Great info Bant!

However, the #1 Parsing Spec is Infiltration Shadow at 9840 DPS and I estimate upwards of 10K if not 11K in full 242 gear.

 

We've discussed before that your methodology can't properly account for Infiltration's rotation, granted. But I wanted to mention this anyways.

 

~ Eudoxia

You are taking the number one Parse after less than a week. Some people grind faster than others, and this person might have just gotten really lucky with gear. That being said, it is my understanding that there are still bugs that are causing class stances to apply twice, which in Deception/Infiltration will yield much more discharges and therefore more damage. On top of this, if you bother to look at the class rankings, Deception/Infiltration has a spread of +/- 525 dps so a parse with lucky crits and bugged stance application could certainly reach high damage. The sample size is too small right now to validate your claims.

You are taking the number one Parse after less than a week. Some people grind faster than others, and this person might have just gotten really lucky with gear. That being said, it is my understanding that there are still bugs that are causing class stances to apply twice, which in Deception/Infiltration will yield much more discharges and therefore more damage. On top of this, if you bother to look at the class rankings, Deception/Infiltration has a spread of +/- 525 dps so a parse with lucky crits and bugged stance application could certainly reach high damage. The sample size is too small right now to validate your claims.

True, and I was just about to mention this. I'm looking at this bug now, in fact, and trying to confirm how much DPS it does. I'm getting 8100 in full 224, and I know people have been getting way higher (I also know my rotation is right cause I tested all the new possibilities with 5.0). So it seems that Infil is not as high as it currently is due to the bug.

EDIT: I can now safely confirm, it is the stance doubling. With a doubled stance Infiltration Shadow does 9000-9900 DPS on 1.5 mil dummy and properly does 8131 DPS on 1.5 mil dummy, both in 224 gear. So it is overparsing purely because of the doubled stance bug.

~ Eudoxia

Great info Bant!

However, the #1 Parsing Spec is Infiltration Shadow at 9840 DPS and I estimate upwards of 10K if not 11K in full 242 gear.

 

We've discussed before that your methodology can't properly account for Infiltration's rotation, granted. But I wanted to mention this anyways.

 

~ Eudoxia

The problem here is that Breaching Shadows proc twice as much. It happens more than not that Psychokinetic Blast builds 2 stacks of Breaching Shadows instead of one and the ICD is not respected resulting in Force Breach being up every 2-3 GCD. No nerf is need, just a small fix. They forgot to turn off the active Shadow Technique when they added the passive.

True, and I was just about to mention this. I'm looking at this bug now, in fact, and trying to confirm how much DPS it does. I'm getting 8100 in full 224, and I know people have been getting way higher (I also know my rotation is perfect). So it seems that Infil is not as high as it currently is due to the bug.

 

EDIT: I can now safely confirm, it is the stance doubling. With a doubled stance Infiltration Shadow does 9077 DPS on 1.5 mil dummy and properly does 8131 DPS on 1.5 mil dummy, both in 224 gear. So it is overparsing purely because of the doubled stance bug.

 

~ Eudoxia

When we were talking in the guildchat earlier I got intrigued.

You told me you were releasing 20 Force Breaches per parse in comparison to my usual 35 - 37.

I went to parsely since you helped by already linking both the parses and put them to a comparison

http://parsely.io/parser/compare/218481/0/217853/0/0

If you click the "Damage Done" tab:

And apparently you are also using the same amount of Force Breaches as every other parse I have been seeing, mine or of other Infil/Deception players. You can even see you did more damage with yours then I did with mine. The big disparity comes from Spinning Strike but this is probably because your parse is cut when mine ends in the timeline, forbidding you to reach execute phase.

Also, Shadows are cursed with crit disparity in terms of parsing. I got that 9.1k but if I parse 5 or 6 times in a row, I am probably going to end with an average of 8900. I am not in Full 224s anymore, I got myself already a MH/OH 230, not sure if it's enough to make this big of a difference.

There is also APM. I reached almost 50 with 130ms of latency since I am brazilian while you are sitting in 47.1. Are you clicking? The nature of our spec favors the usage of keybinds when we starting unleashing the combo of Breach -> Stride - Breach. Or when we Vanish and pop Force Potency followed by Breach.

I am not sure if we are really facing a double stance bug or not, maybe it's too soon to call and we need to wait for the gear of the whole community to be more equal.

Anyone have any tips on reconciling PvP and PvE gear? Is it best to keep two sets of gear still or is there6 an efficient way of switching between the two. Having to rip augments constantly is a pain.

I'd say: put your Accuracy on the left side so you only need multiple ears and implants. But it probably depends on what you get out of your command crates. If you get a setbonus gear piece twice put accuracy in one and crit or alacrity in the other.

Hey Bant, I am getting one question a lot from people I'm referencing your excellent work to: Is there a version with mastery stim, because I switch between PvE and PvP a lot and can't afford to restim everytime I do this?

I had switched to accuracy stim already, but now I'm thinking along that line as well. Do you think you can help and provied numbers for mastery stims?

