lvl 70 Jugg tank/dps i'm switching from PVE and light PVP to stickly PVP I would like some pointers and any and all help I can get i'm on SF server would like advise on skill tree and abilities which ones are used more which ones are total crap any video guildes ,not the ones of just people playing without explaining the why's I don'y waqnt to be the the one standing arouind guarding a node cuz no-one else goes to them (why is that)

I see the entire group running to just one node,and it's always the last to cap

Try looking at the Stickied thread at the top of this forum.

There is a really good guide on some pvp tactics and how the maps actually work.

Once you know those, the rest is about learning your class.

Nobody can really teach you every little trick or tactic for your class. Learning those comes from experience and trial and error.

If you are playing a Jugg, the easiest spec to learn the basics and have fun will be Rage.

If you want to know the utilities to use or the ability priorities/rotations for pvp, go to the forum gen section. At the top of the page is a stickied thread that lists all the guides and things to do with swtor. Search through and find the pvp ones or ones on Juggs.

i would recommend vigi guardian, personally, as rage is A. a completely lesser fury and B. less survivable than vigi.

seriously, if single target burst is your thing and you know rage... you can also play fury, with greater mobility, survivability, damage potential, and an actual disengage.

on the tank front, guardian is excellent, especially in synergy with a healer.

utilities are very very personal - mine vary both from pvp to pve and from dps to tank. the best advice is to play around with it and see what you like.

i would recommend vigi guardian, personally, as rage is A. a completely lesser fury and B. less survivable than vigi.

seriously, if single target burst is your thing and you know rage... you can also play fury, with greater mobility, survivability, damage potential, and an actual disengage.

 

on the tank front, guardian is excellent, especially in synergy with a healer.

 

utilities are very very personal - mine vary both from pvp to pve and from dps to tank. the best advice is to play around with it and see what you like.

Yeah, but if they already have a lvl 70 Jugg who is geared, why would you roll a Mara just so you can play Fury?

Rage is so much more mobile than vengeance and if you are trying to get into pvp again, it will be easier.

I’m not saying vengeance isn’t good, just that Rage would be easier to learn the maps and tactics.

Yeah, but if they already have a lvl 70 Jugg who is geared, why would you roll a Mara just so you can play Fury?

 

Rage is so much more mobile than vengeance and if you are trying to get into pvp again, it will be easier.

I’m not saying vengeance isn’t good, just that Rage would be easier to learn the maps and tactics.

Top DPS spec, that's always a crowd pleaser =p

Technically speaking, they are the same spec. [Rage and Fury]. Which is funny because Rage is a burst spec, and Fury is a Quasi-Burst spec [which they took from Carnage who had always been the 'Quasi-Burst' spec prior to 5.0.

Fury is king right now, it's pretty much better than everyone else in terms of DPS and melee mobility due to it's 6 second CC immunity that Gravity Vortex grants it when it uses Force Crush. As that has a 30 second CD, that means it can have 6 seconds of CC immunity every 24 seconds [because the CS starts immediately, the first 6 seconds you have the CC immunity active, when that ends 24 seconds later you can use it again which is some insane amount of CC immunity. Plus they can leap to snipers which is a nice feature.

You don't go for easy so I think maybe that's why you have that preference of Rage.

Fury is also swimming in resources, it seldom has to worry about that which is a great feature. I don't know Rage as good as you so I might be overlooking something, but pound for pound, Fury is insanely strong [and a little bit sickening if you ask me =p] Thanks for stealing my Bloody Slashes and my spec type you sons of *****es!!!

How they justify the same spec being two different spec types, I have no idea [burst for Juggs/Quasi-Burst for mara].

Fury is Rank 1 and Rage is Rank 9 in the DPS order. People like that sort of thing.

Fury has a very easy play style [it's like the Arsenal of Maras]. I really can't speak to Rage on that front though, you and Kendra would know better than me on that.

Top DPS spec, that's always a crowd pleaser =p

 

Technically speaking, they are the same spec. [Rage and Fury]. Which is funny because Rage is a burst spec, and Fury is a Quasi-Burst spec [which they took from Carnage who had always been the 'Quasi-Burst' spec prior to 5.0.

 

Fury is king right now, it's pretty much better than everyone else in terms of DPS and melee mobility due to it's 6 second CC immunity that Gravity Vortex grants it when it uses Force Crush. As that has a 30 second CD, that means it can have 6 seconds of CC immunity every 24 seconds [because the CS starts immediately, the first 6 seconds you have the CC immunity active, when that ends 24 seconds later you can use it again which is some insane amount of CC immunity. Plus they can leap to snipers which is a nice feature.

