It takes THREE dps to global an average player WITH a good healer.

There could be potentially 6+ GOOD players all stacking their burst on you in ranked 8 v 8's.

Unranked warzones feel more accessible to average players because most good players do not queue for it.

Here's an example of the skill difference: I queue a lot of warzones on my operative and I play objectives. My win/loss ratio is around 4:1. My ranked arena won/loss is 3:2. Objectives == PvP skill??????

The point is that objectives in this game is not hard when everyone is absolutely horrible. I've literally pulled off 3 v 1's (all full health) on my marauder when learning a new discipline.

Imagine those 2 - 3 ranked players who focus you every arena. Now imagine that there are 6 - 7 of them, Now imagine if they stack classes (AP PTs or Carnage marauders for example).

Imagine if they all focus fired on you WITH all of their auto-crits. Or do you think you'll be off guarding a node while two reaver-level duelists creep up to you in stealth?

I've seen my health go from 70k - 0 in two gcds from two good dps. I don't want to get globalled off the game with 5 - 6 burst specs stacking on me at the same time. Only reason why it doesn't happen in regs is because they're all bad/casual players who play it.

It takes THREE dps to global an average player WITH a good healer.

 

There could be potentially 6+ GOOD players all stacking their burst on you in ranked 8 v 8's.

stopped reading here.

8v8 has 2 healers. probably 2 tanks. at least one. and you can hide a weaker player or assign him a task that only requires calling out for help (node guard).

first of all, you have 2 healers 2 tanks, 4 dps (possible 1 tank and 5 dps). 2 healers aren't dpsing. 1 tank is but is more concerned with peeling. the other tank is probably node guarding (unless you want to dump a dps there?). so the most you have is 4 dps. that's 4 dps trying to burst through a guard and two healers. I could face tank that stuff on my arsenal merc. and all of that while keeping an eye on the objectives. if you wanna tunnel my arsenal merc, maybe I'll just back up toward spawn (NC, CW, VS). now you have 3-4 dps abandoning their healer/tank and node.

I'm not saying you don't ever kill off the dps. but let me put it like this: I played 8v8 ranked against cap and devil and their guild, and they weren't cutting players down with systematic efficiency even though they were clearly better than me.

the problem with solo ranked 8's is that the the greater the number of teammates, the more meaningless the assigned rank becomes. whereas grp ranked, you're going to have more or less the same ppl on the team, so the rank will be much more accurate (it's a team rank that an individual wears). the problem with ranked 8's in general is that it requires TWICE as many places to push a a pop. it's a numbers game. meanwhile, the same attrition that we see in arenas we will also see in WZs. the problem isn't numbers or objectives/TDM. the problem is a static/complacent combat team. if they don't change things up regularly, then the pecking order will never change, and queues will continue to dwindle as the "season" moves on.

queues will continue to dwindle as the "season" moves on.

Ques already dwindle just because people lose some points on their precious rank, soon they hit wathever min they get they stop quing cause are in panic to lose points, so they just don't q more or then go play alts whatever

It takes THREE dps to global an average player WITH a good healer.

 

There could be potentially 6+ GOOD players all stacking their burst on you in ranked 8 v 8's.

 

Unranked warzones feel more accessible to average players because most good players do not queue for it.

 

Here's an example of the skill difference: I queue a lot of warzones on my operative and I play objectives. My win/loss ratio is around 4:1. My ranked arena won/loss is 3:2. Objectives == PvP skill??????

 

The point is that objectives in this game is not hard when everyone is absolutely horrible. I've literally pulled off 3 v 1's (all full health) on my marauder when learning a new discipline.

 

Imagine those 2 - 3 ranked players who focus you every arena. Now imagine that there are 6 - 7 of them, Now imagine if they stack classes (AP PTs or Carnage marauders for example).

Imagine if they all focus fired on you WITH all of their auto-crits. Or do you think you'll be off guarding a node while two reaver-level duelists creep up to you in stealth?

 

 

I've seen my health go from 70k - 0 in two gcds from two good dps. I don't want to get globalled off the game with 5 - 6 burst specs stacking on me at the same time. Only reason why it doesn't happen in regs is because they're all bad/casual players who play it.

