Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Death Match.....


Darth_Padzillus's Avatar


Darth_Padzillus
04.04.2017 , 01:56 PM | #21
I would rather wait an hour or two in queue and get into a team of nabs like myself flying scouts and fighters than to get into a battle every 20 min where I basicly get slaughtered by way more experienced and better equiped players with their gunships. Even if the better team is on my side, it's not fun, not much left for me to do in that case. I tried out gunships, and that is boring as hell. I think most people would want a hectic, fast paced battle in their fighters, not a war of attrition.

How about gunships and bombers had their separate missions? Maybe PvE content for bombers and gunships,, perhaps ops against capital ships, and space stations? It's not good for the game when these gunship snipers kill the buzz for newbies who want to fly a pvp battle. If these battles only had strike fighters and scouts, things would improve wastly, and we'd have a true Galactic STARFIGHTER experience...

...or give a long cooldown ability to scouts and strike fighters to torpedo those damn gunships from slightly outside their firing range. That might balance things out a bit too. They kill fighters too easy, and are too robust to kill off easily, gunships need to get either nerfed or more vulerable or both. Also bombers should be bombers, not mine layers.

Lavaar's Avatar


Lavaar
04.04.2017 , 05:05 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Padzillus View Post
I would rather wait an hour or two in queue and get into a team of nabs like myself flying scouts and fighters than to get into a battle every 20 min where I basicly get slaughtered by way more experienced and better equiped players with their gunships. Even if the better team is on my side, it's not fun, not much left for me to do in that case. I tried out gunships, and that is boring as hell. I think most people would want a hectic, fast paced battle in their fighters, not a war of attrition.

How about gunships and bombers had their separate missions? Maybe PvE content for bombers and gunships,, perhaps ops against capital ships, and space stations? It's not good for the game when these gunship snipers kill the buzz for newbies who want to fly a pvp battle. If these battles only had strike fighters and scouts, things would improve wastly, and we'd have a true Galactic STARFIGHTER experience...

...or give a long cooldown ability to scouts and strike fighters to torpedo those damn gunships from slightly outside their firing range. That might balance things out a bit too. They kill fighters too easy, and are too robust to kill off easily, gunships need to get either nerfed or more vulerable or both. Also bombers should be bombers, not mine layers.
Ha

I would love nothing more than to see you fly in an 8v8 of all scouts/strikes with reasonably competent pilots behind the joysticks. You'd change your tune pretty darn quick when you realize you just banished the easiest targets from the match and now lock on missiles may as well not even exist, and one build of T2 scout has become a proverbial lawnmower.

If gunships and bombers didn't have utility then why would anyone ever choose the clunkiest, most immobile ships? If you have a need for speed, there are plenty of racing games available.

Use your head

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
04.04.2017 , 08:01 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by jeardawg View Post
like team escort
This might actually give a purpose to the type 2 strike or the torpedo version of the tier 2 gunship or bomber. It could also give a role to things like the shield projector component or a use for tensor outside the start of a match. Presumably the ship we are escorting would not have a missle break since it would be npc, and the turbo laser turrets could be "offline" hence why they need an escort. They could make it like Voidstar where the teams alternate between escorting and assaulting. Reskin a version of Denon which is expansive but has some objects for line of sight.
If you think I've made a good contribution with this post, I kindly ask that you use my Refer a Friend link! Here is more information about the program.

Vember's Avatar


Vember
04.05.2017 , 01:49 PM | #24
I have gotten to the point where I despise deathmatches because it's just a gunship whore-fest. Satellite matches are much, much more fun imo.

Kolskeggur's Avatar


Kolskeggur
04.17.2017 , 06:42 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Lavaar View Post
Ha

I would love nothing more than to see you fly in an 8v8 of all scouts/strikes with reasonably competent pilots behind the joysticks. You'd change your tune pretty darn quick when you realize you just banished the easiest targets from the match and now lock on missiles may as well not even exist, and one build of T2 scout has become a proverbial lawnmower.

