I wasn't aware this was such a hot topic argument going on. There are plenty of examples of SW characters DWing throughout the EU and Anakin briefly DWs in the movies as well as in Clone Wars;those things combined with styles like Jar'kai and Niman make DWing "iconic" enough for me.

Anyone who claims it isn't iconic enough for the SWU is obviously basing their definition of iconic solely on the movies.

A lot a ppl say it's not iconic. Some ppl don't care. Thoughts?

People just don't like Marauders lol, it's hard for a Mara out here.

Well I guess you don't see a lot mainstream characters duel weilding unless they have to. There was a thread on the forums a little while ago discussing the implications of duel weilding. It was quite interesting. When you duel weild you are going for a more acrobatic style of fighting but are losing a lot of stopping power and defence in the process. You'd probably notice whenever someone starts duel weilding they gotta move around a lot, all it would take is someone to hammer them with powerful single saber attacks and it's over for them.

But back to the topic at hand lol

It is a legiitmate style of fighting in the Star Wars universe, however you sacrifce a lot to pull it off. Your attacks are stronger and your defence is better with just one.

Yeah I can see defense being stronger with one yet, I read some lot on duel weilding on darthhater.com that sentinels are able to make up for the weaknesses of dual weilding, that they could learn to have the strength in one hand of a lighsaber than they would if they used both hands. I'll post the link

Yeah I think I remember seeing that about the one handed strength. In all honesty I would imagine constantly fighting with two sabers out would get awkward and clumsy at times unless you were particularly adept at it.

I dunno...I know there are some weapon styles that use dual weapons, but how many of them are two full sized blade type weapons? It doesn't seem like it would be very effective.

It is extremely effective. You gain a ton of offensive power by using 2 sabers, but you trade off a loss in defense. Jar'kai and Niman are brutal and effective and many people have fallen trying to go up against masters of these styles.

What I have always wondered about lightsaber combat is why Jedi/Sith don't use a technique that involves igniting and shutting the saber off throughout combat as a tactical advantage. Think about it, we are in a saber lock, I suddenly shut off my saber, spin off, re-ignite and lop your bloomin head off or I go to act like I'm blocking an attack, shut my saber off, dodge away and bring my saber into an open area while re-igniting.

Anyone no of this happening in canon or have sources to show why Jedi/Sith do not do this?

IRL most post-Renaissance schools of fencing favored dual wielding. About half of The Book Of Five Rings is devoted to explaining that if you want to dominate as a ronin duelist two swords was the only way to go. Most of the RL historical debate was between dual swords and lighter armor and heaviest armor possible and great (meaning very large) swords. Heavy armor gave a huge advantage on the battlefield (especially for cavalry), but limited a fighter's mobility too much to make the use of two swords practical. With the large scale introduction of firearms in the 15th century armor lost most of its advantages and dual swords became more of the norm until the military standard changed to pistols and single sabre a a century or so later.

The problem with dual wielding in media is that it looks goofy. It limits the amount of Flynning actors can do, and makes any shots where they're trading quips with clashing swords look really weird. That's also the problem with a game as cinematic as TOR. With dual wielding there is a very fine line between a character looking "kinetic" and moronic. Some of the marauder moves look good, but when they don't, they really, really, don't.

IIRC the in-universe line on why more Jedi don't dual wield is that lightsabre combat has a big psychic-y element to it and except for master fighters it tended to be twice the effort for half the results.

It's not very iconic but it does appear in a few places.

That being said, DW does look very very awesome when done properly.

It is extremely effective. You gain a ton of offensive power by using 2 sabers, but you trade off a loss in defense. Jar'kai and Niman are brutal and effective and many people have fallen trying to go up against masters of these styles.

 

What I have always wondered about lightsaber combat is why Jedi/Sith don't use a technique that involves igniting and shutting the saber off throughout combat as a tactical advantage. Think about it, we are in a saber lock, I suddenly shut off my saber, spin off, re-ignite and lop your bloomin head off or I go to act like I'm blocking an attack, shut my saber off, dodge away and bring my saber into an open area while re-igniting.

