You do realise you can do both at the same time?.

how can you do dps guarding an objective that is not being attached for 5-10 minutes?

how can you do dps guarding an objective that is not being attached for 5-10 minutes?

I mean you don't; it doesn't mean someone doesn't have to do it. I have guarded nodes that largely go unattacked for a while, and when I don't that tends to be the person my mvp vote goes to.

That said trixxie's point that it is possible to do dps and objectives at the same time is largely valid. Assuming someone is properly guarding the off node, you are likely zerging mid and keeping the enemy from getting it, for example.

Aww telling other people what they should do to have fun and how to play and call everybody that doesn't think like yourself "live in a basement", this is a real mature person.

 

I was taught that winning is not everything the important is to play together and have fun since when this is considered "bad".

 

You see people that think only about winning is not any better than people that like to do dps or to have fun in any way they want but they think for some reason they are right and everybody else is wrong.

I would agree that winning is not everything with respect to sportsmanship, but I absolutely think that coming into a match with no intention whatsoever of playing the game to win is "wrong". It's a team game, where the stated goal from the people who made the game is to fight the other team and come out on top.

I think MMO's are the only group activity I've encountered where it's considered perfectly OK to just do your own thing after you sign up. Do people get into pick up basketball games and then, "hey, I'm just going to shoot free throws while the rest of you play the game - because I only want to practice my free throws"? Or go into a baseball tournament, and then run round and round the bases, "I'm only here to get my jogging exercise, and this is the best track for it - you guys don't mind, right?" I know I get into chess matches, and pull out my checkers. I can't get checkers games, because the chess people have all the boards, so this is perfectly justified.

I don't know where this idea came from that "I pay my sub, so I can do whatever I want". Sure, you *can*, since bioware has the say and they don't stop you. I can also routinely drive 10 miles an hour over the speed limit where I live, since the police don't really pull you over for that, and EVERYONE does it... doesn't mean it's not illegal/wrong.

I would agree that winning is not everything with respect to sportsmanship, but I absolutely think that coming into a match with no intention whatsoever of playing the game to win is "wrong". It's a team game, where the stated goal from the people who made the game is to fight the other team and come out on top.

 

I think MMO's are the only group activity I've encountered where it's considered perfectly OK to just do your own thing after you sign up. Do people get into pick up basketball games and then, "hey, I'm just going to shoot free throws while the rest of you play the game - because I only want to practice my free throws"? Or go into a baseball tournament, and then run round and round the bases, "I'm only here to get my jogging exercise, and this is the best track for it - you guys don't mind, right?" I know I get into chess matches, and pull out my checkers. I can't get checkers games, because the chess people have all the boards, so this is perfectly justified.

 

I don't know where this idea came from that "I pay my sub, so I can do whatever I want". Sure, you *can*, since bioware has the say and they don't stop you. I can also routinely drive 10 miles an hour over the speed limit where I live, since the police don't really pull you over for that, and EVERYONE does it... doesn't mean it's not illegal/wrong.

Very well put, and nice analogies.

I would agree that winning is not everything with respect to sportsmanship, but I absolutely think that coming into a match with no intention whatsoever of playing the game to win is "wrong". It's a team game, where the stated goal from the people who made the game is to fight the other team and come out on top.

 

I think MMO's are the only group activity I've encountered where it's considered perfectly OK to just do your own thing after you sign up. Do people get into pick up basketball games and then, "hey, I'm just going to shoot free throws while the rest of you play the game - because I only want to practice my free throws"? Or go into a baseball tournament, and then run round and round the bases, "I'm only here to get my jogging exercise, and this is the best track for it - you guys don't mind, right?" I know I get into chess matches, and pull out my checkers. I can't get checkers games, because the chess people have all the boards, so this is perfectly justified.

 

I don't know where this idea came from that "I pay my sub, so I can do whatever I want". Sure, you *can*, since bioware has the say and they don't stop you. I can also routinely drive 10 miles an hour over the speed limit where I live, since the police don't really pull you over for that, and EVERYONE does it... doesn't mean it's not illegal/wrong.

You know why people say and do this? Anonymity. That's it.