Some people are just better at 8v8 while others are good at 4v4, some who do 4v4 get rekt in 8v8, some that do 8v8 aren't good at 4v4. its just how it is.

Some people are just better at 8v8 while others are good at 4v4, some who do 4v4 get rekt in 8v8, some that do 8v8 aren't good at 4v4. its just how it is.

I've never seen a high-rated arena star "get rekt" in 8 v 8. Players just aren't good enough there xDD

So there are more people to carry them.

^Basically sums it up

Because in 4v4 - unbalanced teams and lack of class balance are spread a bit more evenly in 8v8 - plus better tactics come into play. 4v4 is just a mess and worse, outside of ranked.

But 4v4 is just so popular, which is why it hardly pops.

Because in 4v4 - unbalanced teams and lack of class balance are spread a bit more evenly in 8v8 - plus better tactics come into play. 4v4 is just a mess and worse, outside of ranked.

 

But 4v4 is just so popular, which is why it hardly pops.

balance class around 4v4 is awfull idea, and without talking the past 8v8 ranked pvp in wz in this game is mostly team work, sadly even many deny , in the end what most of players want is their class being able to own the other opponent.

Arenas are not for all classes/specs, any class can go? ofc but will be under performing in relation to others, and to balance it for arenas wich is bad idea can end up making it broken for unranked, and about being popular? ofc it is that is why 80% of player base at least for sure stay away from them

It takes THREE dps to global an average player WITH a good healer.

 

There could be potentially 6+ GOOD players all stacking their burst on you in ranked 8 v 8's.

 

Unranked warzones feel more accessible to average players because most good players do not queue for it.

 

Here's an example of the skill difference: I queue a lot of warzones on my operative and I play objectives. My win/loss ratio is around 4:1. My ranked arena won/loss is 3:2. Objectives == PvP skill??????

 

The point is that objectives in this game is not hard when everyone is absolutely horrible. I've literally pulled off 3 v 1's (all full health) on my marauder when learning a new discipline.

 

Imagine those 2 - 3 ranked players who focus you every arena. Now imagine that there are 6 - 7 of them, Now imagine if they stack classes (AP PTs or Carnage marauders for example).

Imagine if they all focus fired on you WITH all of their auto-crits. Or do you think you'll be off guarding a node while two reaver-level duelists creep up to you in stealth?

 

 

I've seen my health go from 70k - 0 in two gcds from two good dps. I don't want to get globalled off the game with 5 - 6 burst specs stacking on me at the same time. Only reason why it doesn't happen in regs is because they're all bad/casual players who play it.

You are judging 8v8 with Arena mechanics (class stacking, burst, the need to kill another char as fast as possible).

It sounds to me like comparing appleas with pears, but insisting on the taste of apples being not at all like the taste of pears (and pears should have that kind of taste, you argue).

Ques already dwindle just because people lose some points on their precious rank, soon they hit wathever min they get they stop quing cause are in panic to lose points, so they just don't q more or then go play alts whatever

I'm not sure if you misread me or chose to misrepresent me by taking the quote out of context, but when I said "will continue to dwindle" I was referring to ranked queues from the days of 8v8 to every season of arenas. nothing has changed. nothing. you may look back longingly to 8v8 "preseason" (it wasn't a preseason. it had rewards and ranks. just no leaderboards). the thing is, the same trends occurred in 8v8 that happen in every season of arenas: lot of ppl queue the first 3 weeks...things dwindle down as a pecking order is established. no balanced changes to mix things up. season goes on. same ppl win. same ppl lose. ppl who lose stop queuing. now new grp starts losing. they stop queuing. all this until finally there's just a handful of ppl in the queue. that is exactly what happened in 8v8 ranked.

balance class around 4v4 is awfull idea,

balancing around 4v4 is what this game has always done. it's a role/class system. each class is divided into a role. each role fills a (erm) role. those roles haven't changed. it's a trinity system. balancing around that isn't the problem. 4v4 simply highlights the imbalances between classes more. but this game has always been predicated on the trinity system. and when that's present, most specs are ok. and every class is ok. the problem is that 90+ percent of this game's pvp is played without role balance, let alone proper trinity ratios.