 

Anyone no of this happening in canon or have sources to show why Jedi/Sith do not do this?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tr%C3%A0kata

In the return trailer, it's used at about 3:58 and 4:22

i know ppl say duel wielding is so rare, that is just stupid to have so many knights and warriors running around with 2 lightsabers, i have heard it said.

i personally would keep my marauder the way he is.

but i don't think it should be to hard to have a "hide offhand" option, especially for RPers. its not even like they would need to redo the animations, the second hand could still move in exactly the same way just with an invisible lightsaber. turning the lightsaber off this way would get the desired effect for those that only want to have one saber and also keep the stats for the toon to work properly

A lot a ppl say it's not iconic.

There's a lot of idiots in the world too, so I don't give it much thought. This game is as much a [Knights of the] Old Republic game as much as it is a Star Wars franchise game; probably moreso.

Look to that game for this one's icons.

I don't have a huge problem with it simply existing, the Force and the fact that a lightsaber only weighs as much as the hilt allows me to overlook most of the real-world issues with trying to swing around two bastard swords and relish in the coolness of it. Hell, I like dual blasters and that's a much worse offender.

That said, it sort of bugs me that it's so common. I realize the limitations of ability animations and all, but I really wish Jedi/Sith classes and equipment were built and balanced such that single-saber style was always an equally effective choice as anything else, freely available without sacrificing stats or effectiveness. You'd still see a lot of saber staffs and dual-wielders, but some people would chose to go "iconic" and they'd be able to do so without giving up the class or playstyle they like best.

There's a lot of idiots in the world too, so I don't give it much thought. This game is as much a [Knights of the] Old Republic game as much as it is a Star Wars franchise game; probably moreso.

 

Look to that game for this one's icons.

I never knew anybody who used two sabres with the duel wield ability in kotor, except in their first "ARGH! How did I even get to 11 as a smuggler!?!?" play through. The statistical advantages were just too big for the double bladed saberstaffs. Plus, it was fairly well know that to get the "ultimate" weapon of that game (a saberstaff) all you had to do was do Manaan third.

I never knew anybody who used two sabres with the duel wield ability in kotor, except in their first "ARGH! How did I even get to 11 as a smuggler!?!?" play through. The statistical advantages were just too big for the double bladed saberstaffs. Plus, it was fairly well know that to get the "ultimate" weapon of that game (a saberstaff) all you had to do was do Manaan third.

Anecdotal evidence is terrible to use an example. My first play through of KOTOR and many following ones I used dual sabers,as did many of my friends. I don't know anyone that used a double bladed saber in KOTOR no matter what double bladed godmode saberstaffs where available.

See?

Anecdotal evidence is terrible to use an example. My first play through of KOTOR and many following ones I used dual sabers,as did many of my friends. I don't know anyone that used a double bladed saber in KOTOR no matter what double bladed godmode saberstaffs where available.

 

See?

^^ This. I always used 2 sabers. The difference mainly being 4 power crystals, and their subsequent attribute buffs, vs 2. Unless of course you used the workbench/item dup exploit, and made super sabers, then it was really just a question of which animation you liked.

Dual, (that's right dual, as in two, not duel, as in a fight between two people) wielding, also referred to as a fighting Florentine because that's where the fencing style originated in Europe, is not unheard of. It is hard as hell to pull off though. I've studied martial arts and fencing and I've only known two truly good Florentine fighters. Their defense was in the strength of their offense, because it was easy for them to keep you off balance with two weapons coming at you at once. The trade off is that foot work and maneuverability are easily compromised by having to focus on the two weapons. But for the few people who can do it, the results are pretty impressive.

As for it being iconic, why even be concerned? It can be done in the real world, with real weapons. In addition to the Florentine style, certain schools of kung fu as well as Escrima teach dual wielding as well. If an athletically gifted but otherwise normal human being can do it, why wouldn't someone who can stop a locomotive and leap tall buildings in a single bound (i.e. a jedi or sith) be able to do it? Being bothered by whether or not dual wielding is iconic is stupid.

It is extremely effective. You gain a ton of offensive power by using 2 sabers, but you trade off a loss in defense. Jar'kai and Niman are brutal and effective and many people have fallen trying to go up against masters of these styles.

