Riggz Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Hello I think we can all agree that the leathilty tree needs some work. Yes the damage output is fine, but we have to work harder than our fellow snipers Sniper's Cull -No TA requirement -Ranged ability -Castable -Hits 3x Operative's Cull -TA requirement -10m range ability -Insta cast -Hits 1x Bioware believes since our ability is an insta cast the TA requirement is required. That I agree with, however here's the real problem. We have no real TA generation minus shiv. Hidden Strike gives us a TA yes, but can only be used from stealth. That wouldn't bother me so much if we had the same insta stealth cooldown as concealment, or that we didn't spawn somehow still in combat Here's my proposed changes -Weakening Blast now generates a TA when used -Cloaking Screen now has 1 min 30 sec cooldown -Impossible to spawn and still be in combat These changes would in no way shape or form make us overpowered. It would simply make it easier for us to generate TA's Thoughts, Opinions? p.s Ever see an operative leathilty beat a sniper leathilty? Edited November 18, 2012 by Riggz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScrubinMuhTub Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Step 1: Give operatives Camo that doesn't reduce incoming damage by 50%, but instead makes the next hidden strike free. Step 2: Watch magic happen. ps: Quickshot/Overload Rifle is probably the worst ability in the game. I don't even want the +15% damage bonus to it. You can have it back. It's that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I agree that the one thing clearly missing from Op lethality is a TA proc. The two other trees have a way to proc TA other than shiv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lklinga Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Yeah to heal a companion for the TA is bit strange but it works even in oprations. I know it is awkward and there should be a way to generate TA at 10 m range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 give crit poisons a TA generating mechanics (besides energy bonus). Problem solved. You can play lethality now at its full potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narien Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 give crit poisons a TA generating mechanics (besides energy bonus). Problem solved. You can play lethality now at its full potential. We have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilTsar Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 give crit poisons a TA generating mechanics (besides energy bonus). Problem solved. You can play lethality now at its full potential. i prefer hemmorhaging blast proccing for more personal control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 12s CD, right? Only one TA every 12s? You need at least one TA every 6s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sildanar Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Hello I think we can all agree that the leathilty tree needs some work. Yes the damage output is fine, but we have to work harder than our fellow snipers Sniper's Cull -No TA requirement -Ranged ability -Castable -Hits 3x Operative's Cull -TA requirement -10m range ability -Insta cast -Hits 1x Bioware believes since our ability is an insta cast the TA requirement is required. That I agree with, however here's the real problem. We have no real TA generation minus shiv. Hidden Strike gives us a TA yes, but can only be used from stealth. That wouldn't bother me so much if we had the same insta stealth cooldown as concealment, or that we didn't spawn somehow still in combat Here's my proposed changes -Weakening Blast now generates a TA when used -Cloaking Screen now has 1 min 30 sec cooldown -Impossible to spawn and still be in combat These changes would in no way shape or form make us overpowered. It would simply make it easier for us to generate TA's Thoughts, Opinions? p.s Ever see an operative leathilty beat a sniper leathilty? Weakening Blast granting a TA is an excellent solution, as is giving a TA proc from poison dmg ..both would work. I prefer your solution of Weakening blast though..more control on when it happens. Also you would still have Shiv, so 2 ways to proc a TA, one of which has a 10m range. Further more I would like to see some mechanic to prevent cleasing of dots in PVP. eg: when weakening Blast is in effect, our DoTs are immune to cleansing.. I would also like to see Lethal Purpose return slightly more energy. The spec is almost there, but here is an intersting contrast take all of the ideas listed above The TA proc from Weakening blast (your idea) Weakening Blasts effect also preventing DOT cleansing more energy from Lethal Purpose now that sounds OP right?? Now think of Smash Juggs/Mara's... Lethality spec Operatives could take substantial buffs and still be no where near OP. Admittedly Smash spec is completely broken but you get my point I would love to see some QOL improvements and outright buffs to this spec. Not enough Lethality operatives in Operations and I never see them in pvp.. Edited November 20, 2012 by Sildanar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilTsar Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 12s CD, right? Only one TA every 12s? You need at least one TA every 6s. like the above poster points out, we still have shiv. problem with leth is not so much a lack of potential culls/ta proc/dps, but the awkwardness of still being reliant on a melee attack as a quasi midrange class. id like to see leth be more effective outside of 4 meters, but not fully, like a pt. good parallel i think is the ap build of pts. they have two strong melee attacks that ideally they use, and both have a a chance to proc an autocrit railshot, which is certainly nice. but ap isnt the railshot tree, its the flamethrower tree. i can be 75% effective without my melee attacks or an autocrit rail. leth on the other hand, without regular shivvage, is what 50%? if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallerup Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) everyone knows that operatives/scoundrels aren't a dps class. their only viable role in PvE is healer. It seems Bioware wanted them this way. sad but true. but the shared tree is always better for one AC than it is for the other. take madness for example.. it is designed with Sorcerer in mind, not the assassin. a madness sorcerer out classes the assassin by miles. If you think I'm trolling, just look at them. In PvP, DPS Ops are a joke, unless they tag team (2 Ops) or wear full WH gear and their victim doesn't. Edited November 21, 2012 by Fallerup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazingShadow Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I agree with the OP... tried rolling Lethality in lowbie PVP, lvl40 op. I actually topped dmg charts but who cares, it's pre-50. The spec is nice for the ability to cast its DoTs on far away foes, but it sucks because it's hard to keep up with targets. you have to sneak up on em and keep em locked down with corrosive snare and sever tendon. Also energy management is horrible, and the payoff is good but not GREAT. It'd be nice to see the energy requirement lifted from cull, 30% chance to grant TA from DoTs or a guranteed TA from backstab, or both! Those changes would help soo much with action management and make it a fun spec to use. I like the spec, but the energy management es horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
af_raptura Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 The truth is that Lethality is the spec I want to try out on my lowbie operative. The only thing that has really stopped me is the tactical advantage issues I keep hearing so much about. I am currently leveling in Medicine, but I would like to have some more options if I decide pvp healing is a bit too tough for me. I am going to give this thread a high rating and hope it catches the attention of someone in BW. Best of luck to all of us operatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Lethality without Cull is a dead weight. So the easier culling is, the better lethality is. Sniper has it very simple, yet reliable, 30 meters, ability to sit in cover and get basically 3 operative culls in 3 sec with a 9 sec CD. Not bad, not bad. So the question is how operative specific abilities synergize with cull? So far i haven't found anything that gives operative a serious edge in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiltonium Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 they just need to make cull have a chance to proc a TA like collatoral strike on a poison target. Allowing poison crits to proc a TA is a big ridiculous, I am sorry. You'd be able to refresh your own TA every 6 seconds, as well as double chances to proc another one every dot tick, you could technically have one up at almost all times. And cull's damage makes lacerate look like it tickles. Yes lethality needs a new way to reliably build a TA, but not the ability to spam cull, that'd be OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 they just need to make cull have a chance to proc a TA like collatoral strike on a poison target. Allowing poison crits to proc a TA is a big ridiculous, I am sorry. You'd be able to refresh your own TA every 6 seconds, as well as double chances to proc another one every dot tick, you could technically have one up at almost all times. And cull's damage makes lacerate look like it tickles. Yes lethality needs a new way to reliably build a TA, but not the ability to spam cull, that'd be OP. Problem is, i am not sure that operative cull can currently keep up with sniper cull. With sniper i can get 3 ticks channeled during 3 seconds, then after 6 seconds, i can start culling again. I am not sure ops can provide such an output with current TA requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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