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[Feedback] Regarding R-X affixes on mods, enhancements etc.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
[Feedback] Regarding R-X affixes on mods, enhancements etc.

Advieser's Avatar

09.08.2019 , 11:23 AM | #1
Hey y'all,

Since the PTS was brought back online, I've been playing around with and testing the new gear, set-bonuses and amplifiers. While I was quite chagrined by the changes at the start, I'm happy to see that you're taking our feedback seriously and have already begun implementing improvements.
However, today I’d like to offer some feedback on the changes that were made not to gear acquisition but to stat distribution and the gear pieces itselves since I think that those changes are what is unattractive about the new gear system. With gear pieces, I refer to: armorings, barrels, hilts, mods, enhancements as well as earpieces and implants.

What is currently on the PTS:
At the moment, there are 21 variations for every type of gear piece that was in the game before, on live.
An example to explain the situation: On the live server we have three different mods designed for DPS, tanks and healers: There are the non-lettered, which DPS usually use, the A-type which have no use whatsoever and the B-type which tanks prefer since they already have too much defense rating, so they stack power mods with high endurance. This means that only one of the three is used by most specs.
On PTS, we now have 20 additional mods for each of these types, called “Lethal Superior Mod 80R-X” (from R-1 to R-20) or Lethal Superior Mod 80AR-X.
As you can see in this Google Sheet these gear pieces are different in their stat distribution.
The same goes for all other gear pieces I listed above.

What is bad about this:
Let me now explain why and in what way these changes and additions to the gearing system are problematic.
  1. If you want to get BiS gear, you would have to farm a tremendous amount of tech fragments, simply because of the heavily RNG reliant gearing system. Right now you are still getting warding mods as a dps, making this grind even more torturous. With the next PTS refresh we will have spec specific loot, which will dampen the grind a little bit, but it’s not nearly enough. Getting to BiS gear will take an insane amount of time with the current RNG lootboxes that contain mods, barrels, enhancements and so on. If you want to keep the RNG, give us separate lootboxes for mods, enhancements, armorings and so on. This would still mean that we can get 60 different mods and only one would be BiS, but the whole R-X shenanigans is a problem on its own.
  2. The statpool on the mods (for example) is not consistent. The Lethal Mod R-2 and R-3 have a total of 728 mastery and power combined, whilst the R-1, R-5 and R-6 have 727 and the R-20 only has 722. These makes a large number of the non-lettered mods alone straight-out useless. Again, the mods are only one example. The same can be said about enhancements and other gear pieces. If the statpool is the same, you would always use the mods with more mastery since it’s practically impossible to reach the point of diminishing return on that stat anyway. There needs to be something else on mods so that the R-X affixes actually make sense.
  3. The dps armorings (Superior Versatile Armoring 80) make no sense since all of the R-X variations get more endurance and less mastery. A DPS nor a healer would ever want this. All they do is increase the grind.
  4. The stat distribution on the enhancement is a special case. Here I could understand different versions of the good alacrity enhancement (again as a example) that gives you less alacrity but more power. If scaled correctly this could be used to get closer to the required thresholds needed for the lower GCDs. This can be useful for accuracy as well. However, alacrity breakpoints are a meme anyway and should be removed so that we are able to min-max on more than two tertiary stats, one of which having a fixed stat score anyway.
  5. In case you REALLY want to keep this system: The nomenclature is inconsistent.
    I recommend you change so that the lower the R-X number is the better the gear is, so that less experienced players have SOMETHING to indicate what they should prefer.
    The steps between the R-X versions (from R-1 to R-2 to R-3) give you different amount of mastery/power. Unlettered Lethal Mods as an example again: From R-2 to R-3 you lose 2 power and get 3 mastery, from R-19 to R-20 you lose 3 power and get 2 mastery. Additionally, R-5 and R-6 do have the exact same stats.

