As most of you know, I have been heavily playing WoW for the last few months and loving it. I have also gotten very drawn in to a lot of the WoW YouTuber's channels and the great work they do talking about the game, the updates, the new content, and discussing lore and other things that I find very interesting. But this post is not about WoW, it's about SWTOR and Bioware. I only make reference to the other to give credit where it is due: The following is taken from a recent stream about WoW that I think very heavily applies to SWTOR also.

The forums are a den of discontent a majority of the time. Once in awhile you'll get an "I love this game, thank you Devs!" post, but those are pretty few and far between. Now, this is not unique to SWTOR (it happens a ton over at WoW too, and other games too I'm sure). But the following points were made, and it struck me so squarely as something to think about and consider that I wanted to share it with you.

Before I do, I wanted to clarify that these are not my words, but rather those of a brilliant WoW YouTube personality named Taliesin of "Taliesin & Evitel Do Games" channel and specifically from the following video:

Blue text indicates me inserting my own words that make this relevant to SWTOR. I also took a small amount of editorial license to make this a more generic statement, though not much. It's pretty close to word for word.

"Criticism is fine, as long as you are criticizing the right thing. No one is pretending that everything about the game is perfect and rightly or wrongly, a fair number among the player base have legitimate concerns about parts of the game (for SWTOR: class balance, lack of substantial content updates, bugs, etc.) that affect different players to different degrees. But no one is suggesting that they are not legitimate concerns. Some people are having plenty of fun regardless. Some are so frustrated that they are openly hostile toward the game - which is okay. Or, towards the people that make it - which is not okay. The problem is, like in real life when you decide that you dislike someone (and you might have a really good reason for disliking them), after awhile every little thing they do annoys you. Even when they're not doing anything wrong. And the problem is, the more you get angry with them doing nothing wrong, the more irrational you look to everyone else."

Now, he is talking about people on the WoW forums going ape***** over a mount that is being offered alongside a 6-month subscription to the game, but it applies here in so many cases also that I thought it relevant enough to post as some food for thought among us forumites.

This is also going to be one of my last posts here, as my subscription will be running out very soon and with it will go my forum privileges. I kind of like the fact that one of my last posts here (at least for now) will be about stopping to think about what you're angry about before you post a rant on the forums about the latest way in which the game has offended you. In my case, I'm not leaving mad, I'm just leaving. Until there is more new content to play, I will be playing where there is lots of new content. I'm not a "locust" by any means, I've been here for just shy of 7 years without a break. But I think that is also the reason that repeating what is in the game again (and again, and again) doesn't sit well with me anymore. Without Conquest to motivate those repeat performances of raids, or PvP matches... they do not appeal anymore. But they did once upon a time, and I'm grateful to have been there for that.

Peace and love to you all. May the force be with you.

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Great context, and well presented

I am of the opinion that haters love to hate.. and given their almost universal presence across the various gaming forums.... it seems to be THE thing to do. It's mindless and two dimensional thinking in many cases... but it is what it is I guess.

Personally, I prefer to hold back on over the top hyperbolic criticisms as they achieve nothing positive in terms of outcome between players and a studio. When I see something that myself or others are critical of... my first step is to think about what it is that is being criticized and think through what the motivators might be for a studio doing something the way they do. This has been my approach in every MMO I have played over the last 20 years. And I don't limit to gaming discussions either.

If I have a great experience with a business or service.. I actually go out of my way to reach out to the leadership in the business and let them know that they and their staff did an outstanding job in customer service. Not many people do this these days ... as they seem to prefer to stay quiet about good service and go full venom on any perceived sleight or bad service. I guess it is just the inherent nature of most consumers these days.

Very well said, both your words and the quote. There is little more that I can add as your post echos many of my same thoughts, so I will simply say that yours is a voice of reason that will be sorely missed on this forum.

May all your attacks be crits, all your chests be filled with shinies, and don't forget to gather for buffs.

A voice of reason doesn't influence Bioware. Neither does hate, but hating the manner in which Bioware runs SWTOR is entirely justified. It's stupid to get upset about a mount in WoW, but SWTOR subscribers can't even afford the luxury of bursting a vein over cosmetics, since there are too many real issues.