 

You don't go for easy so I think maybe that's why you have that preference of Rage.

 

Fury is also swimming in resources, it seldom has to worry about that which is a great feature. I don't know Rage as good as you so I might be overlooking something, but pound for pound, Fury is insanely strong [and a little bit sickening if you ask me =p] Thanks for stealing my Bloody Slashes and my spec type you sons of *****es!!!

 

How they justify the same spec being two different spec types, I have no idea [burst for Juggs/Quasi-Burst for mara].

 

Fury is Rank 1 and Rage is Rank 9 in the DPS order. People like that sort of thing.

 

Fury has a very easy play style [it's like the Arsenal of Maras]. I really can't speak to Rage on that front though, you and Kendra would know better than me on that.

Still, if they don’t want to grind another Alt, they only have a choice of the 3 Jugg specs.

I don’t mind vengeance, but with all the ranged in this meta and snipers, it makes sense having the mobility and able to leap onto snipers.

Plus who wants to do things the easy way. If I wanted easy I wouldn’t play a Lightning Sorc, a deception Sin or a Rage Jugg. I’d play a Arsenal Merc, MM snipers, a skanktank and Fury Mara.

Still, if they don’t want to grind another Alt, they only have a choice of the 3 Jugg specs.

I don’t mind vengeance, but with all the ranged in this meta and snipers, it makes sense having the mobility and able to leap onto snipers.

Plus who wants to do things the easy way. If I wanted easy I wouldn’t play a Lightning Sorc, a deception Sin or a Rage Jugg. I’d play a Arsenal Merc, MM snipers, a skanktank and Fury Mara.

If you dont want to do the insanely easy level grind, just go vigi.

Rage is a lesser fury in almost every category. Lower mobility, less survivability (especially assuming at least one healer), practically identical burst, lower overall damage potential, and no true anti-focus tool hinder rage.

Vigi is far less hindered by these things. Sure rage has the second leap. For vigi, find a group of people and smash monkey away, dot spreading simply by doing the same thing you would be on a single target. And unlike say, a madness sorc, you do have enough damage to actually pressure a single target.

Other specs seem to suffer less from such shared tree identity. Virulence sniper suffers less from comparison to lethality than from sheer uselessness in comparison to marksman or engineering. Same for IO mercs with arsenal (and PT dps are all squishy as crap so why pass up the high burst). Balance sages/serenity shadows are both functional dot spreaders, but because of stealth vs ranged they function quite differently. Its just focus/concentration that are both melee and focus suffers more considering how good concentration is at the moment.

I might add in light of this discussion - in terms of rotation at least, concentration is not "easier" than focus. People say easier, because the additional mobility offered by the sentinel class, combined with concentrations greater immunities and actual disengage, allow it to perform the same function as focus - just better. Focus has one advantage in FD - which sure, rescaled is nice... but vigi can use it better and focus hardly suffers survivability wise.

Meanwhile vigi has an (albeit small) niche, with greater survivability, higher damage potential than focus, and enough burst to pressure a single target, while not being overly hindered by the lack of the second leap because you want to be in the center of the group anyway. Vigi's Achilles heel is thr lack of anti-focus. Eventually someone will notice you sitting there smash monkeying the other team. And then you die 15 times in a hypergate.

That said, i have never played vigi and thought "i could be playing watchman." With focus, the "you could be playing concentration" factor is massive.

Still, if they don’t want to grind another Alt, they only have a choice of the 3 Jugg specs.

I don’t mind vengeance, but with all the ranged in this meta and snipers, it makes sense having the mobility and able to leap onto snipers.

Plus who wants to do things the easy way. If I wanted easy I wouldn’t play a Lightning Sorc, a deception Sin or a Rage Jugg. I’d play a Arsenal Merc, MM snipers, a skanktank and Fury Mara.

I'm totally with you on that. That's why I said that you don't go for easy, that's why you go with Rage Jugg over Fury Mara.

The added mobility does help with trying to off set some of the ranged superiority.

I'm familair with Fury, although I really don't like the game play, not that it's not effective, it is very much so now, it just moves like a slug. Carnage will do that to ya! - I defer to you and Kendra on the Juggies.

There's something about Rage Juggs I like. If I wasn't so type cast at this point, I'd probably dig it to play.

If you dont want to do the insanely easy level grind, just go vigi.

 

Rage is a lesser fury in almost every category. Lower mobility, less survivability (especially assuming at least one healer), practically identical burst, lower overall damage potential, and no true anti-focus tool hinder rage.

