I know there are hundreds of different forum threads on this subject, I just figured it was time to add my two-cents to it. Throughout my 3 years of playing swtor, i have been, addicted lets say, to pvp. I do it almost every day as a solo que player. In my time of pvping, i have run into my fair share of premades. More than a few of which has had me enraged to the point of just blind destruction. Now, its time for this issue is resolved. In my time, I have only done 1 single "premade" and by that I mean just myself and two friends grouped together for one wz. Now I get that it must be fun doing mega premades, I really do get it. But all your doing is just creating hatred and frustration for a lot of veteran players like myself who prefer solo ques and also some inexperienced players who go into wzs just looking for a good time, but they then get obliterated by a premade group. It has to end.

Many people on this subject say the best solution is to just outright ban premades. I cant blame them, I do think premades should be banned, but the banning should be based on the premade composition. If its a standard ops group of 2 tanks, 4 dps, and 2 healers, then that im fine with, but if your going up against a mega premade consisting of for example: 4 sages, 2 dps, 2 healer, a scoundrel healer, 2 vanguards, one tank spec, and a shadow, that is where the banning must be. A team like that destroys almost any pug group. And all it does is again create hatred and frustration among the enemy.

Now what is about to be said is a personal viewpoint so please dont take it personally

If your one of those people who do almost nothing but premades in PvP, then what are you really proving. You are not proving your own strength, your own skill. You are not willing to fight face to face with your enemy. You become cowards who rely too much on others to help you get the job done. You are not even close to those of us who solo que and we go head to head with about half of the enemy team without any assistance and defeat them. Until you actually go through that situation and you come out standing, do not, and I mean DO NOT think for one second you are better than someone who solo ques. Because your not, your afraid. You may not realize it, but you fear odds like those. You think "I will just wait for my teammates to help me". Until you do, dont even attempt PvP.

End of personal viewpoint

Now another issue that arises when you deal with premades, is the taunting and essentially bullying that pug groups receive from premades. Typically at the end of a match, one or more members of the premade start to insult the pug group and essentially turning them away from PvP due to the harsh treatment they receive from their opponents. Now many of you will say "they are just being butt hurt little babies". And that is along the lines of that bullying attitude. That is another thing that must end.

Potential Solution

Now, as I stated above, there are many who would say an outright ban to premades is the best solution. In a sense, that is a bit of a double edged sword. If you outright ban premades in PvP, you risk turning off a good chunk of the pvp community. Now there was a forum post that spoke of a separate que for pvp, dedicated to premade groups. Personally, I think that would be the best solution because it would allow pugs to go against pugs, and premades to go against premades. Now depending on the server, premades will undoubtedly run into longer que times. That can be alleviated via either cross server ques, or a mega server. Now will Bioware actually do that, my guess is no. But it is something to think about. And if you are a strictly premade pvp player, go on out and actually do pugs honestly, its better(in my opinion) than going into a premade because you never know what will happen in the match, and to me thats the best part, the unexpected twists of one hell of a pvp match

tl;dr

Probably the same QQ thats been posted 1000 times. Over it

I almost always run with a premade, except when I am playing assassin or operative dps, or if I am healing and no one else in my guild needs a group.

I don't Q with people so that we can roflstomp the other team (Though it does happen from time to time)

I do it so I don't get roflstomped

You see, when I Q solo, there are 7 available slots that are, for the most part, random. Which means 7 potential slots to get someone with less than 500 expertise who has no clue what they are doing.

And at the same time, Murphy's Law makes it so whenever I get idiots on my team (Or a team with no healer) The enemy team will get a nice set of 2-3 sage healers and a tank. Obviously this doesn't always happen, but it happens enough to frustrate me.

My solution is to group with others in my guild, so no matter what I have at least one competent healer on my team, while also reducing the 7 random slots to 4, which is a win win in my mind.

I understand that some guilds run 8-man premades sometimes just to stomp people into the ground (I've been apart of them occasionally, I usually avoid it because it takes too much work to set up) But long gone are the days when it was common to see a full Goof Troop or HVND premade on Harbinger come in and destroy everything.

Now, I do find that most games are a faceroll, one way or another, but I think they should fix the problem by:

-Class balancing. We need it, everyone wants it. Just do it.

-Very basic matchmaking: If there is one or more healers on one team, require the other team to have at least one healer.

so your "2 cents" couldn't have been posted in one of the billion other threads that say exactly what you just did

Everyone always thinks of this from the por pug'ers side, has anyone ever thought that it could be those very pug's with their 500 exp and their refusal to change that drive people to premades with actual competent teammates? and as for premade vs premade que how exactly would that work? you'll essentially have a "pug" premade with the exact same issues. how is it fair for four 2-man groups from different guilds to go against this supposed 8-man double premade group that supposedly runs rampant everywhere except for any wz I've ever happened to be in? (or maybe people are just exaggerating their asses off).

