Doesn't stop you does it?

 

I'll post wherever the hell I want. You got problem with that, do something.

 

I'll tell you what I, and many other people see. You calling for nerfs on everyone but yourself. That's what I see and that's why your *** O. I'm the guy who was speaking out in favor or Sorcs getting some love until you and some of your pals decided the best way to improve your lot was at the expense of everyone else whether or not they deserved it.

 

Not only, are you calling for everyone around you to get nerfed, not only are you asking for a buff, you are your cronies want a second buff already, and you want lightning spec to get nerfed, when they are in a worser position than you are. You have the balls to ask for burst damage while asking for nerfs from the burst spec.

 

Sustained specs shouldn't have high burst. Lightning should.

 

Your so selfish in your attempts, you wanna step on your own people to do it.

 

I hate to break it to you, but Sorcs are never going to be top tier DPS in this game.

 

But keep on trying to win support for your cause by trying to rip everyone else down. Lets see how good that works of for you.

 

They may very well rip melee apart, but even if they do, the same melee classes that have higher DPS than you do now, still will have higher DPS than you.

 

The fact is, as bad a situation as sorc DPS legimately is in in some cases. I know a few Sorc DPS on the shadowlands who will out DPS every mara, assy, a merc that comes along. The potential is there. You're just not as good as they are. It isn't all about the class and numbers, it's just as much about the people that pay them. There is one of them that out DPSes everyone almost every single time, and great players at that.

 

But Keep dreaming you'll do more rDPS than Snipers specs will.

U dont play sorc at all u have no idea that u tallking about. This "good" sorcs from the shadowlands live most of the in US and have ping like 10-30 and with lightning bug sure they can do good. Im on TRE with ping 90-100 cant do the same. so i suggest u to shut up we dont want to rip ur mara we just want justice

I appreciate your honesty. Most of the DPS sorcs who are getting 9500+ on a dummy aren't being forthcoming how long it's actually taking them to get outstanding RNG. Even 9300 as madness is a good parse and likely features good crits.

 

Arsenal, meanwhile, has been amazingly consistent, and so has IO. Average arsenal parse is 9100 and pretty much always between 9000-9200. Same with IO (9600-9800). Both sorc specs are varying wildly between 9100-9500 for me. I haven't parsed Sniper yet, but I feel there's way too much variance with sorc specs atm.

Madness should be straight forward enough actually, similar to other classes you can get epic crits on upward of the "hit range" of your abilties, when your relic are procced etc etc etc.

But Lightning has the 25% chance to proc a 2nd hit for 25% damage on nearly all its rotationnal abilities. And those proc have of course a chance to crit (safe TB's one that is always a crit) etc. So its in part why you see some crazy variance.

While part of the fun of playing lightning is seeing those proc go nuts under polarity shift and people panic over the ton of lightning coming their way and their health plummetting (when done right) it would probably help to "balance" the class correctly if they took out the rng from it, and introduced the average extra dps from it as standard damage.

A lot of the high legit parses have both some rather nice crit rates on key abilities, but a quite high % of procs.

Tbh I'm at the point I mostly discard 2.5M dummy as totally accurate. We should definitely be using the 4M dummy for accurate result over where the dps of a spec truly is, 2.5M is mostly RNG bragging at this point.

I lack the patience to wack a dummy other than to train my rotation, and typically am tired of doing it after 2-3 tries, so you won't see me often in the top 3 spot, but I'd like it if more people did the 4M dummy, as the RNG from a 6 minute 30 s parse is not going to be as marked as on a 4 min one.

There's a reason when we first started parsing we were aiming for 5 min to get a decent benchmark.

Doesn't stop you does it?

 

I'll post wherever the hell I want. You got problem with that, do something.

 

I'll tell you what I, and many other people see. You calling for nerfs on everyone but yourself. That's what I see and that's why your *** O. I'm the guy who was speaking out in favor or Sorcs getting some love until you and some of your pals decided the best way to improve your lot was at the expense of everyone else whether or not they deserved it.

