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Discussion Topic: Master Mode Operation Gear Drops

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Discussion Topic: Master Mode Operation Gear Drops
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Oeconomicus's Avatar


Oeconomicus
06.14.2017 , 04:23 PM | #21
Hi Eric,

i totally disagree with new idea of dropping unassembled components in master mode operations. I think these operations should be treated like the new Boss Tyth.

Nightmare / Master Bosses should drop 248er Gear Tokens. I know most of these Encounters are old, but that does not mean that they aren't challanging. I know there might be differences, some are more difficult than others, but it is very important that it is worth to Play and work on these Encouters in the Raiding Community and Raiding Guilds like mine. If i just want to get unassembled components i just could play PVP.

So please give us back our Gear Tokens, based on the highest difficult Level in the Game.
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dscount's Avatar


dscount
06.14.2017 , 04:24 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  1. We double the amount of drops awarded in both 8 and 16-player difficulties. This means there is a random aspect of what is dropping, but there will be more chances of receiving Tier 4 gear based on the number of players participating in the Operation.
  2. We leave the amount of gear drops as is, but we add Unassembled Components to each boss. This would mean that players running Master Mode would not only be receiving a chance at Tier 4 gear, but they are also working towards being able to upgrade/purchase the Tier 4 gear they need. We realize Unassembled Components have been attributed to PvP activities, but we could make that adjustment.

So what do you think? Do you like or dislike option 1 or 2 above? Is there something you are concerned about with either idea? What idea was not mentioned that you think could solve this? Let us know!

-eric
First - THANK YOU for engaging in conversations with folks. I hope this goes some what farther than past communications with users via the Forums. (Insert H2F Musical Parody and even better Mafia Clip on Class Reps)

We have TOO much RNG already in this game now. Either option is viable, but it depends dramatically on what each of them really means.

1) Double Drop count is still RNG and not well liked thanks to "RNG is Exciting" of the CXP crates. If you made it more specific drops then maybe it will work. Like first 2 MM Bosses doubled items drop rate and increased % with only Bracers / Belt / Implants / Relics specifically dropping (Move the more desired pieces). Followed with the MID-Raid Bosses having Ear / Helm / Gloves / Pants / Boots and then the last boss or two drops 100% for Chest / Main / Offhand.

I'd rather see OPTION 2 move forward, but would want to know the DETAILS before going 100% on that type of solution. If it's crap drop like 10 UC then NO thank you and just go with Option 1 please.

2) This would need to be significant drop in UC's as you are doing NIM/MM content here. I'd suggest 50 UC's per boss would be the sweet spot. If you kill five bosses you have enough to upgrade ONE item, but still need a few more kills for UC's if it's the Main/Off item. PLUS the tokens already dropping as RNG. I use the comparison someone else did when you get like 5 UC's for sitting off in a corner in PVP/GSF for losing.

I'd rather see Permanent Specific Token Drops on specific boss like we have ALWAYS had. Just because the new Operation is not READY I agree we shouldn't penalize people. I'd also love to see WAY more CXP packs in MM as well since they seem "Lacking" in reality. Worse case - Option 2 with UC's and better if they are 75 or 100 per boss.
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Danery's Avatar


Danery
06.14.2017 , 04:26 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Master Mode Operations:
  • Each non-final boss in an Operation will drop random Tier 4 Prototype and/or Artifact quality item
    • Ex: Killing Nefra in Dread Fortress will drop 2 random items which will be of Prototype or Artifact quality
I feel the need to correct you because that is just not correct unless you are only talking about 16m which I have not done Nefra NiM in 16m. I have with my team killed Nefra NiM (and other bosses as well just using this as an example since it is used as an example here) and it is only ever 1 piece of either 244 or 246 gear. We have never seen it drop two pieces in 8m, and a huge part of the problem is that randomness. With the exception of 1 or 2 pieces which were actually useable by the group, we have gotten gear for Marauders (which we do not have in our current group make up) Juggernaut DPS (which we do not have in our current group make up) Sorc DPS (which we do not have in our current group make up). That randomness makes it almost completely unnecessary because you absolutely cannot rely on Master Mode Operations in order to get gear needed to do the content. If there were a way to guarantee that while it would be random prototype/artifact gear it would actually be completely useable by your current group make up it wouldnt be nearly as terrible as it is right now.
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fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
06.14.2017 , 04:28 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Elssha View Post
along with the NiM Ops (no, never calling them master).
Sure sure don quichotte.
By any chance, do you call it Normal mode, Hard mode and Nighmare mode? I hope so. Else your statement holds little value.
Now I think of it. How were the lowbe flashpoints being called before Bioware changed Normal mode to Story mode? I assume it was normal mode too? Afterwards it changed to story and now its tactical.