WoW gets class adjustments on a monthly basis, more or less. When they come out with an expansion, they don't completely ruin that balance either.

SWTOR ends up having major imbalances with every expansion that can take a year to be addressed.

The merc situation was a prime example. November of 2016 (5.0) mercs get huge buffs. November 2017, 364 days to be exact, (5.6) mercs finally get an adjustment. In mid December of 2016 the forums were flooded with "Mercs are too OP", but of course the community was completely ignored.

If you love SWTOR enough that you want it to grow, or at least sustain itself, then why wouldn't you hate Bioware's negligent behavior? Just like love, hate can be intellectually justified and completely merited. A few vocal people going off the rails doesn't nullify that in the slightest. That's just a sign that they care, or used to care.

We're down to one and a half servers in NA now. Out of what, over 200? So I ask you, which has won...love of Bioware or hatred of Bioware? And as consumers who love Star Wars and who love video games, whose fault is that, exactly?

Voices of reason turn to voices of hate when they get continually ignored. They're not opposing ideologies.

It was never Reason Vs Hate. It's Reason and Hate Vs Negligence, Incompetence, and Indifference.

Anyone who is going to come on forums to angrily rant about something is going to skip reading the "voice of reason" thread 99% of the time before they've posted whatever they wanted to rant about but good effort?

Community managers are pretty good at differentiating which threads are worth following for general community feelings, which just turned to random hard-to-follow offtopic conversation, which threads are just getting bumped by a few same people to promote their ideas over and over and which ones bring feedback and ideas on the table.

Especially now that forum's are not super active and threads take a few days to fall to second page without contribution even in general. People atm don't even care enough to complain to keep conversation active.

Nice post anyway for some.

It was never Reason Vs Hate. It's Reason and Hate Vs Negligence, Incompetence, and Indifference.

This.

Reason doesn't work it never has. And we have too much negligence, incompetence and indifference in gaming now on the part of those making the games. This is why folks like Sony and CDPR are ahead of everyone as they work with gamers to make for better games. It's why Blizzard, Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft and Bethesda are using scam tactics in order to make sales.

Really WoW sadly now is a great case in point of what not to do. Blizzard is ignoring it's community and now have to do a scam in order to keep sub numbers up. It's why EA are in damage control mode with Anthem and Battlefield V. It's why Bethesda will start cutting projects when Fallout 76 bombs.

It's a simple fix really. Start working with the community and doing what the community wants. Start making sure games are bug free. Stop putting gambling boxes or rng in general in. Really it's that simple. We tried reason and that's not working. What you call hate? See that works, it shows people until something is fixed they should stay away.

This is also going to be one of my last posts here, as my subscription will be running out very soon and with it will go my forum privileges.

I thought you already left in the Spring, to be honest.

There isn't really anything to talk about on this forum anymore anyway. It's only the very last remaining people left, many of them not known for being overly critical towards the game. Everyone else has been muzzled through the years in one way or another or just left (more or less) quietly.

It has been weeks since I found a thread interesting enough to reply to. This forum basically reflects what is going on in the game these days: nothing much. Reddit doesn't look much better either. I check once per day on my phone and I don't have to scroll for long to get to the posts I already read the day before. Not even the hardcore haters on Dulfys feel like hating anymore.

The status of the game becomes more and more indifferent.

I never hated BW and I found many of the rants here kinda cringeworthy. But at least it was something. Now... just meh everywhere. I think indifference is worse than hate. It means no affection whatsoever is left. A hating player is mentally still involved in the game. An indifferent player doesn't care anymore. And just leaves for good. Quietly.