TL;DR: balancing around solo ranked is a terrible idea. balancing around 4v4 is fine.

Cause quite alot people think rank means everything, and anyone with less then them is not good, ranked is mostly about ego for self satisfaction, fun? what is that?

opinions are formed through experiences and yours may be biased but thats okay.

Some people actually enjoy the competition against equal or better skilled players, (it's not always about ego) Ranked is a platform for that to exist. Steam rolling lesser skilled opponents can be pretty boring.

Self Satisfaction...the reason why anyone plays any game. Why else would we play it? Though there are Trolls who enjoy upsetting peoples games but you're not going to escape this in any aspect of life, it's easier to ignore them in a game than in the workplace.

I'm not sure if you misread me or chose to misrepresent me by taking the quote out of context, but when I said "will continue to dwindle" I was referring to ranked queues from the days of 8v8 to every season of arenas. nothing has changed. nothing. you may look back longingly to 8v8 "preseason" (it wasn't a preseason. it had rewards and ranks. just no leaderboards). the thing is, the same trends occurred in 8v8 that happen in every season of arenas: lot of ppl queue the first 3 weeks...things dwindle down as a pecking order is established. no balanced changes to mix things up. season goes on. same ppl win. same ppl lose. ppl who lose stop queuing. now new grp starts losing. they stop queuing. all this until finally there's just a handful of ppl in the queue. that is exactly what happened in 8v8 ranked.

 

balancing around 4v4 is what this game has always done. it's a role/class system. each class is divided into a role. each role fills a (erm) role. those roles haven't changed. it's a trinity system. balancing around that isn't the problem. 4v4 simply highlights the imbalances between classes more. but this game has always been predicated on the trinity system. and when that's present, most specs are ok. and every class is ok. the problem is that 90+ percent of this game's pvp is played without role balance, let alone proper trinity ratios.

 

TL;DR: balancing around solo ranked is a terrible idea. balancing around 4v4 is fine.

majority of the players dont do ranked, and buff or nerf classes based on that is wrong cause will make them overpower or under power for unranked, just more class stacking and making unjoyable the matches, you really wanna balance them just based on an extreme minority of the player base?

opinions are formed through experiences and yours may be biased but thats okay.

Some people actually enjoy the competition against equal or better skilled players, (it's not always about ego) Ranked is a platform for that to exist. Steam rolling lesser skilled opponents can be pretty boring.

Self Satisfaction...the reason why anyone plays any game. Why else would we play it? Though there are Trolls who enjoy upsetting peoples games but you're not going to escape this in any aspect of life, it's easier to ignore them in a game than in the workplace.

well i play to get fun with friends, not talking how amazing i am or look at my huge rank etc, there is trolls everywhere true and i dont give a duck about them but not everyone deals with them same way and yes they have impact on people stop doing it, just a small example is how a merc healer is trashed soon he land on arena match, anyway is a dead end talking on this subject this was just my opinion, they already said no plans to bring back 8v8, sorry but if people are looking serious hardcore competition is not on swtor they will found it, this is a casual game now accepting or not and keep pressing on past is up to each one.

majority of the players dont do ranked, and buff or nerf classes based on that is wrong cause will make them overpower or under power for unranked, just more class stacking and making unjoyable the matches, you really wanna balance them just based on an extreme minority of the player base?

are you departmentalizing 8v8 = reg. 4v4 = ranked? because both formats are regs.

are you conflating reg arenas with ranked arenas? because I assure you, they are nothing alike (nor did ranked WZs play anything like reg WZs when 8v8 ranked was a thing).

maybe you're one of those ppl who quits every reg arena so therefore reg arenas don't count as regs? iunno. I'm speculating here. I know I usually leave queshball as soon as it pops and I'll leave odessen pretty frequently upon entering. but...you know...they're still WZs in my mind. iunno. spit-balling here.

to be honest, your reply sounds more like "they need to balance around the average player not the great player." to which I reply, "ok. that's a balance discussion. but it has nothing to do with arena vs. WZ or matchmaking/role balance"

Because 8 vs 8 is objective based.

Because Class differentiation actually has effect.

Because just dps focusing won't work against the game mechanics and objectives.