How this could be improved:
I think the best would be to go back to the current system on live. Additionally, I would remove the A-type mods as well as two of the three types of DPS enhancements, those that give you more endurance and less of the tertiary stat.
Furthermore, I’d consider adding enhancements as I described above for optimized stats for crossing the necessary thresholds.
The changes that are currently on PTS would make the gearing system a ridiculous cross between grinding and bitter disappointment and I desperately hope that the current PTS version is not intended and just an interim stage for testing for the best stat combination to put on the gear pieces.

I hope you all have a nice day!
Adviesar Edvora Edvieser

Member of <Flawless> raid-team @TulakHord

Restoman's Avatar

09.08.2019 , 02:08 PM | #2
This is just idiotic, who in their right mind thought of adding more types of mods and enhancements with different stat pools. We already have plenty of useless ones on live. Confusing for new players and annoying to grind and min-max for everyone. There were already added lots of item ratings, since you did that why not just make 1 enhancement for each stat and 2 types for mods (remove A), decrease drop rate if you need to.
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TerraStomper's Avatar

09.08.2019 , 03:00 PM | #3
I've also observed one R-21 and one R-29. Their stats are really bad. Perhaps they are glitches? Otherwise, I agree as the majority of these affixes, or R-factor qualifiers as I've been calling them, have been between 1 and 20. R-1, R-2, R-3, R-11, R-13, and R-19 have been more common for me than others.

There are some interesting things in the spreadsheet. Mod 80 and Mod 80R-10 are identical. 80R-1, 80R-2, 80R-3, 80R-5, 80R-6 and 80R-9 could be BiS depending on what they are stacked with.

I did notice that R-16 on a Resistive Armoring yields identical +mastery and +endurance stats. And, they can show up on what would otherwise be DPS or healer gear. Higher R's on Resistive Armorings make them more like inferior Versatile Armorings widening stat variation even further. Mirroring, higher R affixes on Versatile Armorings move them closer to being Resistive.

For even more variation, I have two Lethal 80A mods that are comparatively weird. One is labeled Superior Lethal Mod 80A and one is labeled Lethal Superior Mod 80A. Stats are as follows:

Superior Lethal Mod 80A: (+451 mastery, +339 Endurance, +221 Power) This matches up with the spreadsheet.
Lethal Superior Mod 80A: (+451 mastery, +313 Endurance, +225 Power) When compared with the spreadsheet it is 30 points short on Power with no visible R affix. This must be glitched.

Flying-Brian's Avatar

09.08.2019 , 03:14 PM | #4
The amount of RNG on moddable gear is just at ludicrous levels.

RNG to determine the level rating of the mod.

RNG to determine the type of the mod.

RNG to determine the stat version of the mod.

RNG to determine the amplifier on the mod.

And all this for every piece of moddable gear available, doesn't matter if it is a set bonus piece, or a green shell version.

What I think needs to be done is the 20 different versions (R-1 thru R-20) need to be removed from the game.

All set bonus gear needs to have all the mods in the shell be at the same level rating (so all 3 mods are at 306, not 1 at 306, 1 at 296, 1 at 284, which is how it is on the PTS currently). And all mods need to be the correct, non-lettered, stat version.

For the green shell moddable gear. All the mods in the shell be at the same level rating, but the mod can be any of the 3 stat versions that are in the live game (so non-lettered, A, B).

TerraStomper's Avatar

09.08.2019 , 03:44 PM | #5
And lest we forget, in the prior patch RNG also determined the type of gear that dropped. At least class and discipline now steer that variable to what is appropriate for the randomly determined slot.

Prior to this patch, as a mercenary I got really tired fast getting assault cannons and blaster rifles of tankiness, shields of power+accuracy/alacrity, and foci, offhand lightsabers, shotguns, generators, and vibroknives of tankiness much of the time. The problem had been primarily with main hands, off hands and relics. This is still the case with relics. Main hands and off hand drop types are now appropriate for the class, but their stats can still end up useless or inappropriate for the chosen discipline.

