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Class Changes: Vengeance Juggernaut / Vigilance Guardian


EricMusco

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Hey folks,

 

Below are the changes that are coming to Vengeance and Vigilance in Game Update 5.5:

 

Note: All changes below are currently in development and are subject to change before being released.

 

Juggernaut

  • The damage done by Chilling Scream due to the Piercing Chill utility has been reduced by 60%

Vengeance

  • Increased the bleed damage bonus given by Bloodmaster per bleeding effect from 3% to 5%, now stacking up to 15%
  • Increased the melee bonus damage given by Ravager from 3% to 5%
  • Draining Scream now deals 45% more damage

 

Guardian

  • The damage done by Freezing Force due to the Persistent Chill utility has been reduced by 60%

Vigilance

  • Increased the burn damage bonus given by Burnmaster per burning effect from 3% to 5%, now stacking up to 15%
  • Increased the melee bonus damage given by Master Focus from 3% to 5%
  • Burning Blade now deals 45% more damage

 

DevNotes: Chilling Scream / Freezing Force was doing too much damage with the Piercing Chill / Persistent Chill utility. It was being used as a single-target rotational ability when it’s intended use was multi-target AOE, so we reduced the damage it deals with Piercing Chill / Persistent Chill. To make up for part of the DPS loss, we increased the damage of Draining Scream / Burning Blade by 45%. Then to make up for the rest of the DPS needed to bring Vengeance / Vigilance in line with its DPS target, we increased periodic damage and overall melee damage through two passive abilities.

-eric

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So Rage Juggys take a hit with Chilling Scream as well, but nothing to compensate this loss of DPS? Only Vengeance gets it rebalanced?

 

Take a chill pill man, if they changed something for all juggs and not just adjust it for a single spec, it means that all roles of that class were overperforming with that specific ability.

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Take a chill pill man, if they changed something for all juggs and not just adjust it for a single spec, it means that all roles of that class were overperforming with that specific ability.

 

Freezing Force is overtuned, no questions asked. However, it really helps Focus to pull the numbers.

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These look like great changes, the class needed a small buff to single target sustain and a small nerf to AoE, these changes are most likely going to result in just that, good job! :)

 

60 % is a small nerf? what exactly is a large nerf for you? this is just another edition in BW overnerfing AOEs.

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Take a chill pill man, if they changed something for all juggs and not just adjust it for a single spec, it means that all roles of that class were overperforming with that specific ability.

 

What on Earth gave you the impression I was excited? Please take your own chill pill, you obviously need it more than anyone else here, LOL

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60 % is a small nerf? what exactly is a large nerf for you? this is just another edition in BW overnerfing AOEs.

 

Well, I am certain he doesn't play a Jugg or Guardian, and has been getting wrecked by them in PVP, lol (although he is certain to claim otherwise) hehehehe

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What on Earth gave you the impression I was excited? Please take your own chill pill, you obviously need it more than anyone else here, LOL

The fact that you overlooked the most obvious aspect of this, we have yet to see the changes for Rage, I am not allowed to say too much on the topic, but I think that before you go full panic mode, wait for the Rage adjustments ;)

 

60 % is a small nerf? what exactly is a large nerf for you? this is just another edition in BW overnerfing AOEs.

 

I think it's pretty clear that the Chillin Scream utility is overperforming a lot for all Jugg specs and that it needed to be readjusted to ensure it is used for multiple target and not for single target.

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The fact that you overlooked the most obvious aspect of this, we have yet to see the changes for Rage, I am not allowed to say too much on the topic, but I think that before you go full panic mode, wait for the Rage adjustments ;)

 

I have been waiting for so much, for so long, that I have learned to reduce my expectations to zero. I am *not* holding my breath, LOL.

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Most importantly the team should look at fixing Pooled Hatred utility for the next dcd/utility patch. It really hampers the discipline with its dps performance in ranked pvp.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=885650 Please look at Nightrain's thread.

 

Also I think that Ravage should hit much harder, I'd even be happy to see chilling scream aoe go away completely.

Bloodmaster 15% from 9% is v. nice. Not happy with burning blade buff. It is very short in duration and difficult to dotspread due to it. I'd rather see Shatter's / Plasma Brand's damage over-time damage increased. The spec was just fine during 4.0 pts testing, nerf bat it received was unjustified. You should look back at Shatter back then.