A group of guys head to the local basketball gym confidently with basketballs under their arms. Then as they get to the gym, they begin kicking the basketball like soccer even kicking it into the basket instead of shooting it with their arms and hands. When they are approached by the large group of men already there playing basketball as it is supposed to be played, they are asked what they are doing!

The small group of cocky guys continue to kick the ball, laughing all the time they are doing it. It's so much fun to just do whatever they want and not have to answer to anyone! Woohoo! Freedom!

As they kick basketballs around the gym, they begin proclaiming to everyone else on the court that they pay their taxes they "can play basketball any way we want!" Regardless of everyone else's complaints that they are ruining everyone else's games, they just continue, anyway. "We pay our taxes we can do anything we want here, too! It's our right!"

You seen that before many times, right?

Nope. Of course not. You have never seen this nor would you in a real life scenario. No, only in an online one do you have people that can abuse the rule set of a game all the while other proper gamers are trying to play the game the way it's meant to be played. No group of men would do that IRL. They would get booted off the court instantly and if they pushed it further they'd get their asses kicked.

That tells me just how we as people have devolved socially via the internet, right there. People's behavior and actions definitely are changed when a tag of total anonymity hangs over their heads. People become downright nasty and use their anonymity as a type of abuse of power in some ways. What it boils down to is sadly you can't afford the average person power or anonymity because they don't know how to handle that kind of power.

I would agree that winning is not everything with respect to sportsmanship, but I absolutely think that coming into a match with no intention whatsoever of playing the game to win is "wrong". It's a team game, where the stated goal from the people who made the game is to fight the other team and come out on top.

 

I think MMO's are the only group activity I've encountered where it's considered perfectly OK to just do your own thing after you sign up. Do people get into pick up basketball games and then, "hey, I'm just going to shoot free throws while the rest of you play the game - because I only want to practice my free throws"? Or go into a baseball tournament, and then run round and round the bases, "I'm only here to get my jogging exercise, and this is the best track for it - you guys don't mind, right?" I know I get into chess matches, and pull out my checkers. I can't get checkers games, because the chess people have all the boards, so this is perfectly justified.

 

I don't know where this idea came from that "I pay my sub, so I can do whatever I want". Sure, you *can*, since bioware has the say and they don't stop you. I can also routinely drive 10 miles an hour over the speed limit where I live, since the police don't really pull you over for that, and EVERYONE does it... doesn't mean it's not illegal/wrong.

depend on what do you consider winning for some people winning is having fun and making high dps number as they cannot choose their team-mates and they may end up with people that don't know how to play make an exercise in frustration to try to win the game as it is supposed to be played

again fail to see the perspective of other people won't help you fix the problem "it should be" or "theoretically" won't help the specific cases

until you don't accept that people can think differently than you and your theory you cannot start figuring out alternative

how can you do dps guarding an objective that is not being attached for 5-10 minutes?

The thesis for this arguments failure, right here.

The answer is obvious, you dont, but at that time in that role thats not your job, why does dps matter to that at all?

depend on what do you consider winning for some people winning is having fun and making high dps number as they cannot choose their team-mates and they may end up with people that don't know how to play make an exercise in frustration to try to win the game as it is supposed to be played

 

again fail to see the perspective of other people won't help you fix the problem "it should be" or "theoretically" won't help the specific cases

 

until you don't accept that people can think differently than you and your theory you cannot start figuring out alternative

Winning is winning. The game kindly helps you out with the "Victory" and "Defeat" messages. You're the one who is still confused. I think I can speak for Banderal when I say we understand exactly why people farm numbers. Those reasons have been thoroughly explored in threads like this one. That doesn't make it right.

You should stop pretending that just because people "think differently" that means that their thinking is equally valid. It's up to the people behaving badly to see and understand the error of their ways, or it's up to Bioware to change their systems to discourage that bad behavior. The one group that share no fault whatsoever are the people playing to win as the game intends. I notice how you didn't even attempt to understand or respond to Banderal's analogies, which were spot on. I wonder why.

What you suggested means the death of PVP in this game. People don't want ranks and ratings because that leads to toxicity and certain players grouping up to farm randoms to boost their ratings and claim the top rewards for themselves.

