I expect people to actually read the thread before posting in it.

 

Haha uni IS making you cranky. I appreciate the help though. Quick question: I've been opening with flourish because I assumed the armor/trauma debuff would be the most helpful debuff to hit first as it affects the rest of the damage from then on. Why do you use it so late? Because all the bleeds are internal and thus unaffected by armor reduction?

 

Guess I just answered my own question...

Haha uni IS making you cranky. I appreciate the help though. Quick question: I've been opening with flourish because I assumed the armor/trauma debuff would be the most helpful debuff to hit first as it affects the rest of the damage from then on. Why do you use it so late? Because all the bleeds are internal and thus unaffected by armor reduction?

 

Guess I just answered my own question...

 

Assuming the target is at full heath when you first attack him, you want to save that 9 second heal debuff as long as you can in your rotation before they actually have to heal. Sure, you could use Flourish again and refresh it, but it takes up a rotation slot you could have used for something else if you had just timed it better.

 

Of course, this is assuming it's a one on one fight. In a warzone with your guild or a good group that's jumping on targets, it's important to nail that Flourish shot up right away.

Haha uni IS making you cranky. I appreciate the help though. Quick question: I've been opening with flourish because I assumed the armor/trauma debuff would be the most helpful debuff to hit first as it affects the rest of the damage from then on. Why do you use it so late? Because all the bleeds are internal and thus unaffected by armor reduction?

 

Guess I just answered my own question...

 

In general, I actually prefer to use Flourish as soon as I start focusing someone, simply because of the healing debuff.

 

Also, to the above posters, Hemo Shot is important to use after other skills, especially at full energy. Consider the following two scenarios:

1. Using it first. This does little good except for the first tick of Vital Shot. Might expire before doing all it can (though not sure, I would have to do the math. If Riiquiem says it doesn't last the whole time, I would believe it.)

2. Using it second. Makes the first tick of Shrap Bomb more powerful and capitalizes on the fact that it is free to use in managing your energy, effectively allowing you to regenerate energy on that 1.5 second global cooldown instead of starting at 100% and staying at 100% with the initial use of Hemo.

 

Makes sense to use it second.

 

@Riiquiem:

Thanks for posting the initial numbers on DF and some SS. I ran some on Saboteur on my Warzone training dummy, but university is kicking my butt as well. I will post them when I have time. I would also like Bioware to work out the bugs with the training dummies, as they said here that dual-wielders are doing more damage than they are supposed to, due to the dummies not being able to deflect or dodge. I would love to run numbers after they get that fixed though, so thanks!

Why do you use it so late? Because all the bleeds are internal and thus unaffected by armor reduction?

 

Guess I just answered my own question...

 

exactly. that armor debuff only affects weapon damage (white numbers) and nothing else.

ofc its situational, if you need the healing debuff then use it whenever you need it or just reduce armor so your teammates can benefit from it... however talkin about a 1on1 situation you shouldnt use it first.

Enemy wont use their medkits below 50% anyway i guess and heal debuff only lasts 9 secs.

Yeah, I should have mentioned, when I use Flourish Shot, it is usually because I am the DPS focus target, so people often target me to figure out who to burn down. I know as a healing commando in WZs that I often start healing as soon as I notice someone dropping quickly. That is certainly within 9 seconds. If doing 1v1s, I will usually only use it after both DoTs, but before Wounding Shots.

Hm okay update regarding my guide.

 

My guild quits the game, cause it's dead and with the release of Diablo 3 I will too.

My sub runs out in a week anyway so yea, thats the deal.

Maybe I'll be back when server merge and ranked games are released in a few months.

Until then I'm willing to share my knowledge about slinger pvp for anyone who wants to write a guide about that and I still will be active in the forums sometimes.

 

Hm yea so long.

Hm okay update regarding my guide.

 

My guild quits the game, cause it's dead and with the release of Diablo 3 I will too.

My sub runs out in a week anyway so yea, thats the deal.

Maybe I'll be back when server merge and ranked games are released in a few months.