 

Also with nerfing Chilling Scream dot you are affecting dps output of both Rage and Defense disciplines. You need to adjust for that appropriately!

Edited by Alec_Fortescue
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The fact that you overlooked the most obvious aspect of this, we have yet to see the changes for Rage, I am not allowed to say too much on the topic, but I think that before you go full panic mode, wait for the Rage adjustments ;)

 

 

 

I think it's pretty clear that the Chillin Scream utility is overperforming a lot for all Jugg specs and that it needed to be readjusted to ensure it is used for multiple target and not for single target.

 

60% is not a "readjustment". it is a castration. If they dont want it in single target, there are so many better ways than making it not worth using it all. This is the exact same idiotic reasoning they used for every other AOE overnerf. Are you trying to tell us they were ALL overtuned by the exact same amount? and that the devs just didnt notice for a couple of years that this one was overtuned by the same amount? They are using their same cut and paste lie to try to excuse their destroying another AOE. Most players are smart enough to recognize bs from bw when they see it.

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Lowering the damage of an AoE ability so it is used as an AoE ability instead of being part of the standard single target rotation makes sense at least to me, I struggle to comprehend how you are unable to understand that simple readjustment. Regardless if the adjustment is by 60% or 6%, an AoE ability shouldn't deal more damage to one target than a single target ability, lol.
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Lowering the damage of an AoE ability so it is used as an AoE ability instead of being part of the standard single target rotation makes sense at least to me, I struggle to comprehend how you are unable to understand that simple readjustment. Regardless if the adjustment is by 60% or 6%, an AoE ability shouldn't deal more damage to one target than a single target ability, lol.

 

Making the aoe so weak that NO ONE uses it for any number of targets is not a good solution. This should be simple for you to understand. increase the resource cost or some other way. this is the exact same excuse they used the times they destroyed the other signature aoes of other classes.

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Lowering the damage of an AoE ability so it is used as an AoE ability instead of being part of the standard single target rotation makes sense at least to me, I struggle to comprehend how you are unable to understand that simple readjustment. Regardless if the adjustment is by 60% or 6%, an AoE ability shouldn't deal more damage to one target than a single target ability, lol.

 

The only abilities that chilling scream does more damage to a single target (with the ultility) that I can see are the basic, rage building attacks.... Assault and Sundering Assault.

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Making the aoe so weak that NO ONE uses it for any number of targets is not a good solution. This should be simple for you to understand. increase the resource cost or some other way. this is the exact same excuse they used the times they destroyed the other signature aoes of other classes.

 

It's meant to be a filler ability for AoE DPS in situations where your other key abilities are on cooldown, sure this does bring it down to a level where it's very situational, but I don't see that as a bad thing, in particular with this ability it's meant to be situational.

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Draining Scream, is that the miniscule damage dot which gets tacked onto Force Scream?

 

This doesn't sound so much like some slight tweaking as a massive DPS hit for PVP.

 

I'm not opposed to shifting damage from the utility to the core spec (poor immortal), but these changes don't seem like they will achieve that.

 

Maybe if it was a 450% increase to Draining Scream. That might offset a 60% decrease to the utility.

 

I think it's pretty clear that the Chillin Scream utility is overperforming a lot for all Jugg specs and that it needed to be readjusted to ensure it is used for multiple target and not for single target.
A 10% nerf would have achieved that.

 

Beyond which, the reason for using it in single is that it's elemental damage, and that it has a slow, on a class with no other sources of elemental damage (and no internal outside of vengeance), and no other source of slow (outside of vengeance).

 

Regardless if the adjustment is by 60% or 6%, an AoE ability shouldn't deal more damage to one target than a single target ability, lol.
What ability was it dealing more damage than? Assault and Sundering Assault? Why balance around how baddies misuse an ability? Edited by Ansultares
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I mostly concerned about tanking. This ability made trash pulls a little easier for jugg tanks to at least come close to the aoe threat generation of sins and PTs. Seems a tad overboard to me.

 

Although that is a fair point, I think that you will be able to maintain aggro anyway even following these changes, you simply just need to readjust your group approach trash if you feel it's wiping your group. Ensure that your DPS focuses specific targets or that you (and your co-tank if in an Ops) alternate who uses AoE taunt on which pack of adds and of course, that you are correctly using your abilities and taunt/threat.

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