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Ranged companions fixed!!!


Pirana's Avatar


Pirana
07.19.2019 , 05:08 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by ufarax View Post
Fixed this is my opinion of the fix. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................................

I am leveling my Consular the story is meh nut I like the DPS. Enter the companion fix, I like to stand at max range as a sage, early levles 30 , later 35 meters or is it feet. I download the patch and bring my sage to Belsavis heroics, I hang back at max range activate force quake and my companion run to the enemy, I think about 15 meters/feet from the enemy. That ruins the emersion, I find I let my companion die just to teach it a lesson.

I remember 1.0 when you could toggle all your companion abilities on and off, I will not unsub but this is a complete mess. And the white knights are defending the fix. Wait a minute I got it "this is a surprise new mechanic". I would say more but I just just,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,
In your first paragraph you're mentioning how your companion is 'running to the enemy'. What did you want your comp to do, kick back have a smoke, drink a beer, let you do all the work? Because that's what was happening before, well... The game is designed so that when you take damage or you give your comp an order, the companion attacks or follows that order. Regarding the meter range, that's also gonna depend on the comp you're using and its weapon.

I would love see to an explanation on how you feel it's a 'complete mess' compared to before the fix when the companions either wouldn't attack, get stuck behind walls, randomly stop firing, now that was a mess.

This has nothing to do with being a 'white knight', it's common sense.
The Journey Is Often Greater Than The Destination

ufarax's Avatar


ufarax
07.20.2019 , 02:06 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Pirana View Post
In your first paragraph you're mentioning how your companion is 'running to the enemy'. What did you want your comp to do, kick back have a smoke, drink a beer, let you do all the work? Because that's what was happening before, well... The game is designed so that when you take damage or you give your comp an order, the companion attacks or follows that order. Regarding the meter range, that's also gonna depend on the comp you're using and its weapon.

I would love see to an explanation on how you feel it's a 'complete mess' compared to before the fix when the companions either wouldn't attack, get stuck behind walls, randomly stop firing, now that was a mess.

This has nothing to do with being a 'white knight', it's common sense.

I do not want my ranged/healer companion to run to the enemy. I want them to stand at range and heal.




"That's it man, game over man, game over"

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.20.2019 , 02:20 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by ufarax View Post
I do not want my ranged/healer companion to run to the enemy. I want them to stand at range and heal.




"That's it man, game over man, game over"
So basically what you’re asking for is a stay command.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
07.20.2019 , 03:02 AM | #24
While we're on the subject of a Stay command, it does occur to me, I've had times when it would be convenient to have something like that. Like when trying to LOS a group of mobs around a corner. Usually the only way to ensure companion won't attack (and this was the case even with the bug) was to put them on passive and then tell them to attack once the mobs are about finished rounding the corner.

A "Go Here" command would be nice as well for pretty much the same reason. Like put them on Stay, then Go Here (around a corner), and then pull. Then put them back on Follow when the pull is over. That sort of thing. More intuitive than having to swap between Passive and Attack, imo, and less management in mid-combat.
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Phazonfreak's Avatar


Phazonfreak
07.20.2019 , 03:10 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
So basically what you’re asking for is a stay command.
yes, that is it I assume. He wants the ranged companions to be as efficient and competent as a ranged player character, which will never happen.

The problem is that if they implemented a stay command it would lead to many instances where your companion gets out of range for his abilities and just stands there doing nothing when you and the enemy group is moving away just slightly. You would have to micromanage the hell out of it or BioWare would have to increase the ability range of all companions, which in turn would make them even more overpowered than they already are. I think both options would lead to even more complaints.

I could understand the complaint if companions were as weak as they were before they had redone them into the power houses that they are right now.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
A "Go Here" command would be nice as well for pretty much the same reason. Like put them on Stay, then Go Here (around a corner), and then pull. Then put them back on Follow when the pull is over. That sort of thing. More intuitive than having to swap between Passive and Attack, imo, and less management in mid-combat.
How is what you describe less management than swapping between passive and attack? Quite the opposite.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
07.20.2019 , 03:46 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Phazonfreak View Post
How is what you describe less management than swapping between passive and attack? Quite the opposite.
"More intuitive and less management in mid-combat."

With passive/attack as part of an LOS pull, you need to put them back on attack in mid-combat while watching everything else. With commands actually built for scenarios like that, you can do it all outside of combat, so no pressure, and more intuitive. For example, putting a companion on passive means they won't run off to attack, but you have to make sure to do it before combat starts. If they've already aggroed and then you LOS, even if you put them on passive, they'll come to you, but not necessarily behind the wall. So now you've got a companion getting pelted and they're doing nothing.

Being able to use passive for something like that is tolerable, but it's messy.

Also worth noting, a "Go Here" would make most sense being designed so that it automatically switches them to Stay rather than Follow (cause otherwise they'd just run back to you as soon as they reach their destination). Which would simplify it to one command rather than two as I initially described it. Go Here behind wall, then pull.

For further intuitiveness...ness. They could have companion switch back to Follow upon exiting combat (perhaps as a toggle in game options).

I mean, I'm just scratching the surface here and throwing out off the top of my head. There are all sorts of ways to make it more intuitive to manage them and expand on how they can be managed. It would just require some fiddling with options to give people more room to fit how they play (and of course, the coding for it, which may be "the rest of the _______ owl").
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Pirana's Avatar


Pirana
07.20.2019 , 06:17 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by ufarax View Post
I do not want my ranged/healer companion to run to the enemy. I want them to stand at range and heal.