 

Vigi is far less hindered by these things. Sure rage has the second leap. For vigi, find a group of people and smash monkey away, dot spreading simply by doing the same thing you would be on a single target. And unlike say, a madness sorc, you do have enough damage to actually pressure a single target.

Doesn't Rage have the strongest attacks, as in one hits? Pretty sure its the only spec in the game that can go and burst up 50k damage hits.

I mean the uptime surely is inferior than Fury since its harder to manage the resources but it can be more bursty.

And, well, PvP wise, I don't think Rage is that bad. It can beat Veng rather easily since it can avoid the ED proc since the spec only has 1 dot in a rather long CD.

Doesn't Rage have the strongest attacks, as in one hits? Pretty sure its the only spec in the game that can go and burst up 50k damage hits.

I mean the uptime surely is inferior than Fury since its harder to manage the resources but it can be more bursty.

 

And, well, PvP wise, I don't think Rage is that bad. It can beat Veng rather easily since it can avoid the ED proc since the spec only has 1 dot in a rather long CD.

What attack or passive does focus have that concentration does not, that makes it capable of a 50k hit? I see this argument all the time, with no substantiation. And even if focus is capable of the occasional bigger hit, it still suffers all the other problems that make concentration a better spec - no anti-focus tool and lower mobility. Combat sents are listed as the burst sentinel spec, and yet, most sents run concentration because overall its better.

And 1v1 sure, most any burst spec is going to be better than a dot spec. 1v1 is also relatively irrelevant to most pvp scenarios. Name one 1v1 scenario where you'd rather have a dot spec?

Rage's real issue is not that its so bad - its that fury is so good.

What attack or passive does focus have that concentration does not, that makes it capable of a 50k hit? I see this argument all the time, with no substantiation. And even if focus is capable of the occasional bigger hit, it still suffers all the other problems that make concentration a better spec - no anti-focus tool and lower mobility. Combat sents are listed as the burst sentinel spec, and yet, most sents run concentration because overall its better.

 

And 1v1 sure, most any burst spec is going to be better than a dot spec. 1v1 is also relatively irrelevant to most pvp scenarios. Name one 1v1 scenario where you'd rather have a dot spec?

 

Rage's real issue is not that its so bad - its that fury is so good.

It's because Concentraition/Fury is better than Combat/Carnage in every single way. Plus the DPS difference is huge [all things being equal] - In the DPS pecking order Fury is Rank 1, Rage comes in at Rank 9, Carnage is rank 14.

Because, ya know, that makes sense.

Combat/Carnage couldn't hit 50k if it shot a canonball from the players *** at point blank range.

If that was possible for a player to land a 50k hit in 4.x it was almost certainly to do with some poor PVEer schmuck who thought it would be a good idea to go into a Warzone in his PVE gear against people in full Expertise PVP gear and got his a** lite up.

That poor bastard.

It's because Concentraition/Fury is better than Combat/Carnage in every single way. Plus the DPS difference is huge [all things being equal] - In the DPS pecking order Fury is Rank 1, Rage comes in at Rank 9, Carnage is rank 14.

This is exactly what I'm saying about rage vs fury too, and why i mentioned combat in the first place: everything focus can do... concentration can do better. Whether because concentration is so good or focus is so bad is basically irrelevant at this point as they obviously have no intentions of changing either any time soon.

If that was possible for a player to land a 50k hit in 4.x it was almost certainly to do with some poor PVEer schmuck who thought it would be a good idea to go into a Warzone in his PVE gear against people in full Expertise PVP gear and got his a** lite up.

 

That poor bastard.

This is my personal opinion of pretty much every claim of 50k+ i see.

This is exactly what I'm saying about rage vs fury too,

 

This is my personal opinion of pretty much every claim of 50k+ i see.

I too agree that Fury is the better class/spec as far as performance in the right hands.

Rage is the poor second cousin if you wanted to compare them. But they aren’t exactly apples to apples because they are 2 seperate classes.

So when someone asks me about a Jugg spec in particular, I won’t say go roll another class because it’s better.

IMO, if you have to pick “only” a Jugg spec, I would suggest Rage for all the reasons I’ve already posted. I am also a little bit biased because I’m not a fan of dot spreading. I prefer to hit hard and fast on a single target.

I also agree about the 50k+ And I would love someone to show me how to do that hit because then I’d be unstoppable.

Doesn't Rage have the strongest attacks, as in one hits? Pretty sure its the only spec in the game that can go and burst up 50k damage hits.