If gunships and bombers didn't have utility then why would anyone ever choose the clunkiest, most immobile ships? If you have a need for speed, there are plenty of racing games available.

Use your head
Yeah it's not like it's less aggravating to be shot down by a skilled fighter pilot than getting one-shotted by a camper, not at all..........
"No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." - Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

agelosek's Avatar


agelosek
04.19.2017 , 08:20 AM | #26
GS aren't problem at all... problem is that everyone play them in deathmach so it became camping fest. And for me as scout pilot it's very boring to just shoot non moving targets. And of course it's quiet hard to shoot down good GS when other 2 GSs have you target lock.
Age-mist - Vigilance Guardian, scout pilot on The Red Eclypse

Kolskeggur's Avatar


Kolskeggur
04.23.2017 , 02:25 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by agelosek View Post
GS aren't problem at all... problem is that everyone play them in deathmach so it became camping fest. And for me as scout pilot it's very boring to just shoot non moving targets. And of course it's quiet hard to shoot down good GS when other 2 GSs have you target lock.
I'd say that makes them a problem, yes. They're the easy way out, and when there's several of them, they're hard to counter... except by OP scout pilots (they're not a majority) or other gunships. So it's more often than not gunship standoffs which makes it boring/tedious. Since we can't very well reprogram the users, I'd say the gunships is a problem then. At the very least they should be nerfed to not be the 100% natural go-to for a huge majority of people.
"No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." - Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

Eldarion_Velator's Avatar


Eldarion_Velator
05.05.2017 , 12:50 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Kolskeggur View Post
when there's several of them, they're hard to counter... except by OP scout pilots (they're not a majority) or other gunships
This is often the case, but not for the reasons you might think. A gunship wall is perceived as hard to counter (just as entrenched weapons emplacements with overlapping fields of fire are hard to counter) because countering requires some tactical adaptation and somewhat risky behavior. Newer pilots get frustrated by this because 1) they haven't actually gotten used to getting shot at/destroyed to the point of being able to shrug it off and retain target discipline, and 2) they haven't yet developed the thinking/experience needed to understand gunship weaknesses and exploiting these to their advantage.

The primary weakness of all gunships is close-range combat. Some gunship pilots are better than others at managing this weakness, but the fact remains that within 4000m everything becomes a serious threat to gunships. Most gunship pilots will move when they take damage or are under threat of taking damage (e.g. another gunship pilot gets the drop on them, or when an opposing pilot is within 4000m and bearing down). This neutralizes them as a threat, but as soon as they're allowed to settle again they're dangerous again. The nice thing is that you don't have to be an OP scout pilot to rattle an entire team of gunships into moving, thereby neutralizing their ability to destroy your team. You just need to survive long enough to get them moving and therefore not overlapping their fire/covering each other (yes, it helps if there are at least 2 pilots doing this, but 1 good pilot can achieve this alone), which makes them easier targets for anyone on your team who chooses to support your formation scattering tactic (even if they don't, at least you've drastically reduced the threat the gunships posed while you survived). Good gunship pilots will have stronger target discipline, won't get rattled, and can still be a threat while moving (or snap in and resume becoming a threat again quicker), but that speaks more towards individual pilot ability/personality than any inherent advantage of the gunship.

The real question, then, is how one goes about actually disrupting a formation of gunship pilots whose ships are more or less fully upgraded (and have the crew members most suited to their role). Scouts, in particular the T1 (Novadive/Blackbolt) and T2 (Flashfire/Sting), are ideally suited to this because 1) they can have high evasion, which increases their likelihood of actually surviving long enough to get in close range with gunships; 2) they have high speed, which helps them close distance gaps faster than many gunship pilots can adjust; and 3) with sensor dampening equipped, good scout pilots can avoid being seen while executing a wide flanking maneuver. Strikes have none of these advantages, which is why they are usually not good at intercepting gunships unless those gunships get within 7500m (either because they moved close to get a better shot at a target, or the strike pilot was able to take advantage of a distracted gunship pilot to get that close). Bombers, like strikes, can only really take advantage of gunship close-range weaknesses if the gunship pilots themselves get close, or if a distracted gunship pilot fails to see a bomber closing the gap (hyperspace beacons play a huge role in helping bombers and strikes close gaps on gunships in this regard). But again, all of these things have everything to do with pilot ability/experience and little or nothing to do with ship class advantages/disadvantages.
Primary characters (on the Shadowlands):
Tae-gun Jiinara Dal-ben Nyo-jin