 

Not only, are you calling for everyone around you to get nerfed, not only are you asking for a buff, you are your cronies want a second buff already, and you want lightning spec to get nerfed, when they are in a worser position than you are. You have the balls to ask for burst damage while asking for nerfs from the burst spec.

 

Sustained specs shouldn't have high burst. Lightning should.

 

Your so selfish in your attempts, you wanna step on your own people to do it.

 

I hate to break it to you, but Sorcs are never going to be top tier DPS in this game.

 

But keep on trying to win support for your cause by trying to rip everyone else down. Lets see how good that works of for you.

 

They may very well rip melee apart, but even if they do, the same melee classes that have higher DPS than you do now, still will have higher DPS than you.

 

The fact is, as bad a situation as sorc DPS legimately is in in some cases. I know a few Sorc DPS on the shadowlands who will out DPS every mara, assy, a merc that comes along. The potential is there. You're just not as good as they are. It isn't all about the class and numbers, it's just as much about the people that pay them. There is one of them that out DPSes everyone almost every single time, and great players at that.

 

But Keep dreaming you'll do more rDPS than Snipers specs will.

okay dude. calm down a little would you? it's sometimes really entertaining watching people blow up like this on forums, really. but most of the time it's even kind of sad. We're ALL entitled to have an opinion. And no, i for one would rather they get madness up on par with the disciplines they themselves stated it should do comparable numbers with.

I mean really, what's wrong with us wanting to do more dps than a viru sniper??:eek:

BioWare themselves said that: Concealment, AP, Rage, Deception, Engineering, I.O., Carnage & Madness - the melee burst & ranged sustained. should all be AT TARGET DPS. While virulence should be doing target DPS -2.5%.

Now do I want them to nerf everything else so we can look good at their expense? HELL NO.

But that IS indeed the track record for 5.3 instead of giving madness a good buff, they decided to nerf arsenal, engi, I.O. and viru. so really, while i'd love it to be balanced out through buffs a small part of me is suspecting they might not go that way.

At the end of the day we do not actually know what the target DPS is, so we don't really know how close / far off we actually are of course and true, we don't have as much data available as our devs obviously.

If you say your friends are so awesome at madness sorc.... maybe they should upload some parses... or better yet write the dulfy guide for the spec? we would love to have a up-to-date one for sure

Average parse for arsenal being 9100? I very much doubt you're getting that especially when you're top parse is barely breaking that when using ttk and there is only even 1 parse above that. I don't disagree that madness needs to be buffed more because it's sustained damage is still very bad (and deathmark still isn't fixed), but if you're going to argue, don't make outrageous claims that are easily fact checked (arsenal was also way overnerfed so there's that too).

I did five parses. They were approximately 8950, 9170, 9150, 9100, and 9040. I did terminate two other parses early because of lag spikes so I didn't include them. I'm also missing about 2/3 of my mastery datacrons, so I assume I'm losing about 25-30 dps from that. I did get okay crits: 41-42 percent on all but the 8950 parse, and a high 44 percent crit but very poorly played 9100 parse. The average parse would probably be closer to 9000 than 9100. A competent min-maxed player with datacrons should be averaging at least 9k on a dummy once they nail down the use of rapid shots (e.g. rapid shots before blazing bolts if it procs supercharge and RS/HSM are still on cd).

The point I was making is that, because of the surge nerf, a lot of the variance was removed from arsenal's performance on a dummy. Both sorc specs seem to have more variance.

I did five parses. They were approximately 8950, 9170, 9150, 9100, and 9040. I did terminate two other parses early because of lag spikes so I didn't include them. I'm also missing about 2/3 of my mastery datacrons, so I assume I'm losing about 25-30 dps from that. I did get okay crits: 41-42 percent on all but the 8950 parse, and a high 44 percent crit but very poorly played 9100 parse. The average parse would probably be closer to 9000 than 9100. A competent min-maxed player with datacrons should be averaging at least 9k on a dummy once they nail down the use of rapid shots (e.g. rapid shots before blazing bolts if it procs supercharge and RS/HSM are still on cd).