I mean the uptime surely is inferior than Fury since its harder to manage the resources but it can be more bursty.

 

And, well, PvP wise, I don't think Rage is that bad. It can beat Veng rather easily since it can avoid the ED proc since the spec only has 1 dot in a rather long CD.

Resource management on Rage isn’t harder to manage, I can’t ever remember running out of enough rage.

Uptime is only harder on a Jugg because a Mara is more mobile/faster and is able to to stay on target even if they try to escape.

In a straight up fight of Rage vs Fury in a tight space, I would always chose Rage because they will stay alive longer to kill the Mara because the Mara’s main anti focus is to stealth away. If they can’t do that, then the Jugg should win. Most of my 1v1 encounters against a Fury Mara end with the Mara stealthing out.

Rage certainly dosent have 50k hits. If they did they would be the most OP class in the game. My average hit on a Rage Jugg is around 26-28k. With a crit hit I might hit 32-35k, but that’s not every hit and I can’t make it happen 100% of the time.

In objective pvp a Rage Jugg is actually quite good, but in arena (especially ranked), they are a weak link and will nearly always get targeted first. Taking a Rage Jugg in solo ranked is asking for trouble.

They arent as bad in team ranked if you have a good healer and the rest of your composition is good. But even then, they are still the weakest link and a Mara would be the better option.

I too agree that Fury is the better class/spec as far as performance in the right hands.

Rage is the poor second cousin if you wanted to compare them. But they aren’t exactly apples to apples because they are 2 seperate classes.

I said the one advantage to juggie was ED, which vigi also has, in addition to being less hampered by the mobility issues and having better survivability, higher damage potential, and only losing burst. I might add vigi is literally dot dot dot smash.

So when someone asks me about a Jugg spec in particular, I won’t say go roll another class because it’s better.

IMO, if you have to pick “only” a Jugg spec, I would suggest Rage for all the reasons I’ve already posted. I am also a little bit biased because I’m not a fan of dot spreading. I prefer to hit hard and fast on a single target.

The problem is, as i mentioned when comparing the focus/concentration issue to the other shared specs of the other advanced classes, the two are practically identical in purpose and function, and thus, is a factor that must be considered when choosing. Especially when there is another spec that is not 100% outclassed by a practically identically playing one.

Burst is great, but there is very little fast about rage. Its trying to function at something the class really isnt set up well for. That's why i base my recommendations on as many factors as possible and not just what i like. Objectivity is impossible really, but i think i have given reasons for what i say.

In objective pvp a Rage Jugg is actually quite good, but in arena (especially ranked), they are a weak link and will nearly always get targeted first. Taking a Rage Jugg in solo ranked is asking for trouble.

They arent as bad in team ranked if you have a good healer and the rest of your composition is good. But even then, they are still the weakest link and a Mara would be the better option.

Any time you experience focus from multiple players any dps guardian is going to melt because we have no way of avoiding it. Rage has it even worse than vigi, i admit, but the focus issue is true regardless of spec or type of play; you are just less likely to experience focus in 8v8s. I was running a guildless toon for awhile and suddenly i was topping most wz damage boards because without the guild tag, i wasn't the automatic target.

I said the one advantage to juggie was ED, which vigi also has, in addition to being less hampered by the mobility issues and having better survivability, higher damage potential, and only losing burst. I might add vigi is literally dot dot dot smash.

 

The problem is, as i mentioned when comparing the focus/concentration issue to the other shared specs of the other advanced classes, the two are practically identical in purpose and function, and thus, is a factor that must be considered when choosing. Especially when there is another spec that is not 100% outclassed by a practically identically playing one.

 

Burst is great, but there is very little fast about rage. Its trying to function at something the class really isnt set up well for. That's why i base my recommendations on as many factors as possible and not just what i like. Objectivity is impossible really, but i think i have given reasons for what i say.

 

Any time you experience focus from multiple players any dps guardian is going to melt because we have no way of avoiding it. Rage has it even worse than vigi, i admit, but the focus issue is true regardless of spec or type of play; you are just less likely to experience focus in 8v8s. I was running a guildless toon for awhile and suddenly i was topping most wz damage boards because without the guild tag, i wasn't the automatic target.

I agree with most of what you’re saying. But it also comes down to preferred type of game play. If you like dots, then obviously Veng/Vig is for you, but it is also a little harder to learn for a beginner, even though both become about the same to master.