Because specs that need those mechanics can contribute to team success - Virulense, Lethality, Pyro, Anni.

There is no weak spec in 8 vs 8.

4 vs 4 never supported the full game abilities.

If you think a good 4vs4 Player is automatically a good 8vs8 Player you are Definitely wrong.

In 4vs4 grp ranked you need to use your defs very carefully and you have to try to force your opponent team to Pop their defs = no more defs = win.

1 kill decides.

In 8vs8 you can keep your defs for some Situations.

For example if your team has got both turrets and more pressure - why you Should Pop defs inflationary? - instead just die once and keep them for a Situation when the opponent team starts to pressure harder.

In 8vs8 you have to do constant dps/healing/guarding take care of your turrets - move fast from one node to the other.

Not everyone is able to do that otherwise not everyone is able to play Arenas.

I have Seen very good Arena players who are not able to carry a Huttball and i have Seen super 8vs8 players who are not able to Pop their defs in the right Moment (arena) and die in an instant.

For players who are not able to do high numbers is 8vs8 a better way to shine because in 8vs8 you cannot win by pure DPS. If you do not have map awarness and movement - you lose. Thats a matter of fact - My 8vs8 guild and i learned that the hard way ^^

If I would compare 4vs4 and 8vs8 with soccer or Basketball -

I would say 4vs4 is more streetsoccer or streetball and 8vs8 is more like real soccer or real Basketball. Both are good in their own way.

But I wish we could have the possibility to decide.

I've never seen a high-rated arena star "get rekt" in 8 v 8. Players just aren't good enough there xDD

I have.

There is a chunk of players that aren't even proper pvpers that enter wzs, and obviously they are bad. The rest are the pvpers of various skill, experience and pvp shape, and you can expect to get rekt if you **** up or if the odds are against you.

All this is kinda obvious. You are not a very bright person are you?

I played both ranked 8s and ranked 4s. For me, 8s was far, far more fun. It encouraged a wider range of classes and specs rather than the incredibly narrow cookie cutter builds we see today.

completely agree

Anyway hope dies last - so maybe one day in 2025

Because specs that need those mechanics can contribute to team success - Virulense, Lethality, Pyro, Anni.

There is no weak spec in 8 vs 8.

this makes me wonder if you ever 8v8 ranked. because it's patently false.

you could carry weak specs just like you can carry weak players more easily in 8v8 because -- wait for it -- it's 8v8. they're literally half as important to your 8m team as they were to your 4m team. objective also allow weaker players to hide. any idiot can sit in stealth and make voice calls. very little skill/talent involved. just a little training.

I'm not against 8v8 or objective oriented ranked. really. I'm not. I want it too. but the way some of you eulogize the 8v8 ranked days as if it was this tree-hugging hippy, garden of pvp eden is fecking ridiculous.

and the ppl asking for solo queue ranked 8v8s are particularly off their rockers.

and the ppl asking for solo queue ranked 8v8s are particularly off their rockers.

i am not even sure why people want ranked of any kind in this game.

We should be happy there is any PvP at all, and the wzs are not dead... yet.

balance class around 4v4 is awfull idea, and without talking the past 8v8 ranked pvp in wz in this game is mostly team work, sadly even many deny , in the end what most of players want is their class being able to own the other opponent.

Arenas are not for all classes/specs, any class can go? ofc but will be under performing in relation to others, and to balance it for arenas wich is bad idea can end up making it broken for unranked, and about being popular? ofc it is that is why 80% of player base at least for sure stay away from them

That's not what I said. 4v4 is a mess. It's a mess because Bioware have made zero attempts to balance combat. Then, throw in lack of class balance(4 stealth in 1 game for example - but this could have changed as I haven't done arena after day 1 of them arriving due to lack of balance).

Face facts - Bioware are not going to balance combat, unless they wake up and do their jobs. As for 8v8s, they WERE popular. Infact - when server transfers launched, the majority of pvp'ers (EU) transferred to Tofn to take part in 8v8 ranked. Then Bioware had yet another brilliant idea and removed 8v8 and over night, 80% of the pvp player base left with it.

Bioware still hate the pvp community for not adopting the Cartel Coined GSF so its like punishment and payback.