Does a group of 3 PT and sorc healer match your criteria, or is it ok?

So I guess I should be banned for running a couple of wzs today in such composition. Nevermind that we did worse than our previous - sin tank, sniper, mara and merc healer. I should be banned. Not these bots running around yavin and farming 10 mil a day. It is me who destroys the game. Nobody has friends or guildies to play with. Only me.

I group for group play. Chit chat, organized game play, just someone to talk with. Can't do it solo. I have guild voice Comms, my personal voice chat or end up on a buddies voice.

I don't group to win, pre made is not a guaranteed win. I've been in matches with double premades and failed, hard at times mostly due to lack of proper communication.

Is there a problem with grouping? Nope. It's your option. If you want to be carried and rely on others then solo queue. If you want to coordinate attacks, defenses, focus fire properly then group up. Make some friends. They don't have to be in your guild. I tend to solo a lot, I do group, when a spot is open. Or I'll group with 1 or 2

Let it be. That there is a PVE game. Neither Bioware nor the kiddies that play "PVP" have enough competence to address the issue at all.

I play here only "PVP" if I absolutely need Conquest points. Then I do not care how bad it is.

Well what the premade losers should ask themselves is why they need an optimized group setup to handle the solo content in the the game.

There is ranked for groups - anyone needing to group up for regs is a sad loser.

Well what the premade losers should ask themselves is why they need an optimized group setup to handle the solo content in the the game.

 

There is ranked for groups - anyone needing to group up for regs is a sad loser.

Maybe you should just ask yourself why you don't have any friends to play with? Is it because you kept calling them all losers? It is, isn't it?

Everyone always thinks of this from the por pug'ers side, has anyone ever thought that it could be those very pug's with their 500 exp and their refusal to change that drive people to premades with actual competent teammates? and as for premade vs premade que how exactly would that work? you'll essentially have a "pug" premade with the exact same issues. how is it fair for four 2-man groups from different guilds to go against this supposed 8-man double premade group that supposedly runs rampant everywhere except for any wz I've ever happened to be in? (or maybe people are just exaggerating their asses off).

I don't think that's true. the op is kinda hopeless (yet another thread) and that bobbafatter guy. why did you even bother replying to his idiocy?

but seriously, you have to understand that better players usually grp with better players. and the problem with that is it often puts the 4 best (or worst!) players in the match on the same team. and it's not random, so the 4 best (or worst!) players in the match are always on the same team. that is a significant issue.

but I'm also not retarded. there's a limit to the "policing" you can do or expect from any governing body before revolt. there are also a plethora of other things that should reasonbly be taken care of before even thinking about splitting queues. I mean...the most obvious thing is role matching. x-faction. x-server. limit the number of players from the same guild on the same team (a reasonable attempt to prevent super queues). balance the number of pugs for both squads. there's probably a dozen things that are less radical and less polarizing than the idiocy some of these ppl propose. so I'm with you there. but on the other hand...yeah. I mean. you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see how having the 4 best or the 4 worst players in the match always on the same team turns most WZs and all arenas into a joke.

The problem isn't people queing in premades in regs. The problem is BW devs not installing a truly solo queue for regs.

You cannot blame people for grouping when the system encourages it.

What do you want people to do? Not queue in groups, and enjoy the same steamrolling that usually happens to your PUG when facing premades?

I find grouping even with one other competent PVPer improves the quality of the match, even if we lose.

You can't rely on the randomness of who might queue and expect great matches. There are far too many PVE geared players, apathetic players, and just bad players to expect some sort of competitiveness when solo.

Basically if you solo queue, you cannot complain about the players grouping. You need to recognize the culprits of your misery. Blame devs for not having a true solo queue, and yourself for not grouping with others.

Very basic matchmaking is needed. If a premade q's up then the system waits at least a few minutes to TRY to place a premade on the other team. If the system can't find another premade in just a few minutes then the system would work as it does now. Class role matchmaking/etc. would be great of course but for now at least give us the basic matchmaking system I proposed above.

There is nothing wrong with premading and I would start premading again if matchmaking was in place. As it is now I can't stand premading because I hate runover wins just as much as terrible losses.

What's up with all this **** anyway?

I always facepalm and never understood the premade whiners that are appearing from time to time on the forums.

Around 20% of my games are with guildies because of the Conquest farm or with a random collection of people that have met in wzs and know each other to be good, but the other 80% is solo queue.

From where do you even get the time to check players names to see if they are in the same guild? You should be too busy playing the wz. Unless this is a US server thing i am not getting and almost all wzs are premade with 2 skilled dpsers a tank and healer.