Until then I'm willing to share my knowledge about slinger pvp for anyone who wants to write a guide about that and I still will be active in the forums sometimes.

 

Hm yea so long.

 

Sigh. It's like looking at the "Detail" enlargement when looking at the big picture swtor's life cycle.

 

You'll be missed.

My guild quits the game, cause it's dead and with the release of Diablo 3 I will too.

IMO Diablo 3 is as overrated as was SWTOR before the release. Althought it will not suffer the same fate because there are no alternatives. But still I very much doubt it will be as popular 10 years after the release as D2 was...

 

Sorry for offtop. Hope you'll not forget to log here and offer invaluable help for fellow GSs

I read the post, very nice info.

 

It says ur favourite spec is sab survivabily, but ppl are talking about DF in the last posts? wich build did u use last days?

 

Thanks.

I read the post, very nice info.

 

It says ur favourite spec is sab survivabily, but ppl are talking about DF in the last posts? wich build did u use last days?

 

Thanks.

Yes, my favorite spec is Sab generally, but Riiquiem, who has been a great contributor, prefers DF. I have recently been trying to get into DF, because of the buffs it got in 1.2, but I haven't abandoned Sab as my favorite.

 

By current build I am trying is

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700ZrMZGbbkrrGdGR.1

Been reading pretty heavily on this since I've been getting into my gunslinger a bit (currently 28) so obviously I cant quite test builds yet.

 

First off, I love hybrid builds, unique and kind of have the "underdog" feeling.

 

With that said, was wondering how versatile the Sab/DF hybrid is in PvE? Anyone been able to test that? Or is pure sab just better off PvE wise.

Been reading pretty heavily on this since I've been getting into my gunslinger a bit (currently 28) so obviously I cant quite test builds yet.

 

First off, I love hybrid builds, unique and kind of have the "underdog" feeling.

 

With that said, was wondering how versatile the Sab/DF hybrid is in PvE? Anyone been able to test that? Or is pure sab just better off PvE wise.

 

I never tested it myself but from my experience I imagine that pure sab turns out better than the hybrid specs.

Simple reason is the energy management.

I never tested it myself but from my experience I imagine that pure sab turns out better than the hybrid specs.

Simple reason is the energy management.

 

That's what I thought but I figured I should get some professional advice lol

 

Thanks for the info tho

Been reading pretty heavily on this since I've been getting into my gunslinger a bit (currently 28) so obviously I cant quite test builds yet.

 

First off, I love hybrid builds, unique and kind of have the "underdog" feeling.

 

With that said, was wondering how versatile the Sab/DF hybrid is in PvE? Anyone been able to test that? Or is pure sab just better off PvE wise.

 

Very viable actually, and energy management is good if you get both insurrection and fighting spirit (smth like 2/16/23). DPS-wise its pretty much equal to pure DF, gaining some aoe (thermal grenade) and losing dps from dots (which is somewhat redeemed by shock charge).

Edited June 11, 2012 by Kiisu

I honestly try to build hybrid builds, but i cannot bring myself to not take the serious DoT buffs in T6 and T7 of the DF tree, and I can' help but take Sabotage and Incendiary Grenade in Sab. I guess I just like the 31 point skills in both Sab and DF too much to hybridize it lol.

EDIT: Duplicate post, stupid a** phone lol Edited June 14, 2012 by Taovhal

Thanks for all the info on everything. I've decided to go with the hybrid build. Currently level 32 and am doing quite well in both PvE and my occasional PvP.

 

I'd definitely say that pure Sab has better energy management than hybrid, but hybrid is still definitely workable. But I think its almost a given that you'll see better energy management in pure Sab and possibly better DPS in pure DF. (logically thinking at a basic glance of things.) Personally tho, I think better energy management yields better and more sustainable DPS in the long run.

 

Also, is the PvP gear set at level 40 worth it compared to buyable grear at that level?

 

And what skill rotation am I looking at for a hybrid build? Am not sure if I came across one in this thread or not

 

Thanks everyone who is helping btw!