 

What I have always wondered about lightsaber combat is why Jedi/Sith don't use a technique that involves igniting and shutting the saber off throughout combat as a tactical advantage. Think about it, we are in a saber lock, I suddenly shut off my saber, spin off, re-ignite and lop your bloomin head off or I go to act like I'm blocking an attack, shut my saber off, dodge away and bring my saber into an open area while re-igniting.

 

Anyone no of this happening in canon or have sources to show why Jedi/Sith do not do this?

It is not used much mainly because the style of combat is usually chosen for the student by the Master because the Instructor has a very good idea of the individuals strengths and weaknessess. An example is in the first Darth Bane book. Kas'im assigning the Djem So Variant of Form V lightsaber combat mainly because it makes use of Banes Strength. By the way Niman which is Form VI uses ALL Lightsaber forms in moderation (Also called the Diplomats Form) so it doesnt give any advantage to dual-wielders at all. Also what Variant is Jar'Kai? Its not mentioned in any lore I have found or in the book The Essential Guide to the Force: Jedi vs Sith. Also to the best of my knowlege this tactic of shuting off and reigniting the lightsaber during combat has been used. Corran Horn used it at least once in the Book "I Jedi" but could be wrong. I know for shure that Jacen Solo used it when he fought Kyle Katarn on Coruscant when Katarn tried to rescue Allana the first time. Anakin Solo also used this trick against the Vong several times. Also Dual-Wielding sacrifices Strength for speed and quickness. 2 weapons might not let you use strength however you can strike faster and multiple times which make up for the strength weakness that comes with Dual-Wielding. I believe that there were 2 Jedi during Anakin Skywalkers time that used 2 weapons at once all the time Cin Drallig's last Apprentice and Jedi Master turned Sith Lord A'Sharad Hett (Darth Krayt). Also most Dual-Wielders known are practitioner's of Juyo/Vapaad (Form VII) at least that I know of.

It is not used much mainly because the style of combat is usually chosen for the student by the Master because the Instructor has a very good idea of the individuals strengths and weaknessess. An example is in the first Darth Bane book. Kas'im assigning the Djem So Variant of Form V lightsaber combat mainly because it makes use of Banes Strength. By the way Niman which is Form VI uses ALL Lightsaber forms in moderation (Also called the Diplomats Form) so it doesnt give any advantage to dual-wielders at all. Also what Variant is Jar'Kai? Its not mentioned in any lore I have found or in the book The Essential Guide to the Force: Jedi vs Sith. Also to the best of my knowlege this tactic of shuting off and reigniting the lightsaber during combat has been used. Corran Horn used it at least once in the Book "I Jedi" but could be wrong. I know for shure that Jacen Solo used it when he fought Kyle Katarn on Coruscant when Katarn tried to rescue Allana the first time. Anakin Solo also used this trick against the Vong several times. Also Dual-Wielding sacrifices Strength for speed and quickness. 2 weapons might not let you use strength however you can strike faster and multiple times which make up for the strength weakness that comes with Dual-Wielding. I believe that there were 2 Jedi during Anakin Skywalkers time that used 2 weapons at once all the time Cin Drallig's last Apprentice and Jedi Master turned Sith Lord A'Sharad Hett (Darth Krayt). Also most Dual-Wielders known are practitioner's of Juyo/Vapaad (Form VII) at least that I know of.

I hate to be the grammar police, but paragraphs make long posts easier to read.

Niman was derived from a fighting form that focused on using dual blades,specifically a typical lightsaber and a shorter, shoto saber. Many practitioners use it for single saber combat, but Exar Kun used it for his double bladed saber and others used it with 2 blades.

Jar'kai traces it's origins back to ancient dual blade fighting and then to Niman with the advent of the lightsaber, but it exclusively focuses on dual blade techniques. It is closely linked to Niman and considered a variant of it. "Jar'Kai permits a Jedi to fight with two lightsabers, one in each hand. One of the blades in the wielder's hands is used for attacking while the other one is used for defending, such as parrying, or for more offensive purposes."