When we were talking in the guildchat earlier I got intrigued.

 

You told me you were releasing 20 Force Breaches per parse in comparison to my usual 35 - 37.

I went to parsely since you helped by already linking both the parses and put them to a comparison

http://parsely.io/parser/compare/218481/0/217853/0/0

 

If you click the "Damage Done" tab:

And apparently you are also using the same amount of Force Breaches as every other parse I have been seeing, mine or of other Infil/Deception players. You can even see you did more damage with yours then I did with mine. The big disparity comes from Spinning Strike but this is probably because your parse is cut when mine ends in the timeline, forbidding you to reach execute phase.

 

Also, Shadows are cursed with crit disparity in terms of parsing. I got that 9.1k but if I parse 5 or 6 times in a row, I am probably going to end with an average of 8900. I am not in Full 224s anymore, I got myself already a MH/OH 230, not sure if it's enough to make this big of a difference.

 

There is also APM. I reached almost 50 with 130ms of latency since I am brazilian while you are sitting in 47.1. Are you clicking? The nature of our spec favors the usage of keybinds when we starting unleashing the combo of Breach -> Stride - Breach. Or when we Vanish and pop Force Potency followed by Breach.

 

I am not sure if we are really facing a double stance bug or not, maybe it's too soon to call and we need to wait for the gear of the whole community to be more equal.

In that particular parse I was favoring maintaining uptime on Clairvoyance over using spinning strike, and when I did the opposite I got a parse of 8126 (I can gladly get you the logs of all the parses I ran this morning).

I'm not exactly sure how to explain it... it appears that it is a double class stance because Tanks are getting 120% accuracy, and Guardians a 6% instead of a 3% buff from their stance. However, it appears that it's kind of... hidden, I guess?

~ Eudoxia

Thank you for all your work Bant, you will be missed.

Also love the addition of the Accuracy Options drop downs. Very very helpful!

Hey Bant, I am getting one question a lot from people I'm referencing your excellent work to: Is there a version with mastery stim, because I switch between PvE and PvP a lot and can't afford to restim everytime I do this?

 

I had switched to accuracy stim already, but now I'm thinking along that line as well. Do you think you can help and provied numbers for mastery stims?

Look at the Accuracy Options drop down under every tier of gear.

Thank you very much for the effort you put into this once again, even though you're quitting the game. Much appreciated!!

 

I'm curious about the rotation you used to calculate Combat/Carnage DPS, but couldn't find it in your spreadsheet. Could you point me to the location of that info in the spreadsheet or, if rotations are not included there, post it here?

 

Thanks a lot!

On the Spreadsheet, all rotations are abstracted away because every thing there defined by Usage. Usage is the absolute time (before alacrity is factored in) between activations of that ability. If it something easy that is used on Cooldown (for example Deadly Saber is 12) then it is the cooldown. Otherwise it can be thought of as [Rotation Length] / [# of Uses in rotation].

But that is the abstracted state. I start with a written version of the rotation, of which it can be found in the last post of the front page (#7) It is inside the individual class notes section. (very last spoiler tag)

Fun fact, the entire gearing post is a 60 page document.

For carnage I'm using g_mk's steady state rotation of:

(Berserk) Battering Assault > Dual Saber Throw > (Ferocity) Ravage > Massacre > Devastating Blast > Massacre > Strike > Massacre

Battering Assault > Vicious Throw > (Ferocity) Devastating Blast > Gore > Massacre > Massacre > Massacre > Assault

Hey Bant, I am getting one question a lot from people I'm referencing your excellent work to: Is there a version with mastery stim, because I switch between PvE and PvP a lot and can't afford to restim everytime I do this?

 

I had switched to accuracy stim already, but now I'm thinking along that line as well. Do you think you can help and provied numbers for mastery stims?

Stims are super cheap compared to the endless time sink that the gear is (also you still get multiple stims at a time that last 8 hours). The reason I had two sections previously was that the accuracy stims came out later in the expansion so everyone already was geared already so it made sense to not regear for minuscule gains.

This time I also added an Accuracy Section to each ilvl that shows all of the possible ways to reach +9% Accuracy using both Mastery Stims and Accuracy stims. That can be used to gear however suits you best.

I guess the bottom line is: I don't wanna.

So I say: grump, grump, grump.

True, and I was just about to mention this. I'm looking at this bug now, in fact, and trying to confirm how much DPS it does. I'm getting 8100 in full 224, and I know people have been getting way higher (I also know my rotation is perfect). So it seems that Infil is not as high as it currently is due to the bug.

 

EDIT: I can now safely confirm, it is the stance doubling. With a doubled stance Infiltration Shadow does 9077 DPS on 1.5 mil dummy and properly does 8131 DPS on 1.5 mil dummy, both in 224 gear. So it is overparsing purely because of the doubled stance bug.