If you are too frustrated then have a 10 min break and you will miss the next few pops in which the premade that made you angry is.

There is little point to preaching the issues of balance and fairness in regard to this issue, it falls on deaf ears. Many play in teams to play with friends... a viable reason, others... becasue they need the help to be competitive. regardless of thje reason nothing anyone is going to say is going to change it.

The one thing i find about it more than anything else is that those who role premades have lost their edge. They cant play without the backup, guards, and heals that these provide and are playing far below their potential individually in most cases.

I got far better after going solo. Now im not all that or anything and premades are the way of things in the game today, it simply is what it is... i will team up from time to time and may even join a group going forward because of it, but the reality is that if all you do is premades the bulk of the time, especially those with tanks/heals... you are under performing as an individual in all likelihood.

I don't think that's true. the op is kinda hopeless (yet another thread) and that bobbafatter guy. why did you even bother replying to his idiocy?

 

but seriously, you have to understand that better players usually grp with better players. and the problem with that is it often puts the 4 best (or worst!) players in the match on the same team. and it's not random, so the 4 best (or worst!) players in the match are always on the same team. that is a significant issue.

 

but I'm also not retarded. there's a limit to the "policing" you can do or expect from any governing body before revolt. there are also a plethora of other things that should reasonbly be taken care of before even thinking about splitting queues. I mean...the most obvious thing is role matching. x-faction. x-server. limit the number of players from the same guild on the same team (a reasonable attempt to prevent super queues). balance the number of pugs for both squads. there's probably a dozen things that are less radical and less polarizing than the idiocy some of these ppl propose. so I'm with you there. but on the other hand...yeah. I mean. you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see how having the 4 best or the 4 worst players in the match always on the same team turns most WZs and all arenas into a joke.

From what I see, most people tend to form groups with people in their guild or friends they've made in game. Sure, sometimes you have those guilds that only recruit who they think is "the best of the best" and those kind of guilds forming premades are most likely the basis for threads like this. however, 90% of it is just people grouping up to do something together. people group up for PvE and it's the norm, but you want to do some PvP together and suddenly you have to use a different que or get a whole team together for granked. JC is one of the more populated servers around, and don't even see full 4's that often let alone this fabled 8-man. An evening of PvP for me after logging on chat usually goes like this: "hey guys, anyone doing 65's? cool, mind sending an invite? I need to cap my sniper for conquest". Nobody even bothers with comp save for the times where we were screwing around going 4 arsenal mercs or 4 annhi mara's.

The problem isn't people queing in premades in regs. The problem is BW devs not installing a truly solo queue for regs.

 

You cannot blame people for grouping when the system encourages it.

 

What do you want people to do? Not queue in groups, and enjoy the same steamrolling that usually happens to your PUG when facing premades?

 

I find grouping even with one other competent PVPer improves the quality of the match, even if we lose.

 

You can't rely on the randomness of who might queue and expect great matches. There are far too many PVE geared players, apathetic players, and just bad players to expect some sort of competitiveness when solo.

 

Basically if you solo queue, you cannot complain about the players grouping. You need to recognize the culprits of your misery. Blame devs for not having a true solo queue, and yourself for not grouping with others.

having a purely solo que means you supposrt splitting group and solo ques which is a terrible idea. your solo que times will decrease dramatically, and the pops for the "premade" que will be even worse. it will hurt everyone and help no one.

The solution here is so stupid easy.

1.) Remove ranked PvP. It's so stupid and NOBODY cares about it.

2.) Have one queue for SINGLE players

3.) Have one queue for GROUPED players

Wanna play an MMO with your friends? Sweet. Then play against another group of 'friends' instead of a random group of idiots.

The solution here is so stupid easy.

 

1.) Remove ranked PvP. It's so stupid and NOBODY cares about it.

2.) Have one queue for SINGLE players

3.) Have one queue for GROUPED players

 

Wanna play an MMO with your friends? Sweet. Then play against another group of 'friends' instead of a random group of idiots.

We no longer have the player base to support different queues without drastically increasing queue times. Be careful what you ask for

Now another issue that arises when you deal with premades, is the taunting and essentially bullying that pug groups receive from premades. Typically at the end of a match, one or more members of the premade start to insult the pug group and essentially turning them away from PvP due to the harsh treatment they receive from their opponents. Now many of you will say "they are just being butt hurt little babies". And that is along the lines of that bullying attitude. That is another thing that must end.

This is really the only thing I agree with in the thread. Sure, your premade is so epic at beating up random pugs, just leave it at that and move to your next roflstomp. It doesn't even have to be words, you can tell when the premade is ******* with you in huttball, for example, when they've scored 5 quick goals and then make no attempt to score the rest of the match. I'd love to quit at that point but I just want that measly point included in my daily/weekly so that's one less similar match to endure, but no, you've gotta drag it out.