Moral of the story. Feel free to call it however you want. If you feel good by calling it Ultimate dungeons than nobody would stand in your way. Just not how its being called :P

Without joking / sarcasm; I get what you mean. Not sure why they changed it to master mode. But hey. They did it so I guess we'll have to live with it. Or fight against the Bioware windmills.
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Toast_and_Tea's Avatar


Toast_and_Tea
06.14.2017 , 04:32 PM | #25
I'm not sure if this will be popular or not, but how about having bosses all master mode that go down drop 2 pieces of gear instead of one to help temp players to players into playing master mode (kind of like a carrot on a stick). And maybe a new weekly that offers the same amount of CXP as the regular ones but have this one offer some assembled components.

Torvai's Avatar


Torvai
06.14.2017 , 04:36 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
We double the amount of drops awarded in both 8 and 16-player difficulties. This means there is a random aspect of what is dropping, but there will be more chances of receiving Tier 4 gear based on the number of players participating in the Operation.
The problem isn't the amount of drops. It's WHAT drops.
1) Blue 244 isn't better as gold 242, which you can reliably get in veteran mode. So there's no justifaction for it to drop in master mode.
2) It's completely random. And when you consistently get 244 items for classes you don't even have in your group and noone in the group plays anyway, it's frustrating.

Quote:
We leave the amount of gear drops as is, but we add Unassembled Components to each boss. This would mean that players running Master Mode would not only be receiving a chance at Tier 4 gear, but they are also working towards being able to upgrade/purchase the Tier 4 gear they need. We realize Unassembled Components have been attributed to PvP activities, but we could make that adjustment.

I have said this from the very announcement of GC: With the goals you had for this what you should have done is adapting the 4.0 PvP gearing to the whole game. It's too late now for that, but maybe consider it for the next expansion. So yeah, having unassembled components drop in operations(or even better, in every content, but adjust accordingly) is a great idea imo.

tldr: Remove 244, make it so that the 246 items are for classes that are in the operation. AND introduce components to the rest of the game. Once you have them balanced out, you can get rid of the crates

auroroavalor's Avatar


auroroavalor
06.14.2017 , 04:45 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
I'd really prefer option 3, where all the Master Mode bosses drop 248 tokens. We won't be able to get BiS from Machine Gos for another 6 months.
I'm not entirely sure why there's any 248 tokens dropping in MM/NiM as they're scaled for something like 236-240 gear and have no place dropping gear two tiers higher than that.

Would it be more convenient to have NiM dropping 248's on every boss? Absolutely, but surely keeping the gear incentive on the newer bosses is important, besides, if we get a new gear tier with NiM GftM will it create an expectation then for the old operations to be dropping 254's? In my mind, there's no situation where having older or easier content being a better source of gear makes sense.
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omaan's Avatar


omaan
06.14.2017 , 04:47 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

[*]We leave the amount of gear drops as is, but we add Unassembled Components to each boss. This would mean that players running Master Mode would not only be receiving a chance at Tier 4 gear, but they are also working towards being able to upgrade/purchase the Tier 4 gear they need. We realize Unassembled Components have been attributed to PvP activities, but we could make that adjustment.[/list]
So what do you think? Do you like or dislike option 1 or 2 above? Is there something you are concerned about with either idea? What idea was not mentioned that you think could solve this? Let us know!