Itania Vydan Marevia Tal'narus

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
05.06.2017 , 03:57 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Eldarion_Velator View Post
A gunship wall is perceived as hard to counter (just as entrenched weapons emplacements with overlapping fields of fire are hard to counter) because countering requires some tactical adaptation and somewhat risky behavior.
A gunship wall is harder to counter than any other tactic in the game because when built right it has very few exploitable flaws. If an enemy team spawns too many bombers, gunships can take them out from a safe distance. If they spawn too many scouts, bombers are the natural answer (railgun drones ignore evasion, seeker mines force tem to save their cooldowns).

However, a couple of bombers and the rest of the team in gunships cannot be easily countered by any other composition. Scouts are forced to pop distortion field when approaching a good gunship or they will be shot en route. This only leaves them with a single missile break, even though they'll usually be flying straight into a nest of seekers (not to mention the Condor/Jurgoran has cluster missiles). Once they've used both cooldowns, they are forced to retreat and wait for them to refresh. A good gunship will simply kite through DF and then shoot you. You can't endlessly chase them because you'll die to other gunships, or bomber ordinance. You can only maintain your stay in enemy nests for a maximum of 6 seconds. After DF wears off, good gunships will kill you.

Quote:
The real question, then, is how one goes about actually disrupting a formation of gunship pilots whose ships are more or less fully upgraded (and have the crew members most suited to their role). Scouts, in particular the T1 (Novadive/Blackbolt) and T2 (Flashfire/Sting), are ideally suited to this because 1) they can have high evasion, which increases their likelihood of actually surviving long enough to get in close range with gunships; 2) they have high speed, which helps them close distance gaps faster than many gunship pilots can adjust; and 3) with sensor dampening equipped, good scout pilots can avoid being seen while executing a wide flanking maneuver. Strikes have none of these advantages, which is why they are usually not good at intercepting gunships unless those gunships get within 7500m (either because they moved close to get a better shot at a target, or the strike pilot was able to take advantage of a distracted gunship pilot to get that close). Bombers, like strikes, can only really take advantage of gunship close-range weaknesses if the gunship pilots themselves get close, or if a distracted gunship pilot fails to see a bomber closing the gap (hyperspace beacons play a huge role in helping bombers and strikes close gaps on gunships in this regard). But again, all of these things have everything to do with pilot ability/experience and little or nothing to do with ship class advantages/disadvantages.
I mostly agree with this. However, sensor dampening will usually be useless, and taking a long detour in order to deroost enemy gunships is not worth the time in my opinion. Sensor dampening will be useless because you won't be able to hide inside 15k of their focus cone, meaning they can see you where it's important. Furthermore, taking a long detour takes you out of the match for a longer time than it takes them, meaning you're gimping your own team by doing that (even if they can't see you approaching on the minimap, which the most probably can).

As stated however, using your evasion cooldowns in order to make your approach means you won't be able to stay in for long.

Fact is, gunships are complimentary to each other because they cover both close and long-range effectively. A bomber or two can fill in the rest. In TDM (and TDM only, domination is a different matter) scouts won't win a match against a competent bomber + gunship combo.

HuaRya's Avatar


HuaRya
05.17.2017 , 08:04 AM | #30
In recent weeks there has been an effective strategy to rush the other side at the beginning of a match with strikes and scouts. Before the gunships have any time to organize they are blitzed at their spawn. If the blitz team can make it over to other teams spawn they can rack up 20-30 kills for a point lead by focusing down
I grok in fullness.
― Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land