Does anyone want a 306 off hand blaster with defense+absorb? Its brand new. Dropped this morning. Never used, nor will it be, except maybe for gambling with another merc alt or gunslinger at the tech fragment vendors.

Pandoras_Jar's Avatar

09.08.2019 , 03:56 PM | #6
Yes, my BF has also been testing this and has discovered the ridiculous amount of variance in all modifications, earpieces, implants. He has his own table he's been working on.

This is going to make BiSing a living hell.

What was wrong with how things were in 5.0? Why are you guys RNGing modifications so much?

Once again, we do not need this much RNG. Having multiple set bonuses and Tacticals is enough of an artificial time gate. The types of players who BiS are also the types of players who will earn and use multiple set bonuses and tacticals. Why make their lives miserable? Having too much variance in gearing will just put players off wanting to even play the game.

Please just stop with all the RNG already. It is getting way too out of hand.
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Restoman's Avatar

09.09.2019 , 08:29 AM | #7
So in simple words in case the developers don't get it - we are getting way too much junk, it would be a lot more enjoyable if the drops actually felt rewarding, even if they're rare and less items drops from stuff (to a degree). It's extremely annoying to get 21 mods just to throw all of them away and use 1. Disintegration of gear gives terrible amounts of tech fragments and it's a real pain to do anyway.
Most importantly I also hope that the drops from the hardest operations will actually be the very best way to gear without any doubts, ideally tokens from which we can get what we actually want or there is plenty of useful stuff dropping, not blue downgrades with A mods and high endurance enhancements that are crap on all fronts. Though most nim raiders will probably find themselves farming hammer station at the beginning of expansion once again.
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scardera's Avatar

09.09.2019 , 09:16 AM | #8
This expansion will be a nightmare for BIS min-maxer. Ridiculous this is not a system for gamer its literaly a chinese mobile game lottery RNG system

Floplag's Avatar

09.09.2019 , 10:04 AM | #9
First off again thank you for the effort. Its early i'm still on coffee injection mode but assuming i'm reading this all right her are my thoughts...

#1 Well, the first sentence says it all really, lower the RNG aspect of it the rest falls in line.
Dont get me started about warding mods in dps gear, please, this is not only silly it literally jump starts the RNG process and should never, ever, happen, period.

#2 My issue here isnt the variation in that there should be some to allow for customization and min maxing etc... BUT, the values on the same level should add up in terms of total point allocations and have only shifted values between the stat pools.
One thing i didnt see here though, were all of these of the same items level and rarity? Im assuming yes on ilvl and if true that has to be an oversight as that should not be the case that the stat pool varies on the same ilvl without some other benefit unless were talking about green/blue/purple variations.

Nothing really on the rest.

For me the thing is this, there isnt time for them to do any kind of full overhaul, were going to get some variation on this at this point i think so were going to have to pick our battles and I think it wise to focus on the largest issue, the RNG fiasco, more than almost anything else.

There has to be some kind of linear easy to understand path that has a reachable goal without requiring luck.

BW, please, If you fix nothing else about this, dont give us RNG to get another RNG to get another tiered RNG system, if you do, you will lose players, its really that simple. At this point PvPers hate it as it will not be an even footing with some gearing faster than others creating mismatches and PvEers hate it as it will be an endless nightmare to min/max. Basically no one likes this at this point. Please, listen.

Cant you just see genchat now... LFG PvP premade must have right mods... lol
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vicadin's Avatar

09.09.2019 , 12:36 PM | #10

I was attempting to put the same exact spreadsheet together. Since you have already shared yours my suggestions is to add a column for “Bonus Damage”. This will give you the best indicator of which armorings, hilts, barrels, mods, and enhancements will be the most sought after. In case you forgot, the formula for bonus damage = mastery * .2 + power * .22

- vicadin