-eric
No you CANT do such adjustments, since you WILL kill pvp in this game. Do you actually read pvp threads mr Musco? Or you just reading through fingers only specific threads. You have already BUFFED pve gearing progression to highest value in the game so that many pvp players actually started to run operations instead of warzones in order to obtain gear which of course had negative impact on overall quantity of players playing pvp, and currently running ops is much better and faster way of obtaining gear. What you propose now? Give pve players an opportunity to receive unessembled components? So to kill pvp at all? You already killed world pvp, and now you going to kill warzones queues. I think swtor doesn't deserve to have pvp community, since you are just buffing pve and thinking only about it.
I think those who are still playing this game for pvp will not stay long. Maybe you start balancing pvp and pve progressions? Since you removed pvp and pve gear you have no choice but to always seek balance between these two absolutely different spheres of the game.

Jerba's Avatar


Jerba
06.14.2017 , 04:50 PM | #29
Adding Unassembled Components to bosses in all difficulty modes (not just Master Mode) is the best solution, and it has been mentioned in my guild frequently as their biggest wish for gearing going forward. Consider an raid group like the one I am in; we are able to clear all VM bosses with ease (ignoring maybe Master&Blaster or Revan), and we are able to kill many MM bosses but not the final bosses.

We were fully 242 equipped when 5.2 launched, so we have no more need for 242 gear. This has a horrible impact on the server community - there is zero reason to help out in a more casual group because you don't need any of the VM loot. But also, we don't care about 244/246 gear because as semi-progress players, we want to have the highest gear; working toward 244/246 gear is wasted time when you can just craft equivalent gear (we have plenty of mats stored up), or easily get 248 gear via PvP. (It doesn't matter to us if final MM bosses drop 248 gear because we can't kill those)

Only getting 244/246 gear and not having top-tier gear wouldn't be a problem if bosses were still staying at their on-release level. Previously, when a boss was too hard for a raid group, they only had to wait a few months and with more gear and a higher level, they were able to beat the boss.
Now that everything is on-level and remains on-level, players are stuck and cannot progress further. The players who are able to kill MM bosses don't need the 248 gear that drops there; the players that are stuck need that gear.

In my opinion, it should be possible to get the highest gear (248) both from the hardest VM bosses, and entry-level MM bosses (not Nefra obviously).
The reason being that PvP and PvE gear are now shared (which in my opinion was one of the worst decisions ever made by this game). If you PvP, you can lose the match, you can AFK, and you'll still get the rewards. This imbalances the whole system because there is no similar progression for operation players - unless you plan on rewarding loot for wiping on a boss. Previously, it was possible to fully gear a character during just their raid nights, and the rest of the week, the could do something else and weren't forced to work on their gearing. Now, players have to PvP/GSF all the time to keep up.

Having Components drop from all operation bosses, with the count depending on difficulty, is a great solution. But these components should drop in all difficulty modes, not just Master Mode, so that players are encouraged to run Veteran Mode. Obviously, the balance must be absolute correct. In other words. Nefra MM should drop the same amount of tokens as Soa VM. Otherwise, we'll have the same situation as currently, where players kill Nefra with all their alts to farm 246 schematics, and there's no reason to do any other MM bosses because they drop the same loot but are harder.
Additionally, you can have full 248 tokens drop from the final bosses. I realize that with such a change, we'll be back at square one (Ultimate Commendations/Warzone Commendations), but that system has worked for years; there's no reason not to go back there.

I beg you to please make the change. The gearing for semi-progress raid groups has been an issue since 5.0 and sadly, it remains a problem that has caused a lot of players, myself included, to lose interest. I hate PvP/GSF with a passion, and I begrudingly reached Valor 100 while getting 248 gear so I don't hinder my raid group. But it got me very close to quitting the game, and to the point where I no longer cared about playing PvP, I just wanted the matches to end as fast as possible to get the components.

GENXPS's Avatar


GENXPS
06.14.2017 , 04:52 PM | #30
Nightmare Operations should drop BIS gear all boss.