There is a difference between the voice of reason (which implies you speak for everyone in this regard, which you don't) and an opinion with an ulterior motivation, as you have in effect taken apart a quote referred to another user on another game and tried to make it yours on this forum, and further dressed it up pointing to the fact you no longer have any interest in SWTOR and the way it is run and your gushing over WoW.

i wish you have voiced your own concerns instead, i mean you have been around long enough where you have banked enough favors with the other forumnites to get to the point in an honest fashion. hate is part of the issue but beyond hate lies apathy and eventually disiilusionment. from the way you have come across, i think you have gotten past hate and apathy after 7 years and now it is a case of being disillusioned.

i had the same thing going on world of tanks years ago, i grew hateful, burned that out and after i snapped at the apathy stage it was all down hill from there, like the elastic cords were cut and i made my way out and felt free. i would hardly expect your return though, as you immerse yourself in WoW through every pore on your body, it will feel like bliss, something so fresh and new that you will give up on the idea of returning to SWTOR for good.

i do know what it is about. in any event, go enjoy yourself and don't look back as you only live once and if you do remember this game in a year from now, you can always drop in at any moment, assuming everything continues to that point without issue.

I thought you already left in the Spring, to be honest.

I did quit playing the game, but had purchased a long term sub (as I had for the last 7 years) that is getting ready to expire. I haven't actively played the game since May.

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There is a difference between the voice of reason (which implies you speak for everyone in this regard, which you don't) and an opinion with an ulterior motivation, as you have in effect taken apart a quote referred to another user on another game and tried to make it yours on this forum, and further dressed it up pointing to the fact you no longer have any interest in SWTOR and the way it is run and your gushing over WoW.

 

i wish you have voiced your own concerns instead, i mean you have been around long enough where you have banked enough favors with the other forumnites to get to the point in an honest fashion. hate is part of the issue but beyond hate lies apathy and eventually disiilusionment. from the way you have come across, i think you have gotten past hate and apathy after 7 years and now it is a case of being disillusioned.

 

i had the same thing going on world of tanks years ago, i grew hateful, burned that out and after i snapped at the apathy stage it was all down hill from there, like the elastic cords were cut and i made my way out and felt free. i would hardly expect your return though, as you immerse yourself in WoW through every pore on your body, it will feel like bliss, something so fresh and new that you will give up on the idea of returning to SWTOR for good.

 

i do know what it is about. in any event, go enjoy yourself and don't look back as you only live once and if you do remember this game in a year from now, you can always drop in at any moment, assuming everything continues to that point without issue.

The "voice of reason" is actually not me, and I did not ever pretend that it was. I gave total credit to the person who said these words, and posted why I feel like they apply to any game and the associated forum. I stated this pretty clearly, so I'm not sure where you are getting that I tried to speak for everyone, or claimed those words were mine. But I assure you that there is no ulterior motive. I just felt like it was a reasonable thing to consider, if you are into that kind of thing.

Now, as many have pointed out here - it's hard to find reasonable people on the internet these days. Here, Reddit, Dulfy's comments section... these places tend to be filled with Bioware hate. I felt like the idea that people are so mad at Bioware that they can do nothing right and get blame even when they aren't doing anything wrong was pretty appropriate. So I posted about it. That's really it.

As I said, I'm not mad or resentful about Bioware or this game. It is disappointing that the game hasn't lived up to what it could have been for the last few years, what it had going in the 2.0 and 3.0 era was pretty good, honestly. But it's not the end of the world. A new player to this game will find plenty to do and enjoy, especially if they stay away from the forums.

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Hate threads don't bother me. Games with healthy populations and largely content player bases have them by the dozens at once. What I find more disturbing is inactivity. Silence means that people don't even care enough to complain and have moved on.

Agreed!

The "voice of reason" is actually not me, and I did not ever pretend that it was. I gave total credit to the person who said these words, and posted why I feel like they apply to any game and the associated forum. I stated this pretty clearly, so I'm not sure where you are getting that I tried to speak for everyone, or claimed those words were mine. But I assure you that there is no ulterior motive. I just felt like it was a reasonable thing to consider, if you are into that kind of thing.

Guess i will just leave it at agreeing to disagree then since i can't see this getting anywhere. Any more will look like an accusation which will lead to a defensive response and from there it will get worse i'm guessing since 9/10 times it goes that way.

Hate threads don't bother me. Games with healthy populations and largely content player bases have them by the dozens at once. What I find more disturbing is inactivity. Silence means that people don't even care enough to complain and have moved on.

