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Transgender Representation in Swtor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Transgender Representation in Swtor

SaveTheMonkeys's Avatar


SaveTheMonkeys
08.15.2019 , 03:56 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by WaveRun View Post
Representing ALL PEOPLE is NOT too far
Agreed.

MadDutchman's Avatar


MadDutchman
08.15.2019 , 05:23 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by WaveRun View Post
Representing ALL PEOPLE is NOT too far
But we aren't representing ALL people now are we? Such a thing is impossible. Unless of course you are just talking about your select group of "special" people, which itself opens up a big can of worms.

And what good is a representative if they are just a token one-dimension waste of time and space that are just insulting to the people they are supposed to be representing?


I still haven't seen anyone in this thread come up with a real explanation of HOW this could be done without just being obnoxious about it.

The devil is in the details.
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WaveRun's Avatar


WaveRun
08.17.2019 , 10:15 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by MadDutchman View Post
But we aren't representing ALL people now are we? Such a thing is impossible. Unless of course you are just talking about your select group of "special" people, which itself opens up a big can of worms.

And what good is a representative if they are just a token one-dimension waste of time and space that are just insulting to the people they are supposed to be representing?


I still haven't seen anyone in this thread come up with a real explanation of HOW this could be done without just being obnoxious about it.

The devil is in the details.

Where did you get the word special from ? You are saying that people being represented is a waste of time and space, yet somehow insulting at the same time ? What's insulting is NOT seeing representation, hence the entire point of this thread from what anyone can garner (even yourself it seems ?)

There are some good educational materials to find online too about the subject and BioWare would need to read up (if they haven't or don't know someone keen on the subject) in order to it the best way that brings a good story to the game and furthers the inclusiveness of the Star Wars world.

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MadDutchman's Avatar


MadDutchman
08.18.2019 , 02:50 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by WaveRun View Post
Where did you get the word special from ? You are saying that people being represented is a waste of time and space, yet somehow insulting at the same time ? What's insulting is NOT seeing representation, hence the entire point of this thread from what anyone can garner (even yourself it seems ?)

There are some good educational materials to find online too about the subject and BioWare would need to read up (if they haven't or don't know someone keen on the subject) in order to it the best way that brings a good story to the game and furthers the inclusiveness of the Star Wars world.
I was using quotes in this case to emphasize the subjectivity of the idea, not to quote you personally. The point is that there are an impossible number of different people to represent here, how can we make it a focus to represent them all? It becomes more feasible to represent only a select group of people, however that opens up a big can of worms (notably, who gets to decide which set of socially/politically sensitive get represented)


Ok, somewhat ambiguously phrased on my part I suppose, what I mean by "what's the point if..." is that if all we get is token one-dimensional characters out of their attempt to be inclusive, what's the point? It's just insulting.

To take an example from my own life, I'm legally blind. This means getting a job is extremely difficult due to the simple fact most employers see it as a risk. Notable exceptions are government and large corporations (particularly banks) who specifically hire people with disabilities, not because they are (or may not be) just as qualified for the job, but simply so the can have PR brownie points. In other words, token employees. On the one hand, they are providing employment for a grossly under employed segment of the population, but on the other, it's infuriating to think you are just there so some corporate exec making millions a year can show off their inclusivity credentials. Should we congratulate them because they are doing a little good for all the wrong reasons, and propagating a negative culture to the wider industry in the process?
Coming back here, if BW were to introduce a trans character (somehow) for the sole purpose of demonstrating how they can be inclusive, how would a trans person likely respond? "Thanks BW for representing me!" or "FU BW, there's more to trans people than being trans!" Like PR happy employers, why should we congratulate them for doing something for all the wrong reasons? When motives are skewed, so are the results. i for one do not want to condone this.


