
I personally don't think it's 'garbage', and a large problem with gamers today is they'd rather complain and whine rather than actively look for games tailored for them and put their money where their mouth is when they say they want to support innovation.

If you don't like how AAA themepark mmos are made, then don't support them. Look over all the games at http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm, put some fair effort into finding a game that has what you say you want, and then support it.
Quote: Originally Posted by BadgeredMushroom View Post
For all the hype that surrounded this game, including a developer saying "You'll find yourself doing things in SWTOR that you don't do in other MMOs", I expected a lot more than the same old loot treadmill I can find for $5 in the bargain bin or on Steam.
I don't see how you were able to keep up on any of the 'hype' for this game without reading any number of warnings that this was going to largely play out like WoW. Months ago I was telling people that I expected this game to be like KoTOR + WoW. If you felt this game was going to be completely different, I don't think you really did your research. You bought a game based on false expectations.

Cormey's Avatar


Cormey
01.17.2012 , 02:09 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by BadgeredMushroom View Post
There is profit in it. Innovation is usually rewarded with profit. Look at World of Warcraft. It took most of the really crappy things about EverQuest, such as:
  • Draconian death penalties and other completely unecessary time sinks that did nothing to make the game harder but simply made it took longer.
  • Requiring a large amount of players to get just about anything done.

... and kept the fun things that EverQuest contained, plus added a few more dinky things (such as disguising grinding with questing) and voila! Instant millions.

Now look at just about any other title that has released since then. They're trying to emulate what World of Warcraft does, but why are people going to jump ship to Rift, AION, etc., when they don't do anything that their current game doesn't already do? They don't. They buy the game, putz around for a bit, then quit.
That's not innovation, it's polishing standard features. Actually most of the things you mention in your OP aren't even innovative, it's been done before in one form or another.
Syff, Suder, Lieutenant Lonn, Captain Maureen.
Tassitan, Darth Vandicus, Agent Cormoran, Marin.
Blazerunner legacy, Lord Adraas server

The sees all

Jiraiya_Goketsu's Avatar


Jiraiya_Goketsu
01.17.2012 , 02:11 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by BadgeredMushroom View Post
These forums move faster than a Jawa chasing a bag of credits in a sandstorm. Yeesh.
LOL, true, true.

ptwonline's Avatar


ptwonline
01.17.2012 , 02:15 PM | #19
Probably because innovation can also mean total failure. With an investment this large with an IP this strong, why would you take risks when you can make something much more surefire to succeed?

Small companies with less budget have to be more innovative because they cannot compete by offering more of the same. Big companies usually don't have to do that.

TheTurniipKing's Avatar


TheTurniipKing
01.17.2012 , 02:17 PM | #20
It's exceptionally mediocre. Does that count?