 

The point I was making is that, because of the surge nerf, a lot of the variance was removed from arsenal's performance on a dummy. Both sorc specs seem to have more variance.

indeed. i'm by far not the best sorc around lol. and lol i think my max is like... 8.9k but the dps can be anywhere between 8.6 and 9 (for me at least atm) based on relic procs, overall crit & lag. :D:D

Chill honestly. are u trying to fistfight on forums lol? You shouldn't waste ur energy on nothing..

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/287347/0 carnage doing 10,5k

http://parsely.io/parser/view/287348/0 deception doing 10,5k

http://parsely.io/parser/view/298755/0 sorc doing 9,6k + with broken deathmark.

 

carnage and deception are burst dps so they should be in the same category with madness sorc

range sustained/melee burst. They must buff sorcs or nerf burst melee dps classes.

 

http://dulfy.net/2017/06/15/swtor-bioware-class-balance-happens/ here take a look

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/294641/0 operatives has to get a huge nerf. period.

 

I get support from people who actually play the class. This class was the most popular in a first place and nowadays it's a trash class because of 5.0 nerf. 5.3 didn't fix all the issues.

 

P.S. ur friends will not out dps maras on a Madness sorc. Stop lying. All good sorcs on shadowlands play lightning (some with the CL bug) and we are talking about madness here. I bet ur friends are not as good as u describe. Show me their parses on Madness sorc lol. ur are just trash talking

His name in Hoppi, he users the forums as well, you almost certainly have seen his posts in the sorc forum and sorc related threads. he out DPSs maras, Operatives, Assys and every other class and spec in the game as a DPS sorc. I have never even once seen him get out DPSed by anyone. If he is in the match, the best I can hope for is 2nd place.

Why you are under the impression that every spec in a category is supposed to do the same exact DPS is cannot fathom. Where exactly did they say that the DPS out put is exactly the same for all specs in a category? When has that ever been the case?

The day sorc DPS has the same baseline DPS as a Marauder, I'll quit the game.

Btw- Madness has higher DPS output than Lightning does.

His name in Hoppi, he users the forums as well, you almost certainly have seen his posts in the sorc forum and sorc related threads. he out DPSs maras, Operatives, Assys and every other class and spec in the game as a DPS sorc. I have never even once seen him get out DPSed by anyone. If he is in the match, the best I can hope for is 2nd place.

 

Why you are under the impression that every spec in a category is supposed to do the same exact DPS is cannot fathom. Where exactly did they say that the DPS out put is exactly the same for all specs in a category? When has that ever been the case?

 

The day sorc DPS has the same baseline DPS as a Marauder, I'll quit the game.

 

Btw- Madness has higher DPS output than Lightning does.

http://parsely.io/parser/view/300214/0 this is my parse.

and this is parse http://parsely.io/parser/view/298913/0 and this is hoppin parse

Me and Hoppin playing on the same level. He is a good sorc and he also wants madness sorc to be buffed.

Bioware promised us that madness sorc will be on the same category with range sustained dps classes and melee burst classes. So yeah Madness has to deal around the same damage as Carnage, Deception, IO, Engi. according to this http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9333043

You can quit the game no problem. I care about most of people that already quit the game and people who will quit if Bioware won't do what they promised to us.

His name in Hoppi, he users the forums as well, you almost certainly have seen his posts in the sorc forum and sorc related threads. he out DPSs maras, Operatives, Assys and every other class and spec in the game as a DPS sorc. I have never even once seen him get out DPSed by anyone. If he is in the match, the best I can hope for is 2nd place.

 

Why you are under the impression that every spec in a category is supposed to do the same exact DPS is cannot fathom. Where exactly did they say that the DPS out put is exactly the same for all specs in a category? When has that ever been the case?

 

The day sorc DPS has the same baseline DPS as a Marauder, I'll quit the game.

 

Btw- Madness has higher DPS output than Lightning does.

