Jump to content

Enrage Timers Counter Productive?


Recommended Posts

I want to start a discussion on what people thing of Enrage timers.

 

Are they Counter Productive? Meaning, do they force people to Min / Max their character, switch to a spec they wouldn't normally do just to make sure they have enough damage to kill some boss?

 

I personally think they take enjoyment out of the game when every single boss mod has one. I can understand one or two having one but not everything being in existence gets stronger the longer a fight is. Being forced to change specs to get that extra bit of DPS, or Damage Mitigation or to be able to heal 5% better is well, stupid.

 

Opinions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 133
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Enrage timers are there to push people forward. But also to lock that content down to the gear needed. Too many people go in these instances or operations with low end gear, expecting to clear the content. they hit the enraged timer. then come on here and moan disregarding their rotation or gear needs some work.

 

What I dont like is no difference in mechnics between the difficulty modes. Adding an enraged timer is not enough

Edited by DigitalPrime
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should be using the best possible spec anyway. All enrage timers do is make sure that the raiders are somewhat geared.

 

I disagree, you should be using a spec you enjoy to play. Even if that spec is somewhat suboptimal, it should still be possible to do any non-raid content (for hardmode and nightmare OPS I can see your point, but those aren't meant for more casual playstyles anyway).

 

To answer the OP... I see them as counter-productive, at least if every boss in hardmode flashpoints has them. The people in need of the gear from those flashpoints will be the ones most likely to hit the enrage timer, which can be discouraging. If they're going to stick with enrage timers on all bosses in hm flashpoints, they should at least be slightly more lenient.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, they are not counter productive.

 

If you cannot produce a group capable of beating the boss prior to the enrage timer, then you need to do some gearing via HM FP or make some team adjustments. Anyone can walk in and spend 2 hours on a boss and eventually kill it. This is to challenge you to do so in a timely manner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, everyone should have the exact same spec all the time just because it is the "best" spec?

 

I think that's rather boring. I would rather see a that Madness Sorc play lightning Sorc if he wants to, instead of being forced to Madness / Hybrid because it has 100 more dps according to the theory crafters.

 

Gear checks shouldn't be needed. If a team of people is good enough and well coordinated enough, player skill should matter more then if they are wearing a set of armor that makes their toon look the way they want (especially on an RP server).

 

If they don't have the dps but do have the stamina to spend 30 minutes on a boss fight, let them.

 

Why should everything be cookie cutter? Same Spec, Same Gear, same problems as WoW and every other MMO. It gets boring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree, you should be using a spec you enjoy to play. Even if that spec is somewhat suboptimal, it should still be possible to do any non-raid content (for hardmode and nightmare OPS I can see your point, but those aren't meant for more casual playstyles anyway).

 

To answer the OP... I see them as counter-productive, at least if every boss in hardmode flashpoints has them. The people in need of the gear from those flashpoints will be the ones most likely to hit the enrage timer, which can be discouraging. If they're going to stick with enrage timers on all bosses in hm flashpoints, they should at least be slightly more lenient.

 

Why would anyone want to be subpar? Either you know how to play your class or you don't. Choosing a bad spec makes you a bad player. And that is your choice and you are welcome to do so, but the content should not be gauged for bad players IMO. What challenge would be left for the good players?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, everyone should have the exact same spec all the time just because it is the "best" spec?

 

Absolutely not, there is no spec requirement only a DPS requirement. You need to ensure that you are capable of generating sufficient damage to down the boss in the allotted time. If you cant, you don't deserve the rewards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, they are not counter productive.

 

If you cannot produce a group capable of beating the boss prior to the enrage timer, then you need to do some gearing via HM FP or make some team adjustments. Anyone can walk in and spend 2 hours on a boss and eventually kill it. This is to challenge you to do so in a timely manner.

 

My Ops group has completed Hard Mode Eternity Vault a few times and We are starting on Hard Mode Karagga. We are not having issues with enraged times, it is just something occurred to me. We tend to have some people who Min Max that end up picking up slack for the one or two people who don't, it seems to end up putting more stress on the Min Maxer. We could tell the people who would rather enjoy to the game to switch specs and exactly what gear they are allowed to wear but it seems to me that would scare them off, and we like them as people, and they are our friends. Why would we force them to do something they don't want?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All meters, threat meters, dps meters, etc take away from the game, like putting training wheels on your motorcycle. If you need an easier game, go play one, don’t dumb this one down.

 

No- they are like speedometer.

 

"Sorry officer, I had no idea I was speeding. You see I don't have a speedometer on my motorcycle; so can't tell when I am above the speed limit"

 

 

Meters just report what you are doing. They don't tell you what to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would anyone want to be subpar? Either you know how to play your class or you don't. Choosing a bad spec makes you a bad player. And that is your choice and you are welcome to do so, but the content should not be gauged for bad players IMO. What challenge would be left for the good players?

 

Enjoyment. What if I like they way my Lightning Sorc works more then using the DOTs of a Madness spec.

 

The game should be played because it is a game and you should get enjoyment out of it. You should not have to be a lemming to push content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, they are not counter productive.

 

If you cannot produce a group capable of beating the boss prior to the enrage timer, then you need to do some gearing via HM FP or make some team adjustments. Anyone can walk in and spend 2 hours on a boss and eventually kill it. This is to challenge you to do so in a timely manner.