As for educational materials, citation needed, filtering by game engine limitations and the not quite parallel fantasy culture that this game inhabits. How could it be done properly?
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DarkKnightShado
08.20.2019 , 07:20 AM | #55
Can we just leave RL out of the game please? I am a straight white guy who plays female characters because I like too, whats the big deal? There are plenty of options to modify your character to look how you want it too so if you want a Trans character all you need to do is design him/her them/they that way. Why is there such a need to force a set of views on others playing this or any other game?
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ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
08.20.2019 , 07:34 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkKnightShado View Post
Why is there such a need to force a set of views on others playing this or any other game?
The same justification was used, and continues to be used, during conversations regarding SSR/SGR. Why am I forced to have heteronormative views forced on me?
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Lhancelot
08.20.2019 , 11:08 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by gintheripper View Post
Hi I'd like to start off by saying thanks to the swtor staff and community for their great representation of lgbt characters and choices however speaking as a trans person I am still holding out hoping for the inclusion of a character even a non romanceable one that more directly represents myself and other individuals like me I know it is a bit of a longshot but still I remain forever in hope as I am a huge star war fan and especially a fan of swtor please share your two cents
I just wish they offered more options in character creation, they offer only a few now, which is better than none granted but they could do a lot better.

More makeup options for men, and allow clothes to be worn by everyone not make the clothes specific according to male or female. Also make more hairstyles available that are wearable by all and not dictated by male/female.

I realize your post was regarding companions more than our own characters but your request requires far more coding and money, voice acting, etc. My request would be far more easy to do imo.

I tried hard to create a feminine looking trans who I had a great story in mind for but I really struggled to find the look I wanted. Also, I was left having to pick a human because the alien races have even less options available.
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
I've lost more SWTOR friends to excessive grind than to any other factor! Too many game companies think more grind = more player engagement = more player satisfaction - it doesn't. RNG is lazy, RNG is cheap, RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
08.20.2019 , 11:10 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by ceryxp View Post
The same justification was used, and continues to be used, during conversations regarding SSR/SGR. Why am I forced to have heteronormative views forced on me?
Expecting others to empathize and put themselves in your shoes can sometimes be an impossibility but good on you for reversing the situation.

Sadly most people are incapable of seeing anything from any other perspective but out their own lens.
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
I've lost more SWTOR friends to excessive grind than to any other factor! Too many game companies think more grind = more player engagement = more player satisfaction - it doesn't. RNG is lazy, RNG is cheap, RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.

WaveRun's Avatar


WaveRun
08.20.2019 , 04:10 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkKnightShado View Post
Why is there such a need to force a set of views on others playing this or any other game?
Except no one is forcing you to. The option would be there if you wanted to. Right now it's not, and as such BW is actually pushing people to only choose between two binary choices, so your argument is actually reversed. Gender is not binary.

There are many more flaws in your questions but other people have already brought them to light. Not going to beat a dog when they're already down.

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Ardrossan
09.02.2019 , 12:23 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by FlameYOL View Post
Nope, quite an interesting species. Something similar happens to Argonians in The Elder Scrolls saga, they're able to change their gender through a ritual with the Hist Trees.
It must be a common trope in scifi. My go to for this trope is Ursula K. Leguin's The Left Hand of Darkness.
Quote: Originally Posted by Mubrak View Post

How would you represent gender, though? Medicine should be advanced enough so reassignment surgery should be perfect and only a matter of being able to afford it, so we are really only talking about those embracing their non-binarity, which again isn't really something you would know outside of a relation.

That guy dating a tentacle-headed alien should be beyond caring about the naughty bits of their androgynous looking neighbor. Same for the "humanity first" dork. you're human, that means you're his friend in this galaxy of freaks. There are no gender-roles to challenge either, nobody raises an eyebrow at a burly female in combat armor. Bearded guy(?) wearing a ball gown? Meet my mate the giant slug and her husband the green bunny rabbit.


In the end it depends on whether you want to see western society's transgender issues mirrored in the game universe, or whether you want to see them demonstrated as non-issues, because diversity is the golden theme here.
This neatly sums up the major problems. It would have to be done well and I don't think BW is the team to tackle it. We'd end up with tomboys. However, as a token gesture, I'd be fine with Lhance's suggestion: if BW unlocked jewelry, cosmetics, and female wear to both genders. That would be a simple change they could stealth-add.

And they should stealth-add it because then it wouldn't be virtue signalling, and more to the point, wouldn't make all the incels in this thread freak out because BW is pandering to the woke apparatchiks that secretly rule over us.

The idea of switching genders in sufficiently advanced space-faring societies also reminds me of the Culture Series. That would make a great game setting.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
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