While most of you (now speaking generally) must have thick skin and think it's just part of competitive pvp to be bullied/harassed/insulted by others, whether they're actually bads or not, it really does drive away people from joining no matter how you paint it. You want pvp to pop faster, to have a sizeable population that Bioware can look at with their data and say "hey, maybe we should spend a little more time with pvp now that more people are playing it", then the known insulters/bullies/harassers/whathaveyou need to be shunned, ignored, reported, etc. en masse. They're a worse detriment to an otherwise fun aspect of the game than the people who don't necessarily know what they're doing with strats/gearing/awareness/etc. who would probably stick around and get better if they weren't being actively pushed away by pvp's own base.

From what I see, most people tend to form groups with people in their guild or friends they've made in game. Sure, sometimes you have those guilds that only recruit who they think is "the best of the best" and those kind of guilds forming premades are most likely the basis for threads like this. however, 90% of it is just people grouping up to do something together. people group up for PvE and it's the norm, but you want to do some PvP together and suddenly you have to use a different que or get a whole team together for granked. JC is one of the more populated servers around, and don't even see full 4's that often let alone this fabled 8-man. An evening of PvP for me after logging on chat usually goes like this: "hey guys, anyone doing 65's? cool, mind sending an invite? I need to cap my sniper for conquest". Nobody even bothers with comp save for the times where we were screwing around going 4 arsenal mercs or 4 annhi mara's..

very few guilds are composed of radically different skilled players. there's always the token carry friend or something. but generally, if you're in the same guild, you're in the same ball park in skill.

the funny thing, though, and the reason I felt compelled to reply, is that I stayed in my origin server guild (casual pve) until recently with at least some of my imp toons. they started q-syncing, which annoyed me on a ethics level. before that, however, they would grp up together to pvp. I purposefully avoided grping with them. they just weren't good. it's like a 4-man of <guild> was a cancer-laced anchor in every WZ. and then you'd get into mumble and they'd be complaining about getting wrecked. I'm like...yeah. you're 3-4 bad pvpers and you chose to GROUP together. so now there's a guaranteed concentration of sh^t in every WZ you play.

it's not just about the better players usually grping together. this whole "make friends" "go premade yourself" rhetoric is moronic. it would be silly to ban premades from the queue. and the population is too small to split the queue. so any sane person would have to acknowledge that hey, you gotta compromise a bit here. there are less radical things to do.

but yeah...I just thought it was funny that the premade issue is super common. but it's not just there's all those great 4-mans running around. it's that it preloads the team with a bunch of players of similar skill together with no regard for the skill of the other team....or the role, but that's a bit different issue.

The solution here is so stupid easy.

 

1.) Remove ranked PvP. It's so stupid and NOBODY cares about it.

2.) Have one queue for SINGLE players

3.) Have one queue for GROUPED players

 

Wanna play an MMO with your friends? Sweet. Then play against another group of 'friends' instead of a random group of idiots.

Please if YOU don't care about ranked pvp don't speak for EVERYONE.

I have to agree with OP overall. Time and again I solo queue in Regs and see this one guild on our server (Shadowlands). I think they came from Harbinger but I am not certain of that. They only play with premade groups, usually tank + healer + 2 DPS. Sometimes they get a double premade going and you will end up with 20+ people in the other team due to so many leaving. They don't care how much damage they are doing to PvP in SWTOR. They "just want to play with our friends!" (translation: "we want to stomp every pug we can and win, that is all that matters to us. we don't want a real challenge.")

This is NOT good for PvP. It drives away people who might have actually played on a regular basis if they'd had any chance at all.

When not facing a premade we see bizarre matchmaking. For instance, a Voidstar I played the other day with 3 healers, 2 tanks, and 3 DPS on one team. The other team had NO healers, 3 tanks, and 5 DPS. With proper matchmaking this would not happen.

So, we need two things for PvP. We need proper Matchmaking, and we need Solo Queue. I personally don't care if a premade has to wait for hours for a queue to pop. A solo queue would pop constantly!

I would love to see groups queued up again groups only and solo queued up again solo only but this will never happen.

im sorry but premade groups being put in same wz as people that q solo is not great way to promote people to want to pvp it drives them away. yes premade can be defeat by team entirely made of solo q but that rare, do to fact that premade group is probably using TS to communicate. which solo q people dont have.

And no the answer to this i not make your own group, just add to issue. alternatively they can add TS/Vent into games client and put everone in same wz in the same voice chat channel. which would sorta fix this issue in that atest everone have access to ts/vent. then again the degerate into piss match blaming each other threw voice chat but that proably wont happen either.

no this is something i've never read before

OP is surely playing an Operative and needs a nerf