Edited June 14, 2012 by Taovhal

Updated the link list with a post on my blog about rotations. Just some thoughts really, but feel free to comment on them here!

Updated the link list with a post on my blog about rotations. Just some thoughts really, but feel free to comment on them here!

 

hm regarding the DF rotation I'd change something.

Start with vital shot, followed by hemo blast and then use shrap.

 

Reason is that vital shot does not tick immediately and uses hemo blast directly after it's been applied.

In addition you have to keep in mind that shrap bomb immediately ticks.

So this way you make sure you use hemo blast stacks completely without losing some.

 

I already posted something about this a few posts earlier.

 

Also regarding sabotage you shouldn't start with flourish and add sab charge after that,

you'll lose time on flourish shot, maybe it's more efficient to start with both DOTs to use their full potential.

Dude, Quickshot? really?

hm regarding the DF rotation I'd change something.

Start with vital shot, followed by hemo blast and then use shrap.

 

Reason is that vital shot does not tick immediately and uses hemo blast directly after it's been applied.

In addition you have to keep in mind that shrap bomb immediately ticks.

So this way you make sure you use hemo blast stacks completely without losing some.

 

I already posted something about this a few posts earlier.

 

Also regarding sabotage you shouldn't start with flourish and add sab charge after that,

you'll lose time on flourish shot, maybe it's more efficient to start with both DOTs to use their full potential.

Dude, Quickshot? really?

 

Yeah the DF rotation I put up was because I like having Shrap Bomb come off cooldown more quickly. I find that Hemo uses all the stacks quite easily, since it is consumed by both DoTs. I may be wrong about this, though. I will check.

 

I did however change Sabotage Charge and Flourish Shot's order in my other rotations, because that makes sense.

 

Quickshot is a great PvE and PvP skill, based on the facts that it is instant-cast, it has a low energy cost (especially in PvE with the Field Tech set bonus), and it has a high critical payout in Sharpshooter and in general. I have recently been hitting the 5k crit medal with this sucker. When it comes to DPS, this guy is pretty powerful.

 

On a side note, glad to see you are back, Riiquiem!

Thank you, server transfers really did wonders.

 

Hemo blast lasts for 15 seconds. Thinking of the rotation you posted it would be like this:

 

Hemo + vital + shrap.

 

Thats 1,5 secs + 1,5 secs , tick (sb deals dmg on usage), 1 sec, tick (vital shot) and so on..

Don't forget both DOTs only tick every 3 secs.

So when you start with hemo you actually only use roughly about 12 or 11 secs of its duration for a dmg boost, cause you lose the rest to gcd and time you need to hit the keys etc.

 

Thats 12 / 3 = 4 ticks per DOT if they tick the same time = 8 buffed ticks meaning you lost 2 of the original 10 potentially buffed bleed ticks.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

 

What's your spec atm? Really wondering how you get those numbers with quickshot.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Riiquiem

Ah, I can see your point on that rotation then. I will check it myself (just because I like to make sure I have all the info) and change it probably. The math doesn't lie though, hard to argue with that.

 

I am using a Sharpshooter spec right now, seeing how it works with the changes to Trickshot etc. I am using this spec atm:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bsrrbRsRGZMcZG.1

Dude you owe me 100k for respec....

 

TRICKSHOT =/= QUICKSHOT

Dude you owe me 100k for respec....

 

TRICKSHOT =/= QUICKSHOT

 

Whoops sorry, I never meant either of those, I was talking about Quickdraw

 

I looked back at our conversation and I think I might have gotten goofed up because you made Quick Shot one word.

 

I even used the wrong word when talking about the Field Tech bonus lol. That should've tipped you off that I was thinking about something else

 

Again, sorry about that, mate. You haven't wasted that money though, still a really good build for burst damage.

 

You probably have no problem with Quickdraw do you?

Well I still refuse to spec into SS, I'm running with 0/21/20 atm

 

like this

 

Somehow I don't feel the energy costs to be that high like I remember.