I tend to agree with this.

All too often it seems as though nobody's ever happy with anything that is done. Something that makes one group of players happy is a deal breaker for another. Some comments do seem designed to inflame and troll. Such is life when you have a lot of people with a lot of different views.

But when people voice complaints, concerns, suggestions, con-crit, it means they're invested in it. When they stop subbing, stop commenting and give up that they're being listened to, it's far more concerning.

I tend to agree with this.

 

All too often it seems as though nobody's ever happy with anything that is done. Something that makes one group of players happy is a deal breaker for another. Some comments do seem designed to inflame and troll. Such is life when you have a lot of people with a lot of different views.

 

But when people voice complaints, concerns, suggestions, con-crit, it means they're invested in it. When they stop subbing, stop commenting and give up that they're being listened to, it's far more concerning.

This is exactly right. People complain when they CARE. They may phrase it poorly, they may offend other players, they may not take into account other players opinions when they state theirs...but that's okay...they still care enough to post about what's bugging them. Trolling bothers me...real criticism doesn't.

Great context, and well presented

 

I am of the opinion that haters love to hate.. and given their almost universal presence across the various gaming forums.... it seems to be THE thing to do. It's mindless and two dimensional thinking in many cases... but it is what it is I guess.

 

Personally, I prefer to hold back on over the top hyperbolic criticisms as they achieve nothing positive in terms of outcome between players and a studio. When I see something that myself or others are critical of... my first step is to think about what it is that is being criticized and think through what the motivators might be for a studio doing something the way they do. This has been my approach in every MMO I have played over the last 20 years. And I don't limit to gaming discussions either.

 

If I have a great experience with a business or service.. I actually go out of my way to reach out to the leadership in the business and let them know that they and their staff did an outstanding job in customer service. Not many people do this these days ... as they seem to prefer to stay quiet about good service and go full venom on any perceived sleight or bad service. I guess it is just the inherent nature of most consumers these days.

I already feel sorry for you just by reading this post.....

The anger some players have comes first of all from the fact that they love the game and they are angry about how Bioware/EA handles this game since 5.0 in particular.

You think they are doing a great job ? You can see that they aren't doing a good job at all just by looking at the state of the game. They had to merge servers and introduce cross faction to address population loss. Why do you think so many people left the game over these 2 or 3 years ? Because of the outstanding job they've done ?

I don't blame them to be honest. It's not like they can do anything about it since they are owned by EA and that's who is dictating the direction of the game, and quite frankly at this point EA just doesn't care, SWTOR isn't a priority and it were, it would be developed like every other damn MMO on the market.

People pay a monthly fee and expect to get something in return and that something is called CONTENT, bud. Content is something this game hasn't got for a very long time now. And I'm not talking about 20 min FPs and stories that you forget as soon you finish them, I am talking about content, class adjustments.. fixing those damn bugs and so son.

World of Warcraft has a gearing system that is worse than SWTOR's yet 10 times more people play that game than this one. Why do you think this is ? Because that game is taken care of and the studio behind it supports the game. Probably those players feel that they get something for their money ?

Do you understand now why people are angry ? Because they care about this game and hate to see it being let down like it is.

How EA run a game that could still make them a lot of money run it the way they do ?

I already feel sorry for you just by reading this post.....

 

The anger some players have comes first of all from the fact that they love the game and they are angry about how Bioware/EA handles this game since 5.0 in particular.

 

You think they are doing a great job ? You can see that they aren't doing a good job at all just by looking at the state of the game. They had to merge servers and introduce cross faction to address population loss. Why do you think so many people left the game over these 2 or 3 years ? Because of the outstanding job they've done ?

 

I don't blame them to be honest. It's not like they can do anything about it since they are owned by EA and that's who is dictating the direction of the game, and quite frankly at this point EA just doesn't care, SWTOR isn't a priority and it were, it would be developed like every other damn MMO on the market.