I think you aren't smart enough to undestand. Hoppi takes first places in pvp matchs we tallk about solo target dps in RAIDS not in pvp. BW can just buff ligthning strike and force lightning a little bit. we dont need any more aoe buff just fix deathmark and a small buff for solo target abilitis

the force management is so better for PvP. but the spec has no pressure damage. (dots can't be like before with the new amount of lifepoints we had with 5.0.)

dps buff was inefficient. i am sure BW didn't think to buff force management if we didn't express our feedback before 5.3 (seems they changed it just at last minute..)

so we have to continue saying the spec is not at his right dps place.

the force management is so better for PvP. but the spec has no pressure damage. (dots can't be like before with the new amount of lifepoints we had with 5.0.)

 

dps buff was inefficient. i am sure BW didn't think to buff force management if we didn't express our feedback before 5.3 (seems they changed it just at last minute..)

 

so we have to continue saying the spec is not at his right dps place.

that was the point of this thread, thx for ur support

I think you aren't smart enough to undestand. Hoppi takes first places in pvp matchs we tallk about solo target dps in RAIDS not in pvp. BW can just buff ligthning strike and force lightning a little bit. we dont need any more aoe buff just fix deathmark and a small buff for solo target abilitis

Fortunately for me, I don't care what you think. And it appears that you are not smart enough to understand there is no buffing or nerfing just for PVE or PVP. What you do for one effects both. It isn't enough just to consider the needs of PVE you have to consider the effects on PVP. You might not care about how it effects PVP, but I don't care about only the needs of PVE.

You got a buff, maybe it's not enough, but, it shouldn't be buffed again, until all the classes that are going to be nerfed or buffed are attended to the first time around for themselves.

You do not yet know where all the other specs are going to be at once they are all nerfed, buffed or left alone. It makes perfect sense that if BW knows certain changes to other specs are coming that they feel the buff to madness was appropriate because of where other specs will be in relation to them once they are adjusted.

I agree that all Sorc DPS should not have had their defenses touched until the other ranged dps specs have had their defenses adjusted. But until all the specs have had their first DPS adjustments, it would be premature to buff Madness a second time without knowing how it will stand in relation to the other specs once effected.

How about giving lightning it's first before you get a second instead of calling for nerfs on your sister spec, along with everyone else in the game that you want nerfed to up your standing, deserved or not.

Fortunately for me, I don't care what you think. And it appears that you are not smart enough to understand there is no buffing or nerfing just for PVE or PVP. What you do for one effects both. It isn't enough just to consider the needs of PVE you have to consider the effects on PVP. You might not care about how it effects PVP, but I don't care about only the needs of PVE.

 

You got a buff, maybe it's not enough, but, it shouldn't be buffed again, until all the classes that are going to be nerfed or buffed are attended to the first time around for themselves.

 

You do not yet know where all the other specs are going to be at once they are all nerfed, buffed or left alone. It makes perfect sense that if BW knows certain changes to other specs are coming that they feel the buff to madness was appropriate because of where other specs will be in relation to them once they are adjusted.

 

I agree that all Sorc DPS should not have had their defenses touched until the other ranged dps specs have had their defenses adjusted. But until all the specs have had their first DPS adjustments, it would be premature to buff Madness a second time without knowing how it will stand in relation to the other specs once effected.

 

How about giving lightning it's first before you get a second instead of calling for nerfs on your sister spec, along with everyone else in the game that you want nerfed to up your standing, deserved or not.

Good for us we don't care what u think neither. We care what Bioware think. Their buff was not enough and they said that they are going to adjust classes that underperforms or overperform after a patch.

According to Bioware's words http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9333043 BURST MELEE DPS has to be on the same line with Madness sorc, IO merc, Engi Sniper. Viru target dps is -2.5%.

So Bioware. We pay money to see changes. We look for changest in 5.4. Give us, sorc madness, a slight buff since the class underperforms and nerf burst mDPS since they overperfrom by 1k and some by 1.5k damage http://parsely.io/parser/stats

His name in Hoppi, he users the forums as well, you almost certainly have seen his posts in the sorc forum and sorc related threads. he out DPSs maras, Operatives, Assys and every other class and spec in the game as a DPS sorc. I have never even once seen him get out DPSed by anyone. If he is in the match, the best I can hope for is 2nd place.

 

Why you are under the impression that every spec in a category is supposed to do the same exact DPS is cannot fathom. Where exactly did they say that the DPS out put is exactly the same for all specs in a category? When has that ever been the case?