 

~ Eudoxia

The problem here is that Breaching Shadows proc twice as much. It happens more than not that Psychokinetic Blast builds 2 stacks of Breaching Shadows instead of one and the ICD is not respected resulting in Force Breach being up every 2-3 GCD. No nerf is need, just a small fix. They forgot to turn off the active Shadow Technique when they added the passive.

I tryed to avoid counting in the Major Bugs in the DPS numbers (I did count in some of the minor bugs because they will likely never be fixed). With no ICD on Shadow Technique and double Procs of of Psychokinetic Blast, the ridiculous numbers of Force Breach qualifies as a major bug. So instead I took everything at face value and assumed that there was nothing to see here, move along.

Another note is that the +- is the 95% interval for Damage, counting only Relics and Critical Hits, any rotational RNG is not accurately depicted in the +- number for that reason. This means that Infiltration has an even wider range of damage outcomes based on the luck of procs for Shadow Technique.

Sorry for my ignorance folks, but can anyone clarify why the crit numbers don't match up to the OP for given chunks of gear? Specifically I've been looking at gear level 230, everything else matches except crit.

For example, Engineering sniper shows 1447 crit rating via 7 Enh and 2 crystals. 230 Enh has 181 crit, crystals still have 41 crit. 181*7 = 1267 . 2 * 41 = 82. 1267 + 82 = 1349 crit

Can anyone inform me what I'm missing here? It's probably something obvious, thanks!

Sorry for my ignorance folks, but can anyone clarify why the crit numbers don't match up to the OP for given chunks of gear? Specifically I've been looking at gear level 230, everything else matches except crit.

 

For example, Engineering sniper shows 1447 crit rating via 7 Enh and 2 crystals. 230 Enh has 181 crit, crystals still have 41 crit. 181*7 = 1267 . 2 * 41 = 82. 1267 + 82 = 1349 crit

 

Can anyone inform me what I'm missing here? It's probably something obvious, thanks!

60 crit on a relic.

60 crit on a relic.

DAMMIT! Thanks

I tryed to avoid counting in the Major Bugs in the DPS numbers (I did count in some of the minor bugs because they will likely never be fixed). With no ICD on Shadow Technique and double Procs of of Psychokinetic Blast, the ridiculous numbers of Force Breach qualifies as a major bug. So instead I took everything at face value and assumed that there was nothing to see here, move along.

Another note is that the +- is the 95% interval for Damage, counting only Relics and Critical Hits, any rotational RNG is not accurately depicted in the +- number for that reason. This means that Infiltration has an even wider range of damage outcomes based on the luck of procs for Shadow Technique.

And that's good you did that. I was only pointing that out so that people don't think Infi is OP. It's just bugged ^^

Bant leaving.

End of an era.

Thanks for everything, your numbers have always been the place to start.

...

 

I guess the bottom line is: I don't wanna.

 

So I say: grump, grump, grump.

LOL. Thanks for answering my truckload of question in such detail at all, helped me a lot! I can figure out the accuracy with that and knowing where all the rotations are is great! You've provided so much info, important stuff gets overlooked.

Again: Much appreciated, the time you're spending to help player community is incredible. If people were willing to go to such lengths to help others in other areas, the world would be a much better place :-)

Bant leaving.

 

End of an era.

 

Thanks for everything, your numbers have always been the place to start.

it is. but hopefully, someone somewhere will continue his work.

 

Again: Much appreciated, the time you're spending to help player community is incredible. If people were willing to go to such lengths to help others in other areas, the world would be a much better place :-)

^^ this.so much this.

I tryed to avoid counting in the Major Bugs in the DPS numbers (I did count in some of the minor bugs because they will likely never be fixed). With no ICD on Shadow Technique and double Procs of of Psychokinetic Blast, the ridiculous numbers of Force Breach qualifies as a major bug. So instead I took everything at face value and assumed that there was nothing to see here, move along.

Another note is that the +- is the 95% interval for Damage, counting only Relics and Critical Hits, any rotational RNG is not accurately depicted in the +- number for that reason. This means that Infiltration has an even wider range of damage outcomes based on the luck of procs for Shadow Technique.

I have to of course agree, here. Looking at the correct damage outputs versus the bugged ones your assumptions come pretty much in the range of what Infiltration is doing. In full 224 (not 230, but I have higher crit than most 224 builds) it comes out to 8150 or so DPS which is close to your 8050 for your 230 gear ranking.

08 - 9459+-525 - +1.49% --- Assassin-Deception || Shadow-Infiltration

14 - 8973+-312 - -3.73% --- Assassin-Hatred || Shadow-Serenity

For once I think that this is probably the best we're going to ever get for infiltration spec and we just have to hope and pray they don't decide we're too overpowered and need to be nerfed. On the other hand, serenity is pretty weak, weaker than it was in 4.0.3+ and I don't expect to see much usage of serenity in 5.0 because of this. Right now infiltration is probably just on the edge of viable depending on what HM operations are tuned for, which we won't truly be able to tell until this issue with class stances is fixed.

~ Eudoxia