"That's it man, game over man, game over"
Unless you've encountered a new bug, the companions are running within distance of attacking. If your ranged comp is running right into the fray versus staying back to some degree, then you're probably bugged or their weapon has almost no range to it. But the companions are performing as they always have in the past, move into position, or range in this case, and attack. As mentioned by others, it appears what you want is a 'stay' command, or something to that affect, which is a whole different issue and has the potential to have even more micromanaging involved due to issues that have already been mentioned in one of the more recent posts. I don't see the devs investing the time to make the companions savvy enough to manage themselves without our input.

If the devs want to implement a 'stay' command, then I'm all in, give it a shot.

The Journey Is Often Greater Than The Destination

Phazonfreak's Avatar


Phazonfreak
07.20.2019 , 07:21 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
"More intuitive and less management in mid-combat."

With passive/attack as part of an LOS pull, you need to put them back on attack in mid-combat while watching everything else. With commands actually built for scenarios like that, you can do it all outside of combat, so no pressure, and more intuitive. For example, putting a companion on passive means they won't run off to attack, but you have to make sure to do it before combat starts. If they've already aggroed and then you LOS, even if you put them on passive, they'll come to you, but not necessarily behind the wall. So now you've got a companion getting pelted and they're doing nothing.

Being able to use passive for something like that is tolerable, but it's messy.

Also worth noting, a "Go Here" would make most sense being designed so that it automatically switches them to Stay rather than Follow (cause otherwise they'd just run back to you as soon as they reach their destination). Which would simplify it to one command rather than two as I initially described it. Go Here behind wall, then pull.

For further intuitiveness...ness. They could have companion switch back to Follow upon exiting combat (perhaps as a toggle in game options).

I mean, I'm just scratching the surface here and throwing out off the top of my head. There are all sorts of ways to make it more intuitive to manage them and expand on how they can be managed. It would just require some fiddling with options to give people more room to fit how they play (and of course, the coding for it, which may be "the rest of the _______ owl").
Sure, there are a lot of ways in which the AI could be improved upon and we could get far more options to micromanage them, but I think it is not worth it really. With the latest fix they are back to being a useful extension of the player character's abilities in casual PvE combat and that is all they need to be. They are not supposed to be a substitute for a real player.

Coding AI is one of the most frustrating, error-prone and time-consuming things ever and we all know that BioWare does not have the manpower to pull off an AI upgrade whether it is inherent behaviour or player interaction (which is most certainly the reason why the fix took so long).

ufarax's Avatar


ufarax
07.20.2019 , 08:36 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Pirana View Post
Unless you've encountered a new bug, the companions are running within distance of attacking. If your ranged comp is running right into the fray versus staying back to some degree, then you're probably bugged or their weapon has almost no range to it. But the companions are performing as they always have in the past, move into position, or range in this case, and attack. As mentioned by others, it appears what you want is a 'stay' command, or something to that affect, which is a whole different issue and has the potential to have even more micromanaging involved due to issues that have already been mentioned in one of the more recent posts. I don't see the devs investing the time to make the companions savvy enough to manage themselves without our input.

If the devs want to implement a 'stay' command, then I'm all in, give it a shot.

You are incorrect. A companion range is what....30 meters/feet. I understand that if I attack at 35 meters/feet the companion would move to within range of the enemy, so he/she would move 5 feet/meters ahead of the player. As it stands now if I am a ranged DPS and I stand at 30 meters/feet from the enemy the range healer companion will run ahead to 15 meters/feet from the enemy, that does not make sense. I have been playing since beta nonstop to present and this is not how companions have always functioned. Companions were broken when the devs decided that companions can serve all roles healer/dps/tank, I am not looking for a stay command. When this game launched companions did not rush ahead as they do now. I am not requesting anything new.

Pirana's Avatar


Pirana
07.20.2019 , 01:14 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by ufarax View Post
You are incorrect. A companion range is what....30 meters/feet. I understand that if I attack at 35 meters/feet the companion would move to within range of the enemy, so he/she would move 5 feet/meters ahead of the player. As it stands now if I am a ranged DPS and I stand at 30 meters/feet from the enemy the range healer companion will run ahead to 15 meters/feet from the enemy, that does not make sense. I have been playing since beta nonstop to present and this is not how companions have always functioned. Companions were broken when the devs decided that companions can serve all roles healer/dps/tank, I am not looking for a stay command. When this game launched companions did not rush ahead as they do now. I am not requesting anything new.
Again, that depends on the companion you're using and their weapon. Some of the ranged comps are of the Scoundrel/Operative type and their weapon range is well under thirty meters. I'm not having any issues with the ranged companions running anywhere near the npc's, they stay at a distance and fire. Hypothetically, lets say you're right, which I have yet to experience, and they do indeed move to what you're saying, then that's still plenty of distance to not get destroyed by said npc's. Unless your companion is of the tank type, and you're not pulling everything around you, you shouldn't be having any issues with your companion getting destroyed at range. So far you're the only one I've heard of having this issue. That's not to say it isn't happening, but I know first hand, from my point of view, this is simply not the case.
The Journey Is Often Greater Than The Destination