 

The problem here is that bosses in hm flashpoints have these timers as well and some of them are pretty hard to beat for a relatively fresh level 50. Gearing up that way isn't as easy as some people try to make it, especially not as many boss fights are highly unfavorable for melee DPS classes.

 

Why would anyone want to be subpar? Either you know how to play your class or you don't. Choosing a bad spec makes you a bad player. And that is your choice and you are welcome to do so, but the content should not be gauged for bad players IMO. What challenge would be left for the good players?

 

What's the point in allowing different specs then? People should be able to play how they want, not be forced into cookie-cutter specs for non-raid content.

Edited by Kendaric
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LotRO raids didnt have enrage timers for Tier 2 (HM's), yet they are still challenging. Take a look at there Lt fight, or the Blind One fight. They require presice coordination and a higher level of skill to complete, without being a DPS race.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Enjoyment. What if I like they way my Lightning Sorc works more then using the DOTs of a Madness spec.

 

The game should be played because it is a game and you should get enjoyment out of it. You should not have to be a lemming to push content.

 

That is an issue of class balance. Lightning should be as viable as madness, if not then this is the issue, not enrage timers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Enjoyment. What if I like they way my Lightning Sorc works more then using the DOTs of a Madness spec.

 

The game should be played because it is a game and you should get enjoyment out of it. You should not have to be a lemming to push content.

 

You don't have any experience in team games. It's like playing soccer and doing only long driven solo runs instead of passing the ball around. Not everyone is a Messi.

 

In team sports, the fun element comes from a victory achieved as a collective event. If that means sacrificing personal preferences for what the coach/manager needs, then so be it. As long as the team wins, your contribution is worth its weight in gold.

 

Stick to solo sports if you want fancy individualization.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would anyone want to be subpar? Either you know how to play your class or you don't. Choosing a bad spec makes you a bad player. And that is your choice and you are welcome to do so, but the content should not be gauged for bad players IMO. What challenge would be left for the good players?

 

It's not about good and bad players it's about an absolute wall that simply determines gear and nothing else.

 

I could be the best player in the world but if I am wearing greens I will never hit the DPS needed.

 

The counter point is that I could be a terrible player, but spend time grinding gear (which is very easy), following a rotation and spec that I looked up on a webpage (without understanding why) I will clear the content.

 

Like I said it has nothing to do with good and bad all it has to do with is the right classes in the Op, the correct gear, the correct spec and the correct rotation and a monkey could do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LotRO raids didnt have enrage timers for Tier 2 (HM's), yet they are still challenging. Take a look at there Lt fight, or the Blind One fight. They require presice coordination and a higher level of skill to complete, without being a DPS race.

 

 

why bring any dps at all then? just bring tanks and healers you can never lose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not about good and bad players it's about an absolute wall that simply determines gear and nothing else.

 

I could be the best player in the world but if I am wearing greens I will never hit the DPS needed.

 

The counter point is that I could be a terrible player, but spend time grinding gear (which is very easy), following a rotation and spec that I looked up on a webpage (without understanding why) I will clear the content.

 

Like I said it has nothing to do with good and bad all it has to do with is the right classes in the Op, the correct gear, the correct spec and the correct rotation and a monkey could do it.

 

So you are saying a monkey can get the right gear, spec and rotation but you cannot?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Ops group has completed Hard Mode Eternity Vault a few times and We are starting on Hard Mode Karagga. We are not having issues with enraged times, it is just something occurred to me. We tend to have some people who Min Max that end up picking up slack for the one or two people who don't, it seems to end up putting more stress on the Min Maxer. We could tell the people who would rather enjoy to the game to switch specs and exactly what gear they are allowed to wear but it seems to me that would scare them off, and we like them as people, and they are our friends. Why would we force them to do something they don't want?

 

Put it to them this way: How much fun is wiping?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't have any experience in team games. It's like playing soccer and doing only long driven solo runs instead of passing the ball around. Not everyone is a Messi.

 

In team sports, the fun element comes from a victory achieved as a collective event. If that means sacrificing personal preferences for what the coach/manager needs, then so be it. As long as the team wins, your contribution is worth its weight in gold.

 

Stick to solo sports if you want fancy individualization.

 

But that is not what happens in raids, the way it works now is that you can take a Sunday league team give them the right kit and they will win. If you take a Premiership team and send them out with a bad kit (in game analogy) they will be beaten by the Sunday league team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But that is not what happens in raids, the way it works now is that you can take a Sunday league team give them the right kit and they will win. If you take a Premiership team and send them out with a bad kit (in game analogy) they will be beaten by the Sunday league team.

 

Not true at all. I recently saw a well geared (90% culumi on everyone) raid fail at a normal op and not meet enrage timers, because they were bad at their classes. Gear did not save them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They serve a legit purpose I wish they had more of a visual queue rather than an invisible number that you cannot see until the wipe or someone with a stop watch calls out.

 

Mechanics of the encounter should create a sense of urgency not the rage clock.

 

If a boss is meant to be a gear/spec check that is cool but have the laser slowly creeping up the table to James Bond's nether regions or a fuse that will blow the cave down.... or something else that people much more creative than me can figure out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...