It's not like they couldn't make a separate solo ranked 8v8 queue or something. Would people queue for that though? IDK, but having to win for rating is involved so there would definitely be more Objs and strats involved like the old 8v8 days.

It's not like they couldn't make a separate solo ranked 8v8 queue or something. Would people queue for that though? IDK, but having to win for rating is involved so there would definitely be more Objs and strats involved like the old 8v8 days.

Even the old reg days of 8v8 was played with objective and strategy because people wanted to win. Plus, the players were better, so you had to try and out think each other as well as use keyboard skills.

If we had a solo ranked 8v8 queue, I would never step into Regs again. But we no longer have enough players to fill the queue.

If they’d implemented it at the same time as arena, I would have mostly been playing it for the last 9 years.

Even the old reg days of 8v8 was played with objective and strategy because people wanted to win. Plus, the players were better, so you had to try and out think each other as well as use keyboard skills.

 

If we had a solo ranked 8v8 queue, I would never step into Regs again. But we no longer have enough players to fill the queue.

If they’d implemented it at the same time as arena, I would have mostly been playing it for the last 9 years.

Thing is, new players will be entering PVP with no gear sets, no tacticals, no idea how to optimize their stats, etc.

So I can imagine the gap between experienced players and say, someone new coming to the game just stepping into PVP.

I am an experienced PVPer, and when I played my merc healer with no gear sets or tacticals a few weeks ago, my output was quite poor.

There's no way bolster even begins to level the field in PVP because it's not a matter of stat allocation so much as it is about the bonus abilities tacticals and gear sets add.

Without these gear sets and tacticals, I don't care how awesome a player is they are way behind those who have not only maxed gears but gear sets and tacticals at their disposal while new players do not.

So even when you take out the idiotic gameplay of players, there's a notable gear gap too, which only exacerbates the situation.

Thing is, new players will be entering PVP with no gear sets, no tacticals, no idea how to optimize their stats, etc.

 

So I can imagine the gap between experienced players and say, someone new coming to the game just stepping into PVP.

 

I am an experienced PVPer, and when I played my merc healer with no gear sets or tacticals a few weeks ago, my output was quite poor.

 

There's no way bolster even begins to level the field in PVP because it's not a matter of stat allocation so much as it is about the bonus abilities tacticals and gear sets add.

 

Without these gear sets and tacticals, I don't care how awesome a player is they are way behind those who have not only maxed gears but gear sets and tacticals at their disposal while new players do not.

 

So even when you take out the idiotic gameplay of players, there's a notable gear gap too, which only exacerbates the situation.

Set bonuses and tactical’s seem to matter more than stats these days. Even if your stats aren’t min maxed, you can still do really well if you have the right gear because bolster does alright stats wise.

The best solution seeing as they can’t make ranked 8v8 a viable option is to make winning more desirable than farming dps numbers on the score board.

We’ve all posted many ideas and ways over the years on how they could do this. It just needs Bioware to have the will to and care to try to improve pvp.

Anyway, it’ll be a while till I get to play again. Maybe 6,1.1 will be released by then and that game won’t be shut down if the US government decides Bioware isn’t an essential business or service

Set bonuses and tactical’s seem to matter more than stats these days. Even if your stats aren’t min maxed, you can still do really well if you have the right gear because bolster does alright stats wise.

 

The best solution seeing as they can’t make ranked 8v8 a viable option is to make winning more desirable than farming dps numbers on the score board.

We’ve all posted many ideas and ways over the years on how they could do this. It just needs Bioware to have the will to and care to try to improve pvp.

 

Anyway, it’ll be a while till I get to play again. Maybe 6,1.1 will be released by then and that game won’t be shut down if the US government decides Bioware isn’t an essential business or service

How come you can't play now, I figured with your quarantine you'd be able to binge game or watch Netflix etc.

How come you can't play now, I figured with your quarantine you'd be able to binge game or watch Netflix etc.

No PC, I’m stuck in the bedroom to be isolated from my family so I don’t make them sick. It’s like being stuck in a small hotel room for 6 days and you can’t leave. I still get room service (food), but I don’t get a menu like you do in a hotel.