I find that in 8v8 I won’t get focused as much even in a guild. It’s more to do with people not understanding classes in regs. Occasionally I will get a Merc trying to face tank me or an Op jumps me, but normally I choose my own fights. That way I can make sure I don’t have to put myself in a no win situation. The only time I find I’ll really get focused is if I guard or I attack an off node and backup arrives.

Obviously if I stay with the pack and farm damage I won’t do as much as a Veng/Vig spec. You definitely have the advantage in total dps output in those situations. But I’m also usually near the top of the dps because I can go from one target to the next and take them down fast or in the case of a healer, pressure them enough to shut them down.

If I was going to advise a new Warrior what class/spec to choose, I would suggest a Fury Mara over a Jugg. But play style still needs to be considered. For instance, if you like the quick speed, you would be better on a Mara. If speed is too challenging (like it is for some), then a Jugg that can absorb more damage is a better fit.

I’ve played all warrior specs except skank (if I tank, I tank). Each is mostly fun and has its strengths and weaknesses. I started out on Rage in 1.2 and I have the most fun on it even when it’s been nerfed to the ground. The same as I’ve always preferrred Lightning Sorcs (R.I.P). I try not to play certain classes when they are OP because where’s the fun in that. The only reason I played my Fury Mara last year before Mercs and Sniper (Engineering) got nerfed was to counter them. As soon as they were nerfed, I went back to my Rage Jugg, Lightning Sorc and Deception Sin (my fav mains).

I agree with most of what you’re saying. But it also comes down to preferred type of game play. If you like dots, then obviously Veng/Vig is for you, but it is also a little harder to learn for a beginner, even though both become about the same to master.

 

I find that in 8v8 I won’t get focused as much even in a guild. It’s more to do with people not understanding classes in regs. Occasionally I will get a Merc trying to face tank me or an Op jumps me, but normally I choose my own fights. That way I can make sure I don’t have to put myself in a no win situation. The only time I find I’ll really get focused is if I guard or I attack an off node and backup arrives.

 

Obviously if I stay with the pack and farm damage I won’t do as much as a Veng/Vig spec. You definitely have the advantage in total dps output in those situations. But I’m also usually near the top of the dps because I can go from one target to the next and take them down fast or in the case of a healer, pressure them enough to shut them down.

 

If I was going to advise a new Warrior what class/spec to choose, I would suggest a Fury Mara over a Jugg. But play style still needs to be considered. For instance, if you like the quick speed, you would be better on a Mara. If speed is too challenging (like it is for some), then a Jugg that can absorb more damage is a better fit.

 

I’ve played all warrior specs except skank (if I tank, I tank). Each is mostly fun and has its strengths and weaknesses. I started out on Rage in 1.2 and I have the most fun on it even when it’s been nerfed to the ground. The same as I’ve always preferrred Lightning Sorcs (R.I.P). I try not to play certain classes when they are OP because where’s the fun in that. The only reason I played my Fury Mara last year before Mercs and Sniper (Engineering) got nerfed was to counter them. As soon as they were nerfed, I went back to my Rage Jugg, Lightning Sorc and Deception Sin (my fav mains).

what comes easier must come down to the person. when i was first learning dps specs coming from tank, vigi was the easier one for me to pick up. now i've played all specs (including skank, as prior to shielding crits being a thing, there was simply no point running tank gear - even now, it's pretty marginal).

i've been a guardian tank main in this game since pre-2.0, that never changed. Ever since I learned dps my next most commonly used spec was vigi.

the focus issue is very real wherever the focus is - as mentioned 100s of times on these forums, I went vigi main for about a 6 month period corresponding to the release of 5.0 protesting dps specs getting guard. dying 15 times in a hypergate after the sage healer nerfs cured me of that disease.

The short answer is Veng, Skank Tank or Mara. HP tanks are trash, mit tanks are trash, rage has to be played well and supported, wouldn’t start there.

Also try out the Mara. A lot of similarities, if you like one you’ll prob like the other, maybe more (or maybe not).

Well if you are looking for a jugg guide video, I have you

This is your incredible guide? 2100 alacrity is basically as pointless as the freezing force utility post 5.5. There are 3 good choices for utilites in the legendary tier: reflect, saber throw root, and guardian leap cd reduction. I strongly recommend 2/3 of those in any case, dropping the improved sweeping slash damage, because the only time any spec should be spamming sweeping slash in pvp is for node cap prevention, in which case damage doesn't matter anyway. Seriously the guys recommending using enure as a speed buff make more sense than you.

Data is crapping out and i dont have time to watch the rest right now, will edit this reply later.

Edit 1: this video is 99% listening to this guy read tooltips. Can people really not do that themselves?