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Pay2Win Space Missions ???


Dirtyshadow

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The way to properly interpret this is: "Bummer, we tried to extract more $ from our customers, but we got our hand slapped in the process since they're smarter than we had thought...guess we have to change this now."

 

You do realize that empirically there's reason to believe that if TOR went full p2win, they'd end up positive because of the additional revenue from such a system versus the number of people that get upset and leave?

 

If they decided "To hell with it, screw consumer opinion, as much money as possible!" true across the board p2win would be their best option. This thread(which is largely people just debating "What is p2win" from well under a hundred people) is hardly a consumer base outcry substantial enough to warrant a change in direction should they actually be intending to go true p2win.

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KUDOS!

 

I'm glad to see that our BIOWARE team is communicating with everyone and looking into the solution.

 

The internal grind for Fleet Comm's is way out in left field with reality. Using a lot of the same high end materials for PVE gear might have been a bad idea.

 

Remove all the Molecular Stabilizers from the Schematics and cut the Cartel Coin prices by about 50% and you might be right on track.

 

OR.. every SUB gets all of the Space Upgrades 7 for FREE. (I'll be checking the mail soon) THAT would have been the right approach. :)

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Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

 

Wait, so how exactly monetizing at SWTOR works? Guy in charge of it just looks at all avaible stuff, decides "Oh, this would surely sell great in shop! Since players can get it by other means let's slap low price there, and let moeny flow in." and nobody nowhere even checks it, pretty much allowing such cases like this one to happen?

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Hi everyone,

 

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

 

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

 

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

 

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

 

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

 

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

 

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

That is NOT AT ALL reassuring...That makes it sound like the cartel market is going to start becoming a way to get actual gear that matters. I am EXTREMELY troubled by this comment and I hope you will clarify.

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Wait, so how exactly monetizing at SWTOR works? Guy in charge of it just looks at all avaible stuff, decides "Oh, this would surely sell great in shop! Since players can get it by other means let's slap low price there, and let moeny flow in." and nobody nowhere even checks it, pretty much allowing such cases like this one to happen?

 

Something like that must have happened - as the dev post said, there was a "miscommunication". You know; business talk for "Big **** Up".

 

The ship items were not in the cartel Shop on the PTS at any point. Who made the call? We'll never know. Let's just hope they know better next time.

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You forget, it's no longer truly Bioware. The empty shell remains, but the heart and soul of Bioware is all long gone, replaced by EA yes-men and beancounters.

 

Well, I hope I'm not the only one realizing that this is pretty much the description for a Buffy-style vampire. Which is super-appropriate and funny.

 

Or maybe I'm sleepy and dehydrated.

Edited by JediMB
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It's lost in the vastness of this thread, but I said that I think most people upset, like me, aren't so upset because of the space ship items. It's mostly because I feel we're on the slippery slope to selling other end-game items on the Cartel Market and that's not what I want to be a part of. If they stop here, then I'll be okay with it. But I would prefer them not to sell even ship upgrades on the Market. And I definitely will unsub if they push beyond this.

 

That's about where I stand as well. If it does go to end game pvp and pve, I'll just unsub and stick to playing storylines as preferred status.

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Agreed. Changed my sub to month-to-month so I'm no longer locked in. Sad because I like this game and actually enjoy the grind of end-gear raiding.

 

Make the CM all cosmetic, fun stuff and if you must mid level gear. But leave the BIS to heavy raiding and PVPing. They've already proven that people are willing to spend boatloads of real money on cosmetic items so just keep milking that cow and let the raiders and PVPers stay happy with our progression.

 

As an aside pretty sure they could put an al black saber in or white saber/black core and people will pay $20 bucks for it.

 

 

Couldn't have said it better.
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BIOWARE Lessons Learned - Cartel Market 101

  • Do NOT Sell high end gear that gives the image of Play to Win or money Grab.
  • Read comments & Feedback from ALL your players and MMO communities at large.

 

Grinding is FINE, but you basically forced people to BUY from Cartel Market in order to PLAY the new missions or they spend 2-3 months building up enough materials to make all the Grade 7 Stuff. (Which has a crazy number of high end materials I would rather use to upgrade my PVE gear)

 

It was like "Here is this cool set of space missions, but you can't play unless you have thousands of Fleet Commendations or just shell out $15 to us in cash and we will give you them instead." - Game on!

Edited by dscount
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One could make a very strong argument that it doesn't, as long as there are non-cash avenues to acquire the same gear. The exception is PVP, where players are in direct competition with each other.

 

That's how people in TOR's targeted player base naturally react to the selling of top end pv/pve gear. In all probability, a substantial portion of the population would quit the game should it become straightforward end game p2win. Unfortunately, in all probability a straightforward end game p2win model is more profitable given an MMO drops below a certain population threshhold. If end game p2win comes, a lot of long timers and new players alike will leave. The game will almost certainly survive for years afterwards, but there's no denying that a substantial group of people would be displeased with the model change.

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That's how people in TOR's targeted player base naturally react to the selling of top end pv/pve gear. In all probability, a substantial portion of the population would quit the game should it become straightforward end game p2win. Unfortunately, in all probability a straightforward end game p2win model is more profitable given an MMO drops below a certain population threshhold. If end game p2win comes, a lot of long timers and new players alike will leave. The game will almost certainly survive for years afterwards, but there's no denying that a substantial group of people would be displeased with the model change.

 

My hope is that they will take the approach of ensuring a completely level playing field in PVP, so no cash purchases of any type there. At the same time, I hope that they offer as many options as possible on the PVE side. Not necessarily selling the best gear for cash, but having a good selection of gear available to reduce the grind for those of us who dislike it.

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Hi everyone,

 

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

 

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

 

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

 

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

 

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

 

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

 

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

Translation - we thought you cash monkeys wouldnt complain so much about it given how garbage the on rails space missions are, now we have been forced to make this post saying we will do something so appease your fears when in fact we wont do anything. Buy more cartel packs!!

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Translation - we thought you cash monkeys wouldnt complain so much about it given how garbage the on rails space missions are, now we have been forced to make this post saying we will do something so appease your fears when in fact we wont do anything. Buy more cartel packs!!

 

What is that language was that translated into? Cynicese? :D

 

I think they have been prodded into actually doing something about it. Time will tell though.

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Do you by any chance think they will make changes becouse of their good will?

 

Well it is Christmas...or Life Day...or something isn't it? :p

 

No, what we witnessed here is a replay of how the F2P players got thier extra quickbars. Good old fashioned pissing and moaning. Housewives have been doing it for generations with great success. Nice to see it work to my advantage for once...:)

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Hi everyone,

 

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

 

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

 

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

 

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

 

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

 

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

 

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

If this bolded part happens, I will unsubscribe from this game and never purchase another Bioware or EA game again. Please clarify your intent with this sentence.

Edited by Icebergy
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Hi everyone,

 

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

 

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

 

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

 

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

 

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

 

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

 

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

 

The disparity is THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON THE CARTEL MARKET TO BEGIN WITH!

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