 

The day sorc DPS has the same baseline DPS as a Marauder, I'll quit the game.

 

Btw- Madness has higher DPS output than Lightning does.

1) according to the devs: lightning is SUPPOSED TO do 5% LESS than madness;

2) virulence is stated to do 2.5% less than target DPS.... while madness is apprently AT raget DPS, so yes it's kinda supposed to do 2.5% LESS than madness. (and when i say madness i mean ALL the melee burst & ranged sustained specs)

3) no, i don't expect all those disciplines to do the EXACT same numbers, and a difference of 100-200 is perfectly okay.... but 400-500 is way overkill. :D:D

I did five parses. They were approximately 8950, 9170, 9150, 9100, and 9040. I did terminate two other parses early because of lag spikes so I didn't include them. I'm also missing about 2/3 of my mastery datacrons, so I assume I'm losing about 25-30 dps from that. I did get okay crits: 41-42 percent on all but the 8950 parse, and a high 44 percent crit but very poorly played 9100 parse. The average parse would probably be closer to 9000 than 9100. A competent min-maxed player with datacrons should be averaging at least 9k on a dummy once they nail down the use of rapid shots (e.g. rapid shots before blazing bolts if it procs supercharge and RS/HSM are still on cd).

 

The point I was making is that, because of the surge nerf, a lot of the variance was removed from arsenal's performance on a dummy. Both sorc specs seem to have more variance.

You should upload your parses than, as that will give you 5 of the top ten Arsenal parses right now on parsely.

3) no, i don't expect all those disciplines to do the EXACT same numbers, and a difference of 100-200 is perfectly okay.... but 400-500 is way overkill. :D:D

That's a lot more reasonable than some of your fellow's views. =]

 

So Bioware. We pay money to see changes. We look for changest in 5.4. Give us, sorc madness, a slight buff since the class underperforms and nerf burst mDPS since they overperfrom by 1k and some by 1.5k damage http://parsely.io/parser/stats

Melee pay money too. Melee can unsub too. Melee can do everything you are threatening to do if you don't get you way.

You want two buffs before others have gotten any, that's the unreasonable part. Not that you may need another one, but that you think it's approriate to not only have your sister spec seen too first, but that you also want it nerfed when it already under performs, and you want a second buff on top of that.

If you think that because you are not happy with the speed of changes, that justifies calling for nerfs across the board, and that people will take kindly to you arbitrarily seeking the nerfing of 8-10 specs out of hand and support your calls for a second buff, I think you will find you are not going to get the continued support by other that you had had before to starting pointing fingers at everyone who does more damage than you happen to.

It wouldn't have seemed so outlandish had you not started with the calls to nerf Lightning in additon to asking for a second buff immediately.

BW would be stupid to buff you again, if they knew that with some of the other class changes they were going to make that would leave Madness exactly where it should be when compared to other classes that have been adjusted subsequently to the madness buff that are on the way in 5.4.

Lighting took the same defensive nerf you did, the only difference is, you got buffed, and they didn't and your DPS is better than it had been, and there's isn't.

Make all the threats you like, all you have done is rallied Melee together, who have in response to your nerf calls started threads of their own letting BW know that they will be unsubbing and leaving the game as well should be the be nerfed in a manner they do not find warranted. It doesn't matter what your opinion on that may be to them, it only matters what their opinions are because they are going to make their decisons of whether to unsub or not based on their opinions, not yours.

The smarter move would have been to rally for yourselfs and not try to rip everyone around you down in an effort to improve your lot. No one would have taken offense to you asking for improvements in the absense of calling for nerfs, not on classes or specs, but the whole other side of the spectrum in it's entirety, melee DPS as a whole.

So now you've forced a stand off. Melee DPS as a whole doesnt want, feel, or need a unilateral nerf, but that's what you've called for, so you've left them no choice but to respond as they have.

You've drawn a line that was unnecessary to have drawn because you had people just like me who dont even play sorcs trying to help you get some needed improvements, and now melee have no choice.