I found some examples of the igniting and shutting off of the sabers in combat, thank you for making me aware of the other ones. The were pretty interesting.

It's true that most DWers use Juyo, but some use Niman and others even use Ataru,albeit not regularly and sometimes only when using Jar'kai(like Anakin vs Dooku).

It is extremely effective. You gain a ton of offensive power by using 2 sabers, but you trade off a loss in defense. Jar'kai and Niman are brutal and effective and many people have fallen trying to go up against masters of these styles.

 

What I have always wondered about lightsaber combat is why Jedi/Sith don't use a technique that involves igniting and shutting the saber off throughout combat as a tactical advantage. Think about it, we are in a saber lock, I suddenly shut off my saber, spin off, re-ignite and lop your bloomin head off or I go to act like I'm blocking an attack, shut my saber off, dodge away and bring my saber into an open area while re-igniting.

 

Anyone no of this happening in canon or have sources to show why Jedi/Sith do not do this?

The jedi master in the "Return" trailer did this, altough with a double bladed saber

Duel wielding has its place. Its a high risk style that is generally not recommended by serious practitioners of melee combat. The major problem with Duel Wielding is that its done wrong...Spinning is bad, and in SWTOR, most marauders do nothing but spin. Also light armor? Seriously? You don't move your arms any faster in heavy armor then in medium armor, and with two blades you'd be focusing more on pure attack and aggression, meaning you couldn't risk greater vulnerability in lighter armor.

I find duel wielding personally distasteful because of the following reasons:

1. Marauder armor sucks, it looks terrible...seriously, skirts for a melee specialist thats meant to be maneuverable? No...

2. Lightsaber combat is based on Samurai Sword forms, which is almost always with a single blade. The second blade is used as a backup if the first blade is broken/lost, not to be used in the second hand.

3. Two Bladed combat looks like a spiny silly thing.

I play a marauder btw. So no going "Oh you just hate marauders". I kinda regret the choice, but meh.

For me it comes down to personal taste. I love the iconicness of a single blue, green, or red blade (Yes, thanks to the movies). I love the reveal of Darth Maul's double bladed saber. I love the brief bit where Anakin fights Dooku with two blades--it was unexpected and flashy, in a good way, I thought.

That said, I'm not a HUGE fan of how the double-bladed saber looks, aside from the reveal. I am more impressed by the twirliness of Anakin's moves against Dooku and by the stolid determinism presented in the single blade. The classic blades just get me every time!

I do like the gunslinger with his two pistols. I wish the single-pistol options would have more of a Police look to it, which is to say, one pistol, two hands.

Duel wielding has its place. Its a high risk style that is generally not recommended by serious practitioners of melee combat. The major problem with Duel Wielding is that its done wrong...Spinning is bad, and in SWTOR, most marauders do nothing but spin. Also light armor? Seriously? You don't move your arms any faster in heavy armor then in medium armor, and with two blades you'd be focusing more on pure attack and aggression, meaning you couldn't risk greater vulnerability in lighter armor.

 

I find duel wielding personally distasteful because of the following reasons:

 

1. Marauder armor sucks, it looks terrible...seriously, skirts for a melee specialist thats meant to be maneuverable? No...

2. Lightsaber combat is based on Samurai Sword forms, which is almost always with a single blade. The second blade is used as a backup if the first blade is broken/lost, not to be used in the second hand.

3. Two Bladed combat looks like a spiny silly thing.

 

I play a marauder btw. So no going "Oh you just hate marauders". I kinda regret the choice, but meh.

1. I agree however the armor has no affect on whether DWing is "iconic". Curiously, i remember Maras having medium armor that looked like Juggs have while leveling and then in one of the last beta builds the looks were switched for some crazy reason.

2. Lightsaber forms are influenced by Samurai forms, as well as numerous other fighting styles. They are a gentle blending of many forms that were commonly used on earth, some involved the use of two blades like Florentine like a poster before me mentioned.

3. I disagree. I find the dual saber combat forms acrobatic and somewhat graceful. The combat animations of Carnage look like it takes years of practice and skill to master, more so than Anni or Rage.