 

People pay a monthly fee and expect to get something in return and that something is called CONTENT, bud. Content is something this game hasn't got for a very long time now. And I'm not talking about 20 min FPs and stories that you forget as soon you finish them, I am talking about content, class adjustments.. fixing those damn bugs and so son.

 

World of Warcraft has a gearing system that is worse than SWTOR's yet 10 times more people play that game than this one. Why do you think this is ? Because that game is taken care of and the studio behind it supports the game. Probably those players feel that they get something for their money ?

 

Do you understand now why people are angry ? Because they care about this game and hate to see it being let down like it is.

 

How EA run a game that could still make them a lot of money run it the way they do ?

Maybe re-read my post more carefully, because you projected quite a lot on me that I did not actually say. Tell you what.. I will color code my response to you.. maybe it will help you better understand my viewpoint on the topic.. which you are of course free to disagree with.. but please do so without the passive aggressive slur.

There is honest and objective criticism presented by players, and there is the over the top, angry, foaming-at-the-mouth rhetoric that serves no purpose other then to vent venom at a studio.. about a game of all things. A game.

I support the former, and even encourage it, regardless if I agree with it or not. I refuse to support the latter.. because all it does is drown out actual objective criticisms and suggestions.

And honestly, I could care less if you feel sorry for me or not..as it is just a passive aggressive drive by on your part to try to discredit my viewpoint. It is not my fault you are angry.

Note: I clearly saw that Penny Ann was referring to THIS TYPE of poster... and PennyAnn is absolutely correct.

Maybe re-read my post more carefully, because you projected quite a lot on me that I did not actually say. Tell you what.. I will color code my response to you.. maybe it will help you better understand my viewpoint on the topic.. which you are of course free to disagree with.. but please do so without the passive aggressive slur.

 

There is honest and objective criticism presented by players, and there is the over the top, angry, foaming-at-the-mouth rhetoric that serves no purpose other then to vent venom at a studio.. about a game of all things. A game.

 

I support the former, and even encourage it, regardless if I agree with it or not. I refuse to support the latter.. because all it does is drown out actual objective criticisms and suggestions.

 

And honestly, I could care less if you feel sorry for me or not..as it is just a passive aggressive drive by on your part to try to discredit my viewpoint. It is not my fault you are angry.

 

Note: I clearly saw that Penny Ann was referring to THIS TYPE of poster... and PennyAnn is absolutely correct.

Nah..we're good. That part in your post with customer service put me off...

I am not supporting hate and I agree that it doesn't lead anywhere and this case nor did constructive criticism of the game. It's a vicious circle.. The players want something, but that's not the direction the studio wants or plans to go..

Maybe re-read my post more carefully, because you projected quite a lot on me that I did not actually say. Tell you what.. I will color code my response to you.. maybe it will help you better understand my viewpoint on the topic.. which you are of course free to disagree with.. but please do so without the passive aggressive slur.

 

There is honest and objective criticism presented by players, and there is the over the top, angry, foaming-at-the-mouth rhetoric that serves no purpose other then to vent venom at a studio.. about a game of all things. A game.

 

I support the former, and even encourage it, regardless if I agree with it or not. I refuse to support the latter.. because all it does is drown out actual objective criticisms and suggestions.

 

And honestly, I could care less if you feel sorry for me or not..as it is just a passive aggressive drive by on your part to try to discredit my viewpoint. It is not my fault you are angry.

 

Note: I clearly saw that Penny Ann was referring to THIS TYPE of poster... and PennyAnn is absolutely correct.

When will you get it? Let me put it in big letters so you understand.

THE LATTER IS THE ONLY THING THAT WORKS!

Look at SWG we told the Dev's outright after they threw the NGE on us to revert the game back to the Pre-CU as that's what we the community wanted. They ignored us. Now there's no more SWG and why is that? We warned people and told them how the SWG Dev's treated us. People made up their own minds and decided SWG wasn't worth the time or trouble. And really? SOE could have fixed things easy with a Pre-CU server or putting elements of the Pre-CU in. They didn't. We got ignored.