They can give you everything you are asking for and piss off not a class or two or some specs, but all melee DPS, because that's what's what you've called for nerfs, or they can just piss you off.

BW will lose subscribers either way now, with the ultimatums you have given them. Now BW just has to deciede who their more willing to lose. Those who have threaten to leave if all melee dps is not nerfed, or the melee dps who leave if they do to unreasonable levels.

I hope lightning gets some buffs. They deserve it. I hope it's a big buff at that.

You should upload your parses than, as that will give you 5 of the top ten Arsenal parses right now on parsely.

It wouldn't show up on leaderboards since that only shows the top parse for each toon. It would show up if you searched the toon though.

You should upload your parses than, as that will give you 5 of the top ten Arsenal parses right now on parsely.

It only takes your top parse unless you parse on different toons.

I want my feedback on Madness Sorc to be seen by Developers.

http://parsely.io/parser/stats - This stats shows that classes are not balanced. Many classes will have to get nerfed in 5.4 since 2 specs like madness and arsenal are doing way below their DPS Target.

I am not the only one who is saying that Madness is underperforming. Some of Sorcerers players already left the game after 5.0 and some rerolled to mercs. So people that rerolled twice will just leave the game if Bioware fails balancing classes.

Eric you always say how our feedback priceless for you and devs team. do u read all this forums at all we need your feedback and what you think about it

WE NEED A BUFF FOR MADNESS. at least 9.9k DPS

*snip*

BW would be stupid to buff you again, if they knew that with some of the other class changes they were going to make that would leave Madness exactly where it should be when compared to other classes that have been adjusted subsequently to the madness buff that are on the way in 5.4.

*snip*

I hope lightning gets some buffs. They deserve it. I hope it's a big buff at that.

1) u say that madness can't be buffed again because it just got buffed. well in the same light viru just got nerfed... and oh hei, even if they do changes to the disciplines beside viru that'll leave madness even further down the pipe lol. because really. if I.O. & engi were some 100-200 ahead i doubt anyone would object they do have a tighter rotation and energy management, sure they deserve a bit extra love. but not to the point of 350+ that's getting a bit much.

a lot of people are saying that madness doesn't deserve a bigger buff cause it's apparently more mobile. do they even even play the class at all? i mean, hei i might be doing something wrong. and indeed the only thing i need to channel is force lightning... but hei newsflash if i'm forced to stop and move, i'll not get the necessary 4 stacks and will have to channel it again once i'm positioned and such breaks are very unforgiving. As result most of the fight i have to camp in the same spot and not move at all for optimal dps outcome.... oh and be able to dot spread. aaand since not many fights will actually LET me stay still and certainly not all of them have adds... well.... bye bye good dps. by all means, i'm not the best sorc ever, i barely manage 9k. but still... that's a optimal rotation... on a dummy.

anyway, i got off point, they won't be able to fix the difference between madness and virulence without either a) buffing madness or b) nerfing virulence even more. now i don't know about you, and i certainly have no clue what goes on in their brains... but i rather get a buff than see a spec nerfed twice in a month

2) and again about TK / lightning.... it's ranged burst spec that is supposed to do target dps - 5% , same as arsenal marksman. they won't buff lightning when they just nerfed arsenal to match it.

Eric you always say how our feedback priceless for you and devs team. do u read all this forums at all we need your feedback and what you think about it

WE NEED A BUFF FOR MADNESS. at least 9.9k DPS

such silly this one. I.O. does around 9.4k, while the engi average seems to have dropped to 9.2k.. no way in hell would they let madness do more than that.

such silly this one. I.O. does around 9.4k, while the engi average seems to have dropped to 9.2k.. no way in hell would they let madness do more than that.

Madness average now at 8806 dps/ 2.5mil target. 600 dps bellow IO, 400 bellow Eng Sniper. Your thoughts everyone who plays or does not play this spec, and devs combat team of course: is this minor, extreme, rightfully so???

Yes these are averages of submitted parses on parsley, but they are averages of 46 IO parses, 33 Eng-sniper parses, and 42 madness parses, so you have to think it is a fair sample size.

http://parsely.io/parser/stats