I’ve also watched everything I wanted to on Netflix and Disney+. I’ve now started watching some really weird stuff on Netflix and lots of it is foreign with English voice overs. There is some real crap on Netflix, but sometimes you find a gem.

To keep my mind active I’ve been working on Coronavirus modelling and reading research papers on the virus.

These problems are largely caused by not having a filter for map types. Some PvPers are never going to care about objectives, so when they're forced to play Huttball, of course they're not going to care. The way the huttball maps are designed, the only place to actually pvp without it being a dumpster fire is mid, an endzone, or a pit. No, chasing a ball around and watching for stealthers in my endzone is not fun.

With that being said, OPG is one of the worst maps I've seen in MMO PvP. There's valid arguments for the other maps that posters have covered, regarding taking your fight to the node. I agree with these for the most part. OPG however encourages the team to split and avoid fights, which is the antithesis of PvP. If OPG was designed where the node would remain capped after leaving it, like ESO's Crazy King BGs, it would be significantly better.

The only time I actually care about Winning vs Losing in regs WZs is during a close game. If the other team wants to skirt every fight to just cap objectives I'm not going to play running simulator to catch them. If my team is getting steamrolled in every fight I don't get enjoyment from skirting the fights to capture the objectives. It's just a way to make a bad WZ end sooner. Contrary to what some of the posters in this thread believe, the views of myself, Jim, and the OP are the norm, not the views of the objective players who only care about WvL with mediocre rewards. There's a reason you see people on SF regularly ridicule objective-only players. There's an acronym for it nowadays actually: HOP, aka Horrible Objective Player

EDIT:

Also, for the people saying if you want to kill people just queue ranked, you realize ranked only actually pops a few hours each day, right? Even then, fleet pvp chat will have quite a few people asking others to queue ranked, because the pops are slow and non-existent.

No PC, I’m stuck in the bedroom to be isolated from my family so I don’t make them sick. It’s like being stuck in a small hotel room for 6 days and you can’t leave. I still get room service (food), but I don’t get a menu like you do in a hotel.

I’ve also watched everything I wanted to on Netflix and Disney+. I’ve now started watching some really weird stuff on Netflix and lots of it is foreign with English voice overs. There is some real crap on Netflix, but sometimes you find a gem.

To keep my mind active I’ve been working on Coronavirus modelling and reading research papers on the virus.

Narcos! You got to watch Narcos on Netflix it's great imo. Watch Deadwood if you have not yet it was on HBO but you can maybe find it elsewhere now... of course watch GoT if you have not.

Goliath with Billy Bob Thornton is decent too, on Amazon Prime. Another truly great series is The Boys on Amazon Prime. Only one season so far, but it is in the process of having the second season out soon! The Boys series is great I can't speak high enough, I guess it surprised me how good it is.

Narcos! You got to watch Narcos on Netflix it's great imo. Watch Deadwood if you have not yet it was on HBO but you can maybe find it elsewhere now... of course watch GoT if you have not.

 

Goliath with Billy Bob Thornton is decent too, on Amazon Prime. Another truly great series is The Boys on Amazon Prime. Only one season so far, but it is in the process of having the second season out soon! The Boys series is great I can't speak high enough, I guess it surprised me how good it is.

Never saw Narcos or Deadwood. Goliath I think I started and didn't get into. I absolutely HATED GoT. I guess I'm that one person. The Boys was awesome! I also really liked The Tick. Only two seasons though, and now it's been cancelled. The Good Place is probably one of the best comedies I've seen lately. I think Netflix has that.

If you haven't seen "One Hit Die" or "The Gamers", those are some nice spoofs of table top roll playing.

If you are into mystery series, Amazon has "Britbox" and "Acorn", both of which have some really good ones (and mix and match between them, which is kind of a pain - season 1 on Acorn, season 2 on britbox, that kind of thing). The Brokenwood Mysteries I cannot recommend highly enough. I really like the characters, and I find the plots superb. The kind of thing where they actually connect up small things you thought were just throwaway mannerisms or lines from early on that turn out to actually have a reason for them later on when the murder is solved. And then Vera, Midsomer Murders, My Life is Murder, classic Poirot and Miss Marple.