And that's what has been going on in gaming as a whole. Look at Battlefield V, Dev's are ignoring the community and the game has barely any pre-orders. WoW ignored it's community and it's in damage control mode. Publishers are ignoring us telling them to remove gambling boxes and microtransactions, now no one will buy or play the games with them and are warning people off.

We tried being nice, it doesn't work and it never will.

Look at SWG we told the Dev's outright after they threw the NGE on us to revert the game back to the Pre-CU as that's what we the community wanted. They ignored us. Now there's no more SWG and why is that?

You're either intentionally misremembering or just plain nose deaf to your own stink. Pre NGE = 2 years. NGE to shut down = 6 years. As much as I hated the NGE it wasn't the cause of the game's shutdown.

You're either intentionally misremembering or just plain nose deaf to your own stink. Pre NGE = 2 years. NGE to shut down = 6 years. As much as I hated the NGE it wasn't the cause of the game's shutdown.

Pre-CU 300k subs.

NGE barely 50k.

I don't know about you but I think losing 250k people is one of the things that led to SWG shutting down. Add in the NGE game just limped along on life support after the NGE came out with no real content updates besides things they already started doing before hand.

I find your lack of reasoning voice disturbing.

My issues with BW and EA are due to the devs straying away from the original direction of the game. I understand adapting to new game mechanics and making adjustments here and there to keep players interested in their product and to coax fresh subscribers.

My issues are when these adjustments are changing the core mechanics of the game. a few examples are:

Companions are a lie, there is only solo play.

companions gear ratings removed.

before 3.0, we could fine tune our companions via gear and really make them strong at a specific meta.

mako was a very strong healer or dps with a min/max set of gear.

pierce was by far the best tank/dps companion when geared properly

kaliyo was a very strong tank for an operative healer

i had HM FPs on farm solo with a geared companion. before i got into operations heavy and more pvp, i would solo HM FPs for gear, I would assist new players to help them gear out and prep for pvp/operations using HMFPs. it was a great place for new players to get some stats before SM Ops at anytime of the day and didnt need a full 4 man group let alone 7 more for a SM Operation. that was my content for a couple years. BW removed this with the companion changes. companions are garbage now. they cant take burst dps nor heal through burst like a properly min/max geared companion from years ago. i will agree, companion dps is strong, only during the level up process. You can not solo a HM (Veteran) FP since these changes. the companions defenses do not work, they cant equip an off-hand shield, cant heal through burst phases.

I was very out spoken on these changes and was banned quite a few times because of the red flags i was pointing out. BW lost me then.

tanks have been broken for quite a while. DPS wise and mitigation wise.

dps has been toned down but many of us still run dps gear on our tanks in pvp. pvp is all about doing dmg, more so than shielding and guarding players. guard works and many complain about the 50% damage reduction. mitigation stats are making a come back, but its too little too late. this should have been corrected years ago.

removing the 4 main stats and making 1 stat. willpower, cunning, aim, and strength turned into mastery. i understand it but it dumbed down the game. over simplified stats.

Through solo play, I gain bad habits.

removal of abilities. 2.6 saw the ground work that was 3.0 with the removal of abilities from classes. merging of abilities, and turning active abilities into passive abilities. again it was to free up slots for the upcoming new abilities associated with a higher level cap.but for me, concealment operative felt clunky without hidden strike, acid blade always on, and backstab. though they did bring some of these back in a way. knockdown made a return. but later sin lost phasewalk when it was originally a sin only ability. the clunky changes to BH and Commando still has merc and PTs wishing they had the old abilities back. the new ones and animations never felt right for the class. BW reason was to differentiate the classes more with their own special animations and renamed abilities.

Through bad habits, I lose power.

companions, again yes. their abilities were halved. they lost some abilities and they are all the same. they can do all 3 roles. their unique abilities are gone. vette and mako were great at single tgt dps or aoe dps. some of the abilities were invaluable in those HM FPs i ran. they arent there anymore. HK-51 is only a shell of what this special assassin droid once was.

Through loss of power, I cannot gain victory.

speed at which you gain XP. i remember when it took longer than a weekend to level up a character. we made youtube videos on how to speed level in around 8-10 hours for experienced players. now it takes less time than that, on the inexperienced. i watched my wife, mindlessly smashing abilities or using 1 or 2 from level 1 - 70. she doesnt know how to heal, cleanse, cc, interrupt, or guard properly. she sends the craptastic companion out first usually on a gold or silver while she cleans up via chainning AoE attacks. its comical at first but frustrating when i try to explain a more efficient way and get a rotation going.

BW has brought some of the original mechanics back along with some abilities. the CM +41 stat crystals were an admitted mistake. they were originally going to increase the stats on the color crystals as more level caps were added. they cant due to the CM sales of these crystals.

Through loss, my game play is broken.

all these changes though small impacted the gameplay greatly. especially when the devs dumbed down PVE into the faceroll it is now. all enemies are hitting less and have less health. leveling up characters is boring. there isnt a challenge there for new players. we have had huge issues with players not knowing their own abilities and how to use them properly, yet alone know when and when not to use an interrupt or CC. it shows up in FP runs all the time and is highlighted in Operations much more than it used to be. before, the game play was slower and allowed for players to learn new abilities as they leveled up.

TL: DR

ive said it so many times before. BW dumbed down the game for a more simple minded casual player base. it wasnt to improve long term player experience and gameplay. those that get offended by that are the ones that BW caters too now. BW changed the original direction of this MMO into a story driven single player rpg with some group activities.

The Force shall imprison me.

I watched SOE kill off SWG with CU and NGE, watched Age of Conan slowly dies with their own version of a combat upgrade when Funcom dumbed down combat mechanics of abilities. BW devs at EA's direction has SWTOR following in the same footsteps, except they are taking their sweet time with it by spreading these core game play mechanic changes out over years. Many would have said the same thing if overnight those abilities are removed, merged, passive, gear is pointless with level sync, companions are all the same with half the abilities, you can level up over night, NPCs die quicker, no reason to do group content, you will level up faster and no need to learn mechanics of the game while you level up. its nonsense.

when you combine all the changes made to the original core gameplay, its BWs take on Sony Online Entertainment's NGE but spread out over years. Prior game directors have admitted to failing the original SWTOR direction and its fans/player base with 4.0-5.X changes. They went in the wrong direction and subscriptions went down, cartel market sales fell as the community left for other games much quicker than anticipated. KOTFE & KOTET dont even feel like a star wars story.

Companions are a lie, there is only solo play.

Through solo play, I gain bad habits.

Through bad habits, I lose power.

Through lack of power, I cannot gain victory.

Through loss, my game play is broken.

The Force shall imprison me.

Pre-CU 300k subs.

 

NGE barely 50k.

 

I don't know about you but I think losing 250k people is one of the things that led to SWG shutting down. Add in the NGE game just limped along on life support after the NGE came out with no real content updates besides things they already started doing before hand.

Actual data belies your claim.

SWG did not reach a decline to 50K until late 2009 (which was when they did a major server consolidation due to years of persistent population drops).

NGE released in late 2005, at which point SWG was already down from it's peak to around 200k before NGE went live.. and actually added players for a bit when NGE released (mostly people trying out the retooling of SWG I imagine).

NGE released largely in response to ongoing hemorrhage of subs to WoW beginning in 2004 (every MMO at that time was making changes to try to squelch bleeding subs over to WoW). data source: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

This is exactly right. People complain when they CARE. They may phrase it poorly, they may offend other players, they may not take into account other players opinions when they state theirs...but that's okay...they still care enough to post about what's bugging them. Trolling bothers me...real criticism doesn't.

You guys are not wrong, and I agree. Criticism is good. I even say so in my original post. It's when you are so annoyed and disgusted with Bioware that they can NEVER do anything right that it's a problem. People that will find fault no matter what they are doing. Or, in the case of the new crafted Tier 5 gear - things they haven't even done yet!

You are missing the distinction between criticism or feedback, and just being hateful to Bioware because they can do nothing to please you any longer. That's the difference I'm talking about.

Like, when even if they gave you a million free cartel coins you'd find some way to call it a scam... I'm talking about you!

I hope that's a little more clear.

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