Last I was signed up for Netflix they had Death in Paradise which is a fun mystery series. First two seasons are by far the best in my opinion, just because of the banter between the two main characters.

If you want real life forensics stuff there is "Crime Scene Solvers". Scary as h-e-double-toothpicks sometimes when I'm watching it and remembering these are actual, live, really sick people that do the things they are investigating. Way worse than most of the fake mystery shows. It's good for seeing how real forensics stuff works. You'll never here Bones say, "and then we waited 3 weeks for the DNA analysis to come back", or "then nothing happened until TEN YEARS LATER". It's French with subtitles.

I do realize that ranked only pops a few hours a day. That is no excuse for bringing the bad attitude to my playstyle. You want to pvp so bad you do objective based pvp, you should also do what is required to win. It is not my fault ranked players have mostly left, and it is arguably other ranked players and BWs fault.

In ranked, killing the other team before they kill you is all that is required. In warzones, there are other requirements as well, and if both teams are playing objectively/strategically, most players will be fighting somewhere anyway. Yes theres going to be one guy that is stuck guarding. Its unavoidable because it's part of the format.

These problems are largely caused by not having a filter for map types.

I've thought this same thing for a long time. It's why I think bioware should add at least one, in my opinion a whole separate queue and several, deathmatch maps. But meh, not likely to happen now. They couldn't even be bothered, upon releasing 6.0, to move the "play x ranked matches" dailies and weeklies on the PvP mission terminal up from level 70 to level 75. I think that speaks volumes for the amount of thought and effort they put into PvP lately.

Some PvPers are never going to care about objectives, so when they're forced to play Huttball,...

No one is ever forced to play huttball. The responsible thing to do if you get a match type you don't want to play is to quit the match as soon as you see what it is. Not to go on in and play something else.

With that being said, OPG is one of the worst maps I've seen in MMO PvP. There's valid arguments for the other maps that posters have covered, regarding taking your fight to the node. I agree with these for the most part. OPG however encourages the team to split and avoid fights, which is the antithesis of PvP. If OPG was designed where the node would remain capped after leaving it, like ESO's Crazy King BGs, it would be significantly better.

I agree about OPG. But ESO Crazy King? The best way I've seen to approach either of the ESO capture-the-spot maps is exactly like OPG. Avoid any actual fights at all cost, and zerg to a point no one is at, take it, and then immediately leave (of course, as you point out, in OPG you can't leave - so I guess that's even worse). Any games I've played where my team gets "bogged down" fighting is almost always a loss as one of the other teams does the zerg thing.

Contrary to what some of the posters in this thread believe, the views of myself, Jim, and the OP are the norm, not the views of the objective players who only care about WvL with mediocre rewards. There's a reason you see people on SF regularly ridicule objective-only players. There's an acronym for it nowadays actually: HOP, aka Horrible Objective Player

I hardly ever see people ridiculing objective players on SF, and have never heard the HOP thing before (must mean I'm a HOP!). I think it must be the class of people you are hanging out with. Jokes aside, I do think that's a thing. People only ever really see the discussions that happen between the groups of people they hang out with, so naturally whatever that group does is the "norm", and what "everyone" thinks.

There's a derogatory acronym for people who only want to fight also, it's DM, for deathmatcher. I do think that for a lot of games at level 75 the norm is to have more deathmatchers than HOPs though. But I believe this is because DMs can pretty much ruin the match for HOPs, while HOPs can't really do that for DMs. If you are in a huttball game and you happen to throw the ball to a DM'r, then they just sit there with it, totally ignoring that they the have the ball, or they might spend a single global cooldown to throw it in some random direction. That pretty much ends any drive the objective players might have had going, but the fact that the objective players are trying to score hardly matters to the DMr. So the objective players just get fed up and stop queuing. Or they go "f-it, I guess we are just fighting". Pretty soon you are left with just the DMrs.

Also I've found quite a difference in lowbies and mids with regard to playing objectives. Granted, I haven't played lvl 75 PvP for a couple months, but comparing to that time... I get a TON more games in lows and mids where people actually are playing to win the game. Not always, but it's definitely more common than I was getting in 75s. On the other hand, I leave almost every OPG or huttball match now, since those seem to be the worst for people deathmatching, so maybe that's why.

Also, for the people saying if you want to kill people just queue ranked, you realize ranked only actually pops a few hours each day, right?

The fact that ranked doesn't pop as much has absolutely no bearing on whether it should be "OK' to queue up for a different game mode, and then not play that game mode. I like to play the card game euchre, but around here there's hardly ever a euchre game, everyone is always playing gin rummy. So I go to the gin rummy gatherings, and then when I sit down at the table I play euchre. That's perfectly fine right? Because euchre doesn't pop that often.

Besides, if there are way more people who just want to fight, and you all queued ranked, then ranked would be HOP'in (see what I did there?) day and night... wouldn't it?

You bring up some good points Slippery! I don't think the HOP rhetoric is really a thing on pub side, and correct me if I'm mistaken, but I do believe you play more on pub side. It's definitely not as prevalent as DMer, but I see it a decent bit. A point I've thought about a bit since my post is that HOP vs DM is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy: As players become more disillusioned with objectives by seeing their teammates deathmatch, they're more likely to lean toward DMing themselves. That happened to me, somewhat. That's not to say I'm a complete DMer. I always cap a node after I'm done fighting there, frequently go seek out 1v2s at enemy nodes, and hell I'll even run the huttball if it's a close game.

On the note of OPG: I'm not trying to stay that ESO's crazy-king mode is actually a GOOD system, domination is the better of the two point-based modes, being able to leave the node after capping it would turn a horrible map into a bad or ok map, on par with Queshball.

Not to further attack the people who enjoy objectives and want to see more obj. based play, but to sum up my opinion, there's three ways I see that reg WZs can go from here:

1) Add a filter for maps and add deathmatch modes, so DMers can happily DM and HOPs can happily play objectives

2) Adjust the "boringness" factor of some of the objectives to make kinda HOP kinda DMers more likely to actually do said objective

3) Accept that DMing is going to increasingly become the norm in regs (midbies and lowbies, who knows) as many of the threads in this section have been discussing.

Not being able to filter out maps you dont like isnt justification for playing them wrong. Leave if you dont like em, simple. No penalty here, no problem.

I agree there should be one, dont get me wrong, but literally none of this is licence or justification to blow off the map itself.

Narcos! You got to watch Narcos on Netflix it's great imo. Watch Deadwood if you have not yet it was on HBO but you can maybe find it elsewhere now... of course watch GoT if you have not.

 

Goliath with Billy Bob Thornton is decent too, on Amazon Prime. Another truly great series is The Boys on Amazon Prime. Only one season so far, but it is in the process of having the second season out soon! The Boys series is great I can't speak high enough, I guess it surprised me how good it is.

I watched the original Narcos on Netflix. Now there seems to be other versions, which aren’t as good. We don’t have Deadwood in Australia. I’ve seen all of GoT.

I just signed up to amazon prime 2 days ago and I’ve already watched all of Star Trek Picard (which is awesome) and I’m half way through season 1 of Jack Ryan. I’ll have a look at The Boys after that. I still have 8-10 days of isolation to go.

I watched the original Narcos on Netflix. Now there seems to be other versions, which aren’t as good. We don’t have Deadwood in Australia. I’ve seen all of GoT.

I just signed up to amazon prime 2 days ago and I’ve already watched all of Star Trek Picard (which is awesome) and I’m half way through season 1 of Jack Ryan. I’ll have a look at The Boys after that. I still have 8-10 days of isolation to go.

The Boys really entertained me! I was surely not expecting it to be that good but wow, the character's all are so well developed I loved it.

The Boys really entertained me! I was surely not expecting it to be that good but wow, the character's all are so well developed I loved it.

Finished both Seasons of a Jack Ryan in 2 days. I’ll start The Boys tonight

Edit: ok, started watching The Boys and it’s pretty good. I’m up to episode 7.

Love Karl Urban’s English accent. At first I thought he was trying to do a really bad Aussie accent. LoL.